Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[oceanbreeze77]

A public health expert that I follow on Twitter characterized the pandemic as a test in compassion.

that's perfect. It really is.

I see a lot of (in general) "I" "I" "I" "me" "me" "me" and its really about "us."

Thats one of the reasons why other countries did so well at fighting the virus. We are an individualistic country. We care about the success of the self and setting off as individuals into the world and I'm not saying theres anything wrong with that normally, but during hard times we fail to come together. Other countries celebrate the culture of being together and they lean on their neighbors for everything. (I lived in Europe for a few years so I know the difference--I lived the difference)

 

[xdan0920]

that's perfect. It really is.

I see a lot of (in general) "I" "I" "I" "me" "me" "me" and its really about "us."

Thats one of the reasons why other countries did so well at fighting the virus. We are an individualistic country. We care about the success of the self and setting off as individuals into the world and I'm not saying theres anything wrong with that normally, but during hard times we fail to come together. Other countries celebrate the culture of being together and they lean on their neighbors for everything. (I lived in Europe for a few years so I know the difference--I lived the difference)

Nah. You are doing some super fun fake history. Europe is not one country. Some Countries in Europe did better than us, some did worse. The US is very large. The northeast states were a disaster. The south is now having their pandemic, and by all accounts, are handling it WAY better then we did up here. Looks like they learned from our failed mitigation attempts.

edit to add....

Coronavirus: Barcelona beaches packed after fed-up locals ignore stay-at-home advice amid COVID-19 spike

The region of Catalonia has had the worst incidence of COVID-19 cases in Spain since the lifting of the national lockdown.

news.sky.com

Selfish Europeans... smh

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I just bought another 50 disposable surgical grade masks.

That's really weird because I've been getting lectured about how we're "massively, horribly low on PPE" and that even hospitals can't get masks.

 

[Touchdown]

That's really weird because I've been getting lectured about how we're "massively, horribly low on PPE" and that even hospitals can't get masks.

Hospitals have plenty of surgical masks, what they are low on is N95 masks and equivalents that are needed to protect healthcare workers treating Covid patients.

 

[xdan0920]

Hospitals have plenty of surgical masks, what they are low on is N95 masks and equivalents that are needed to protect healthcare workers treating Covid patients.

If a hospital is short on PPE. Who’s fault is that?

 

[Casper Gutman]

That's really weird because I've been getting lectured about how we're "massively, horribly low on PPE" and that even hospitals can't get masks.

There is an incredible shortage of N95 masks, which hospitals need and which would help everyone if they were plentiful.

This is not a remotely debatable point.

 

[Touchdown]

If a hospital is short on PPE. Who’s fault is that?

Most PPE is made in China, as the pandemic ramped up there not only did they stop exporting it but they also repurchased some from abroad then those factories shut down leading to a global shortage.

Assigning blame would break the no politics rule, but that is the “how” to a PPE shortage.

Even with those factories back open global use of those products have skyrocketed leading to continued shortages.

 

[xdan0920]

Most PPE is made in China, as the pandemic ramped up there not only did they stop exporting it but they also repurchased some from abroad then those factories shut down leading to a global shortage.

Assigning blame would break the no politics rule, but that is the “how” to a PPE shortage.

Why didn’t individual hospitals and hospital groups have a strategic stockpile? Was there no pandemic planning at all? My local hospital, they were critically low inside a week. That’s a joke.

 

[Touchdown]

Why didn’t individual hospitals and hospital groups have a strategic stockpile? Was there no pandemic planning at all? My local hospital, they were critically low inside a week. That’s a joke.

PPE spoils, it’s bulky, and up until 9 months ago I could count on my hands the amount of times I had to use an N95 mask. Hospitals operate on razor thin margins, and just don’t have extra space. Besides, FEMA maintained a national strategic reserve that was supposed to back this up (and that was supposed to hold us over in a severe pandemic until production could be ramped up state side.)

