Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[mickeymiss]

1) Wear a mask. They work.
View attachment 482583
2) WASH YOUR HANDS often.
3) Keep at least 6 feet from others when possible.
4) STAY HOME. If you HAVE to go out of your home to something other than work (groceries) then limit your time out and stay away from large crowds.
5) Don't touch things and then touch your face. COVID19 (among other things) lives on hard surfaces for up to 3 hours and porous surfaces for about 1 hour.
6) Don't spray your groceries with Lysol.
7) Don't inject cleaner into your body or food.

Not sure how much clearer any of that needs to be.

How long do we "stay home"? We aren't promised an end to this or a vaccine. We stand to lose our quality of life if we don't find a way to balance the risk. Staying home is not a plan. It's not realistic or even science based. We know that many acitvities can be made safe with masks and other measures. We have already cherry picked what is allowed and not. Nobody flinched about grocery workers facing this risk all along. We rely on them and are able to insulate ourselves largely because of other people.

Ironically, grocery stores were at the top of my OCD list before covid and now essential status somehow makes it safe. Just like take out food handled by anonymous food handlers was arbitrarily deemed essential and safe since the start but everything else is dangerous even with a mask on? The rules are all over the place. I think opening most things with caution is going to be the way through it. High risk people can and should stay home if they would like to. I don't know why people reject the idea of personal responsibility so much. It's what we've always done as a society about any risk. Shutdowns are not designed to be long term. We control our own environments much more than anyone else can. I shake my head at the idea that some people are more important than others when it comes to going back to work. Essential grocery workers didn't ask to be on the front lines of this but they are. Many of them are high risk and working with a better attitude than those of us at home.

I don't have to worry about school for my son thankfully but I don't envy the decision makers. That's going to be a mess no matter what. People are so polarized on everything but especially that.

 

[Andrew C]

I hope they do. 100k a day if that gets us to a lower rate and then we can get a handle on this.

Eh. More testing is useful when it can be utilized to determine where better mitigation is necessary. If they can’t do that, kinda pointless.
More testing that likely brings a lower positivity rate will make you feel better. But that information then needs to be used effectively.

 

[kong1802]

Eh. More testing is useful when it can be utilized to determine where better mitigation is necessary. If they can’t do that, kinda pointless.

Well hopefully that's what they are doing with it.

Or at least getting people to know they are positive and hoping that they quarantine and don't spread it.

 

[G00fyDad]

How long do we "stay home"? We aren't promised an end to this or a vaccine. We stand to lose our quality of life if we don't find a way to balance the risk. Staying home is not a plan. It's not realistic or even science based. We know that many acitvities can be made safe with masks and other measures. We have already cherry picked what is allowed and not. Nobody flinched about grocery workers facing this risk all along. We rely on them and are able to insulate ourselves largely because of other people.

If people had followed the stay-at-home guidelines from the beginning it would be nearly over by now. But this is 'Murica and NO ONE tells us what to do.

 

[Disstevefan1]

How long do we "stay home"? We aren't promised an end to this or a vaccine. We stand to lose our quality of life if we don't find a way to balance the risk. Staying home is not a plan. It's not realistic or even science based. We know that many acitvities can be made safe with masks and other measures. We have already cherry picked what is allowed and not. Nobody flinched about grocery workers facing this risk all along. We rely on them and are able to insulate ourselves largely because of other people.

Ironically, grocery stores were at the top of my OCD list before covid and now essential status somehow makes it safe. Just like take out food handled by anonymous food handlers was arbitrarily deemed essential and safe since the start but everything else is dangerous even with a mask on? The rules are all over the place. I think opening most things with caution is going to be the way through it. High risk people can and should stay home if they would like to. I don't know why people reject the idea of personal responsibility so much. It's what we've always done as a society about any risk. Shutdowns are not designed to be long term. We control our own environments much more than anyone else can. I shake my head at the idea that some people are more important than others when it comes to going back to work. Essential grocery workers didn't ask to be on the front lines of this but they are. Many of them are high risk and working with a better attitude than those of us at home.

I don't have to worry about school for my son thankfully but I don't envy the decision makers. That's going to be a mess no matter what. People are so polarized on everything but especially that.

This is the perfect post. Well said and 100% true

 

[oceanbreeze77]

Staying home is not a plan. It's not realistic or even science based.

