Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

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October82

Well-Known Member
We don’t believe in contact tracing in this country. We have privacy rights. The government shouldn’t be asking us where we are going and what we are doing. So if we really aren’t planning to trace and avoid hot spots then the alternative is to let er rip.

It's a persistent myth that contact tracing means the government knowing where we are going and what we are doing. The system that the tech companies developed is a good example of how contact tracing can pose little privacy risk.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Yes. I’m a believer in masks.

Now if you could point to where I attribute the recession to recent mask wearing....

I hope it’s the case. But with the backlog I don’t know if anyone can be certain that that is the reason or not. But I believe if we all keep on with the masks it will go down. Would love to see a scientific study on it, which in a few weeks will be more conclusive. At that point I’ll come on here and say “because mask usage was up the stats declined”

Stay tuned....
When there’s a decline in cases in CA and TX and AZ and even FL there are people who will give zero credit to the fact that more people are wearing masks. They will say it just burned itself out. The truth is we don’t know for sure, but it sure seems like masks go a long way towards preventing spread.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
It's a persistent myth that contact tracing means the government knowing where we are going and what we are doing. The system that the tech companies developed is a good example of how contact tracing can pose little privacy risk.
It doesn’t stop people from refusing to cooperate. I’ve seen numerous stories of people refusing to talk to the department of health or refusing to give the names of people they were in contact with. People are dug in.
 

October82

Well-Known Member
When there’s a decline in cases in CA and TX and AZ and even FL there are people who will give zero credit to the fact that more people are wearing masks. They will say it just burned itself out. The truth is we don’t know for sure, but it sure seems like masks go a long way towards preventing spread.

Masks are definitely part of the story, but it would also be interesting to look at the finer data about this. If we look back at what happened in March, people largely intuitively understood and engaged in social distancing prior to public health orders. It may be the case that something similar is occurring now as well.
 

October82

Well-Known Member
It doesn’t stop people from refusing to cooperate. I’ve seen numerous stories of people refusing to talk to the department of health or refusing to give the names of people they were in contact with. People are dug in.

I don't disagree - the issue became politicized and people aren't well educated about how any of this works (or could work). That's a poor combination for effective mitigation.
 

mmascari

Well-Known Member
We did the shutdown experiment. It caused harm in my opinion.
My stance is that government mandated lockdowns do more harm then good. They aren’t a blunt tool, they are a bomb that misses its target.
What I am not for, is blanket lockdowns, government choosing what’s essential and what’s not essential. We panicked in March. Let’s not repeat the same mistakes in August.

We did the shutdowns wrong.

They are definitely a blunt instrument. They're not meant to be a final solution. Using them as a final solution to prevent spread is using them wrong, and they'll never work for that.

A shutdown is supposed to be a temporary short duration blunt instrument used to stop the uncontrolled spread of an infectious disease in a broad group by disrupting all contacts in that group. It's goal is to slow the spread long enough to implement more targeted controls. It's very good at that. It doesn't take any knowledge about how transmission works or who is contagious. It's goal is simply to stop as much interaction as possible to reset the clock so that more permanent solutions can be implemented. As such, it also disrupts everything else that requires interaction to work.

We did wrong.

We neither mitigated all of the other damages caused by the shutdown at a sufficient level nor did we use the time to implement better solutions to contain the disease. We allowed the damage, and did some half way attempts at slowing, not containing.

As such, we're probably going to need another one at some point in some areas. It's the only way to reset the clock once the infections is widespread enough. Let's hope we do it better the second time. Doing it will still not be a permanent solution, only a way to buy time and stop an out of control spread. It's possible the efforts done to slow the spread will mitigate this, but at some tipping point the slowing is still not enough.

When the case numbers are low, testing and contact tracing can prevent large scale community spread.

This is the solution. It's the only solution to containment instead of just slowing spread. We must be able to test people fast enough between "test need identified" and "result returned, contact trace if positive". Something on the order of 24 to 48 hours at maximum. Based on today, there's only 2 ways to get here. Either increase testing capacity that all test are available and returned fast enough OR reduce current levels so that existing test capacity can deliver results fast enough.

Build/Deploy more fast testing capacity or shutdown enough to disrupt the spread to small enough level to allow fast testing and tracing and do the fast testing an tracing as part of ending the shutdown.

I so wish some news organization would break down the testing numbers to "tests returned within 24/48 hours of need" vs "test results today from who knows when in the past". That first group is critical. The second group is practically noise, mostly useless for containment, and just wasting resources. Those longer test times do provide statistical knowledge about the spread, they just don't help contain it.