The problem is, building PPE in this country costs more, and this pandemic is not going to last forever. When demand drops China will undercut prices, hospitals will start buying from the cheapest supplier and the US factories will be shut out of the market. No business will do that on their own.

Edit: and I’ll stop there rather then touch the third rail.

 

[xdan0920]

PPE spoils, it’s bulky, and up until 9 months ago I could count on my hands the amount of times I had to use an N95 mask. Hospitals operate on razor thin margins, and just don’t have extra space. Besides, FEMA maintained a national strategic reserve that was supposed to back this up (and that was supposed to hold us over in a severe pandemic until production could be ramped up state side.)

The problem is, building PPE in this country costs more, and this pandemic is not going to last forever. When demand drops China will undercut prices, hospitals will start buying from the cheapest supplier and the US factories will be shut out of the market. No business will do that on their own.

Edit: and I’ll stop there rather then touch the third rail.

So, no, they didn’t have a plan. And it was too expensive to buy and store them. Not gonna get much sympathy from the general public there.

 

[Touchdown]

So, no, they didn’t have a plan. And it was too expensive to buy and store them. Not gonna get much sympathy from the general public there.

The fed should have had a plan though. Apparently they didn’t execute that plan very well?

This isn’t a US problem, it’s a worldwide problem. Is your business ready for any disaster? Do you have supplies and facilities to continue functioning during a nuclear war and resultant winter?

Ok maybe that’s too harsh, you’re from New Jersey, is every business in your state now prepared for the next Hurricane Sandy that you can recover and resume functioning immediately without government help?

This is a natural disaster. We have civic institutions to help society deal with these.

 

[GoofGoof]

Why didn’t individual hospitals and hospital groups have a strategic stockpile? Was there no pandemic planning at all? My local hospital, they were critically low inside a week. That’s a joke.

The answer to that is capitalism. Hospitals are for profit. They aren’t in business to stockpile stuff in case of a pandemic. They are in business to make money for shareholders. Even the not for profit hospitals that still exist have budget constraints. You hear all the time people complaining about the ridiculous high cost of hospital care and that’s with thin margins. Imagine if they stockpiled for every possible contingency. IMHO the federal government should have had a stockpile of excess supplies that could be allocated to facilities as needed. They should have also forced the ramp up of production as soon as the situation started to unfold. During WWII we ramped up production of tanks and battleships in less time than its taking to make some masks.

 

[GoofGoof]

A majority of this thread is not conversation....its trying to shame/bully others into feeling bad about decisions they are making

People need to grow a thicker skin. Do what you want and don’t worry about what other people have to say. Its perfectly valid for someone to have the opinion that a theme park shouldn‘t be open or that people shouldn’t be traveling just like it’s valid to have the opinion that travel is fine. That’s the point of a discussion forum, for people to express their views. How is expressing an opinion bullying? Someone coming on here and saying theme parks shouldn’t be open isn’t stopping anyone from going, it’s not threatening anyone who does go. If you go to WDW right now there are people out there who will be judging your decision to go and will disagree with it. The only way to avoid hearing about that is to avoid discussions about it or to stick in an echo chamber of like minded people.

 

[John park hopper]

The answer to that is capitalism. Hospitals are for profit. They aren’t in business to stockpile stuff in case of a pandemic. They are in business to make money for shareholders. Even the not for profit hospitals that still exist have budget constraints. You hear all the time people complaining about the ridiculous high cost of hospital care and that’s with thin margins. Imagine if they stockpiled for every possible contingency. IMHO the federal government should have had a stockpile of excess supplies that could be allocated to facilities as needed. They should have also forced the ramp up of production as soon as the situation started to unfold. During WWII we ramped up production of tanks and battleships in less time than its taking to make some masks.

Big difference WW II we had industry here (steel, textiles, aircraft, etc etc) in the US that could be converted to making gun, tanks, planes, ships. Fast forward modern day USA so much of of our industry has been shipped overseas ( textiles gone, drug manufactures, aircraft, steel list is endless) In fact many US companies and mom and pop companies jumped in and made masks, face shields like any thing it takes time to ramp up production

 

[xdan0920]

This isn’t a US problem, it’s a worldwide problem. Is your business ready for any disaster? Do you have supplies and facilities to continue functioning during a nuclear war and resultant winter?