Where di you see its not science based?

 

[Andrew C]

If people had followed the stay-at-home guidelines from the beginning it would be nearly over by now. But this is 'Murica and NO ONE tells us what to do.

The majority did. Actually, they did a better job with these mitigation efforts than the models originally predicted.

 

[GoofGoof]

Then there's hyperbolic statements like this that seem to deliberately manipilate and scare the reader:

Surfaces are not a main way this spreads but, "if you touch a doorknob and then touch your face, you're infected"

Notice that they say infected, not exposed?

If every door handle and railing was causing the spread, this pandemic could never stabilize. Every flight, every meeting, every minor encounter would have had us overrun before we could blink.

I get why they have to cover something as a possibility but saying you are infected from touching a door handle is wildly speculative and likely wrong. You need to account for viral load and other factors. This is why constant transparency about what they ARE finding is critical. I can't imagine that anyone would disagree. People want apps that track people but they don't want health departments more accountable than they are? States that are experiencing spikes right now have a lot of people to draw information from. There's nothing to share about most likely modes of transmission? All of it is mysterious?

What’s the Risk of Catching Coronavirus From a Surface?

Touching contaminated objects and then infecting ourselves with the germs is not typically how the virus spreads. But it can happen.

www.nytimes.com

I don’t believe that the health departments are not being accountable. Do we have any evidence that they have more information that they are choosing not to share? In a state like FL that is reporting around 10K new cases a day do they have the staff in place to actually do extensive contact tracing for them? It takes time to interview someone who tests positive, gather a list of everyone they came into contact with and then make phone calls to alert people. My guess is that’s the focus right now and they will likely focus on easy to trace contact like co-workers, family members and neighbors/friends people came into extended contact with. I doubt they are doing any sort of tracing for public contact with strangers. It’s too many cases. That gets chalked up as community spread.

I hear what you are saying about having more information and I don’t disagree that it would be great to have it. It would be great if FL could come out and say the cases are all coming from bars, petting zoos and hair salons and theme parks, grocery stores and gyms are perfectly safe (I’m just using those things as examples). Then we would know exactly what is and isn’t risky. With the amount of cases chalked up to community spread it’s impossible for them to do that with any level of accuracy. We have to use available information on how the virus spreads and decide for ourselves what‘s worth the risk. There’s some basic guidelines out there like the one posted here many pages back now where TX hospital staff ranked activities from 1-9 on a risk scale.

 

[schuelma]

The majority did. Actually, they did a better job with these mitigation efforts than the models originally predicted.

As a country we have done far worse than most of our peers. It isn't rocket science. Wear masks. Reopen *in stages* only after meeting clear metrics. Have adequate testing and tracing capability.

 

[Andrew C]

As a country we have done far worse than most of our peers. It isn't rocket science. Wear masks. Reopen *in stages* only after meeting clear metrics. Have adequate testing and tracing capability.

Last part was kinda an issue. Still is for some areas.

 

[GoofGoof]

Eh. More testing is useful when it can be utilized to determine where better mitigation is necessary. If they can’t do that, kinda pointless.
More testing that likely brings a lower positivity rate will make you feel better. But that information then needs to be used effectively.

True, but more testing hopefully means more positive people are identified and they quarantine vs staying in ”circulation” and continuing to spread the virus. In an extreme example if they tested every single person in the state of FL today you would identify and then quarantine almost all sick people and snuff out the hot spot. We know it’s not possible to test everyone but the more testing they do the more people they identify.

 

[lazyboy97o]

How long do we "stay home"? We aren't promised an end to this or a vaccine. We stand to lose our quality of life if we don't find a way to balance the risk. Staying home is not a plan. It's not realistic or even science based. We know that many acitvities can be made safe with masks and other measures. We have already cherry picked what is allowed and not. Nobody flinched about grocery workers facing this risk all along. We rely on them and are able to insulate ourselves largely because of other people.

Ironically, grocery stores were at the top of my OCD list before covid and now essential status somehow makes it safe. Just like take out food handled by anonymous food handlers was arbitrarily deemed essential and safe since the start but everything else is dangerous even with a mask on? The rules are all over the place. I think opening most things with caution is going to be the way through it. High risk people can and should stay home if they would like to. I don't know why people reject the idea of personal responsibility so much. It's what we've always done as a society about any risk. Shutdowns are not designed to be long term. We control our own environments much more than anyone else can. I shake my head at the idea that some people are more important than others when it comes to going back to work. Essential grocery workers didn't ask to be on the front lines of this but they are. Many of them are high risk and working with a better attitude than those of us at home.