We don’t believe in contact tracing in this country.
Somehow, we manage it just fine for other things like TB exposure.
It doesn’t stop people from refusing to cooperate. I’ve seen numerous stories of people refusing to talk to the department of health or refusing to give the names of people they were in contact with. People are dug in.
I don't get this. "You've exposed people you presumably like to a highly contagious disease tell us their names and contact details so we can have them get tested to see if they're infected and spreading it to others". And people don't want to help their friends, or are associating with people they're embarrassed to be associated with. These are the same people who would hide being bitten by a zombie, bite others, and then get them to hide it too. :(


It’s not an easy call. The biggest question is what do you do when kids get sick? Unless you want the plan to be just let everyone keep going to school even if they are sick there has to be some kind of other plan. When a kid gets sick that kid must quarantine but do you quarantine all the kids in that class too? Do you get them all tested before they can come back? That seems to be the plan most places. That can be pretty disruptive to education too especially when test results take days or weeks to come back.
This one is simple. You need low community spread and fast test and trace. When a kid/teacher/administrator/cafeteria worker gets sick, trace all the contacts with enough exposure, quarantine for 2 days while testing, and repeat for positives. Throw in some extra random school sampling everyday (testing not quarantine) to look for a hidden asymptomatic spread or early identification.

If we cannot do those things, and the test and trace cycle is to long to be effective, we've only slowed the spread but haven't moved at all to containment. While I hate it, there's no reason to open schools if we're only slowing and not making any containment progress. It's like adding wood to a fire we're trying to put out. Sure, if we add wood slower, the fire will not get as big as fast, but it's still getting bigger and not going out.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Somehow, we manage it just fine for other things like TB exposure.
TB has not been politicized. Covid has.
I don't get this. "You've exposed people you presumably like to a highly contagious disease tell us their names and contact details so we can have them get tested to see if they're infected and spreading it to others". And people don't want to help their friends, or are associating with people they're embarrassed to be associated with. These are the same people who would hide being bitten by a zombie, bite others, and then get them to hide it too. :(
I don’t disagree. It’s really frustrating to see. Here’s a clip from a news story in my county. This guy essentially tested positive then continued to coach little league and go to a 4th of July party. When the department of health questioned his contacts he refused to confirm he went to the party or give any names. Through social media others at the party found out the guy was positive and called the county to make sure they knew who to contact from the party but they said they couldn’t follow through on contact tracing because he wouldn’t cooperate and confirm he was at the party. Crazy stuff. So selfish.
This one is simple. You need low community spread and fast test and trace. When a kid/teacher/administrator/cafeteria worker gets sick, trace all the contacts with enough exposure, quarantine for 2 days while testing, and repeat for positives. Throw in some extra random school sampling everyday (testing not quarantine) to look for a hidden asymptomatic spread or early identification.

If we cannot do those things, and the test and trace cycle is to long to be effective, we've only slowed the spread but haven't moved at all to containment. While I hate it, there's no reason to open schools if we're only slowing and not making any containment progress. It's like adding wood to a fire we're trying to put out. Sure, if we add wood slower, the fire will not get as big as fast, but it's still getting bigger and not going out.
I don’t disagree with this either. Unfortunately due mostly to politics there’s a blind push ahead to open schools no matter what. There are a lot of places where community spread is out of control but school is going back anyway.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
On the theme park front if the analysts quoted in this story are correct there’s no rush to visit WDW with low crowds. Cowen and Company doesn’t expect the theme parks to become profitable again until 2025. They expect a drop of 100 million people in attendance over 2 years with 2020 down 47% and 2021 down 35%. Goldman has the positive view and expects as soon as 2022 or 2023 for a bounce back in attendance and revenue. In both cases it seems the expectation is we can expect lighter crowds for several years. The downside is that has major cost cutting ramifications and could be devastating for workers who rely on OT and steady hours. This is just 2 people‘s opinions but not a great outlook for the mouse house.

 

Lilofan

Well-Known Member
On the theme park front if the analysts quoted in this story are correct there’s no rush to visit WDW with low crowds. Cowen and Company doesn’t expect the theme parks to become profitable again until 2025. They expect a drop of 100 million people in attendance over 2 years with 2020 down 47% and 2021 down 35%. Goldman has the positive view and expects as soon as 2022 or 2023 for a bounce back in attendance and revenue. In both cases it seems the expectation is we can expect lighter crowds for several years. The downside is that has major cost cutting ramifications and could be devastating for workers who rely on OT and steady hours. This is just 2 people‘s opinions but not a great outlook for the mouse house.

This is devastating also for all of Central Florida tourism.
 