I’d think hospitals would be more prepared. Pretty big bummer that they aren’t.

 

[G00fyDad]

Companies were forced to retool and make face shields etc by the current admin

Not on the scale that should have been. I have seen only one or two doing it. But I will admit that I may have missed seeing information about other companies.

 

[Heppenheimer]

The answer to that is capitalism. Hospitals are for profit. They aren’t in business to stockpile stuff in case of a pandemic. They are in business to make money for shareholders. Even the not for profit hospitals that still exist have budget constraints. You hear all the time people complaining about the ridiculous high cost of hospital care and that’s with thin margins. Imagine if they stockpiled for every possible contingency. IMHO the federal government should have had a stockpile of excess supplies that could be allocated to facilities as needed. They should have also forced the ramp up of production as soon as the situation started to unfold. During WWII we ramped up production of tanks and battleships in less time than its taking to make some masks.

Less than 20% of the hospitals in the US are for-profit. The majority (more than 60%) are non-profit, and the remainder are government-owned.

Having worked for all three in my career, the best funded were the for-profits.

And the industry-standard, for all three models, is just-in-time inventory. It's just too prohibitively expensive for an individual hospital to maintain their own stockpile for times of surge use. That's where state and federal governments are supposed to chip in.

 

[carolina_yankee]

Nah. You are doing some super fun fake history. Europe is not one country. Some Countries in Europe did better than us, some did worse. The US is very large. The northeast states were a disaster. The south is now having their pandemic, and by all accounts, are handling it WAY better then we did up here. Looks like they learned from our failed mitigation attempts.

That's a bit of fun fake history, too. Regions currently hard hit have tools that simply weren't available at the start: wide-spread testing, PPE, isolation procedures, treatment protocols, increased understanding of where the risks are, etc. There are also some aspects where they are simply luckier. Population densities are lower in current hot zones, and people emerged from a lockdown rather than entered into a lockdown.

It's not a comparable situation. And the jury is still out on effects to come.

My sense is that *everybody* has grabbed onto denial with regard to the pandemic, from "it can't get that bad here" and "It won't hurt me" to "the economy doesn't matter." The other denial is the expectation that in a few months, this will be behind us. I suspect- worldwide - life and "normal" has changed for at least a generation. You don't have this kind of shock to the system, and then stand up, shake it off, and go back to what you were doing.

 

[DisneyDebRob]

That's a bit of fun fake history, too. Regions currently hard hit have tools that simply weren't available at the start: wide-spread testing, PPE, isolation procedures, treatment protocols, increased understanding of where the risks are, etc. There are also some aspects where they are simply luckier. Population densities are lower in current hot zones, and people emerged from a lockdown rather than entered into a lockdown.

It's not a comparable situation. And the jury is still out on effects to come.

My sense is that *everybody* has grabbed onto denial with regard to the pandemic, from "it can't get that bad here" and "It won't hurt me" to "the economy doesn't matter." The other denial is the expectation that in a few months, this will be behind us. I suspect- worldwide - life and "normal" has changed for at least a generation. You don't have this kind of shock to the system, and then stand up, shake it off, and go back to what you were doing.

Not only that, I remember the good old days here of people saying we need to follow the Swedish model of doing things. Now with some time to see how it worked out, well not to good. Every country tried a bit of something different, some worked better then others . More data so we can be more prepared for this moving forward and ones to come in the future.

Sweden hoped herd immunity would curb COVID-19. Don't do what we did. It's not working.

Sweden's approach to COVID has led to death, grief and suffering. The only example we're setting is how not to deal with a deadly infectious disease.

www.google.com

 

[The Mom]

Please don't turn this into another shoulda, coulda, woulda argument.

Makes me think of this:



And it's Disney related.