I don't have to worry about school for my son thankfully but I don't envy the decision makers. That's going to be a mess no matter what. People are so polarized on everything but especially that.

You’re completely misunderstanding what was determined. Nobody ever said grocery stores are safe. Essential businesses were not allowed to stay open because they were deemed safe. The whole point of closing things down was to limit interactions between persons as much as possible. Every interaction is a potential spread and the more a contagious person interacts the more the virus spreads.

 

[schuelma]

Last part was kinda an issue. Still is for some areas.

Yes. And in the case of Florida and other states being hit hard- the case numbers are so high its basically impossible to adequately trace right now.

 

[Touchdown]

Eh. More testing is useful when it can be utilized to determine where better mitigation is necessary. If they can’t do that, kinda pointless.
More testing that likely brings a lower positivity rate will make you feel better. But that information then needs to be used effectively.

No, it’s not pointless once you get below 10% and especially 5% you can reasonably assume that you are getting a vast majority of the actual positive cases in a community, it means that testing is so plentiful and painless that people are willing to be tested with only minor or even no symptoms. It is extremely important because if a person knows they have it most will quarantine.

 

[GoofGoof]

Last part was kinda an issue. Still is for some areas.

I would say the re-opening was a little rushed too. Not that we shouldn’t have re-opened but the speed for certain things was obviously a problem. Some states like TX have acknowledged this and pivoted to what will hopefully be a short pause and minor reboot to the plans. Other states...still need to do better.

 

[Andrew C]

No, it’s not pointless once you get below 10% and especially 5% you can reasonably assume that you are getting a vast majority of the actual positive cases in a community, it means that testing is so plentiful and painless that people are willing to be tested with only minor or even no symptoms. It is extremely important because if a person knows they have it most will quarantine.

This was part of the point I was making. Sorry if that wasnt clear.

 

[chrisvee]

Then there's hyperbolic statements like this that seem to deliberately manipilate and scare the reader:

Surfaces are not a main way this spreads but, "if you touch a doorknob and then touch your face, you're infected"

There are three paragraphs after that in this May 28th article that explain how fomite transmission works including a quote from another expert about the causal chain. There are plenty of maybes and in theories caveating statements. You also didn’t include the portion of the quote where Dr Bromage said high touch surfaces are not the main driver. Her ‘you’re infected’ statement was in relation to a person sneezing into their hand and then shaking yours. Or drinking from a glass and then touching the rim.

 

[Andrew C]

I would say the re-opening was a little rushed too. Not that we shouldn’t have re-opened but the speed for certain things was obviously a problem. Some states like TX have acknowledged this and pivoted to what will hopefully be a short pause and minor reboot to the plans. Other states...still need to do better.

This is really what I see happened in states like Texas, Florida, California and Arizona. The virus never hit these states early on like it did for the northeast. I think many leaders and experts knew it eventually would. Some warned about it. But even so, it led to a false sense of security. Eventually, the virus did hit and it spread as these states were reopening. I don’t think reopening caused the virus to hit. It was going to hit either way. It was inevitable. but certain areas that were opening at that time definitely caused the community spread to be great. That combined with mistakes during the reopening..well, here we are.

 

[oceanbreeze77]

This is really what I see happened in states like Texas, Florida, California and Arizona. The virus never hit these states early on like it did for the northeast. I think many leaders and experts knew it eventually would. Some warned about it. But even so, it led to a false sense of security. Eventually, the virus did hit and it spread as these states were reopening. I don’t think reopening caused the virus to hit. It was going to hit either way. It was inevitable. but certain areas that were opened at that time definitely caused the community spread to be great. That combined with mistakes during the reopening..well, here we are.

yes here in CA we were supposed to open in stages. Instead they were like" were in stage 2 now yay!!!" and 2 days later "lets go on in to stage 3 woot woot!!" They really rushed things and we were doing amazing before and now look at us, one of the worst outbreaks.

 

[chrisvee]

And the tragedy of it is that we’ve not done enough to support our essential workers with PPE, testing, wage replacement, and a bunch of other things.