JoeCamel

Well-Known Member
On the theme park front if the analysts quoted in this story are correct there’s no rush to visit WDW with low crowds. Cowen and Company doesn’t expect the theme parks to become profitable again until 2025. They expect a drop of 100 million people in attendance over 2 years with 2020 down 47% and 2021 down 35%. Goldman has the positive view and expects as soon as 2022 or 2023 for a bounce back in attendance and revenue. In both cases it seems the expectation is we can expect lighter crowds for several years. The downside is that has major cost cutting ramifications and could be devastating for workers who rely on OT and steady hours. This is just 2 people‘s opinions but not a great outlook for the mouse house.

This is devastating also for all of Central Florida tourism.
It’s a harsh reality. WDW and Universal will survive but some other stuff may not. We will likely also see a major decline in new projects for a little while until things stabilize.
Just saw an infographic that 51% of Florida renters are at risk of eviction....

Going to be a huge amount of pain for a long time in central Fla.
 

corsairk09

Well-Known Member
Just my opinion, there will be plenty of folks who will still travel to WDW, it is truly safe at WDW and with the park reservation system continuing, word is getting out that this is an opportunity to experience the parks when they are not MOBBED.

Here is what we have now at WDW.
Low crowds
Low wait times for attractions
The ability to ride attractions multiple times a day

The character cavalcades ARE BETTER than parades in my opinion!!! The parades are time killing and stressful and you almost never get a good spot unless you campout an hour and a half before hand only to have someone try to stand in front of you!!

Yes we lost fireworks, but again, time killing and stressful and you almost never get a good spot unless you campout an hour and a half before hand and someone ALWAYS taller stands in front of me!!
We had a trip planned in March… Thinking about waiting until 2021 now because my three-year-old daughter really wants to meet the characters. Honest question… What is a character cavalcade and how does that work? Low crowds sound wonderful but want my daughter to have a full experience and to leave feeling like it was worth the $$
 

hopemax

Well-Known Member
We had a trip planned in March… Thinking about waiting until 2021 now because my three-year-old daughter really wants to meet the characters. Honest question… What is a character cavalcade and how does that work? Low crowds sound wonderful but want my daughter to have a full experience and to leave feeling like it was worth the $$
They put the characters on a float or vehicle and drive them down the parade route. Guests are not allowed to interact with the characters directly. So no photos of people with a character, and no autographs.

So if your daughter wants to hug the characters, you are better off waiting. There will likely be overlap between continuing low crowds and lifted restrictions, because the recovery won't happen overnight. Just save your pennies and be ready to pounce when we get the "all clear."
 

Kevin_W

Well-Known Member
On the theme park front if the analysts quoted in this story are correct there’s no rush to visit WDW with low crowds. Cowen and Company doesn’t expect the theme parks to become profitable again until 2025. They expect a drop of 100 million people in attendance over 2 years with 2020 down 47% and 2021 down 35%. Goldman has the positive view and expects as soon as 2022 or 2023 for a bounce back in attendance and revenue. In both cases it seems the expectation is we can expect lighter crowds for several years. The downside is that has major cost cutting ramifications and could be devastating for workers who rely on OT and steady hours. This is just 2 people‘s opinions but not a great outlook for the mouse house.


Just keep in mind that most of these analysts know as much or less about the parks as you or I do. And that some of these articles are published by people that have stock positions in the company they are writing about and will financially benefit if the stock moves up or down. I know nothing about these guys, but it's something to keep in mind as you read any article with predictions (good or bad).
 

Kevin_W

Well-Known Member
We had a trip planned in March… Thinking about waiting until 2021 now because my three-year-old daughter really wants to meet the characters. Honest question… What is a character cavalcade and how does that work? Low crowds sound wonderful but want my daughter to have a full experience and to leave feeling like it was worth the $$

At age 3-5, my daughter was all about meeting the princesses and giving them a hug, Waving at a float would be more fun for her now, but at that age I'd probably wait.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Just keep in mind that most of these analysts know as much or less about the parks as you or I do. And that some of these articles are published by people that have stock positions in the company they are writing about and will financially benefit if the stock moves up or down. I know nothing about these guys, but it's something to keep in mind as you read any article with predictions (good or bad).
They are sell side analysts which are separate from the part of the business that actively invests in stocks. The sell side analysts make money by selling advise to people on whether to buy or sell the stock (in other words they work for the brokerage side, not the investment banking side). There are SEC rules around personal ownership of stocks that an analyst follows.

I‘m not saying they know what’s going to happen, but they do stay on top of what’s going on in the industry they follow. I don’t think anyone can accurately predict what will happen with Covid, but it’s definitely not going away any time soon.
 
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