Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Chip Chipperson]

No it's not great news.

It's certainly not good news for any of the teachers, administrators, janitors, cafeteria workers, etc. who don't have the perceived benefit of being young enough to withstand the virus without serious complications. Many people in those jobs are older and/or may have underlying health conditions that make them high risk. For some reason, their health doesn't matter as much to some people as the benefits of kids being in the classroom and parents not having to juggle working from home and helping their kids with school work.

And that's before you consider that most schools weren't designed for social distancing in the classroom. How does an overcrowded school keep kids safe in a room without enough space to keep them 6 feet apart? How doe they keep the teachers safe in that environment? Even staggering how often they're in the building doesn't help unless the classrooms all have those folding divider walls that allow them to expand 1 classroom into the next one. You can't reduce the number of students in each class without hiring more teachers - and that gets very expensive very fast when you're doing that for a K-12 district.

 

[Andrew C]

Andrew adults can’t follow the rules, how in the world are we to expect children to do so?

You do the best you can. To me, it is worth the risk. Again, we are assuming that significant spread from school is inevitable. The data is not clear as to whether typical mitigation efforts outside of school closures are worse.

 

[Andrew C]

It's certainly not good news for any of the teachers, administrators, janitors, cafeteria workers, etc. who don't have the perceived benefit of being young enough to withstand the virus without serious complications. Many people in those jobs are older and/or may have underlying health conditions that make them high risk. For some reason, their health doesn't matter as much to some people as the benefits of kids being in the classroom and parents not having to juggle working from home and helping their kids with school work.

Tell that to all the essential workers who never stopped going into their stores, warehouses, etc. Yet, for the most essential worker we have, the teacher, it is a hard stop for some.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

It's certainly not good news for any of the teachers, administrators, janitors, cafeteria workers, etc. who don't have the perceived benefit of being young enough to withstand the virus without serious complications. Many people in those jobs are older and/or may have underlying health conditions that make them high risk. For some reason, their health doesn't matter as much to some people as the benefits of kids being in the classroom and parents not having to juggle working from home and helping their kids with school work.

And that's before you consider that most schools weren't designed for social distancing in the classroom. How does an overcrowded school keep kids safe in a room without enough space to keep them 6 feet apart? How doe they keep the teachers safe in that environment? Even staggering how often they're in the building doesn't help unless the classrooms all have those folding divider walls that allow them to expand 1 classroom into the next one. You can't reduce the number of students in each class without hiring more teachers - and that gets very expensive very fast when you're doing that for a K-12 district.

That and the “it only affects old/at risk people” is far from proven.

Certainly not enough to take the chance on the rash of younger aged cases we are raging though.

We know there’s no longterm danger/problems with this? After 6 whole months of panicked medicine?

I wouldn’t trust it. I therefore wouldn’t make my kids “deal with it”

...but some of yours on this endless nonsense stream can feel free to.

Different day, same mistakes.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Tell that to all the essential workers who never stopped going into their stores, warehouses, etc. Yet, for the most essential worker we have, the teacher, it is a hard stop for some.

Wait...the cure can’t be worse than the disease, right?

We have to get our “great economy” going again, right?

 

[Touchdown]

You do the best you can. To me, it is worth the risk. Again, we are assuming that significant spread from school is inevitable. The data is not clear as to whether typical mitigation efforts outside of school closures are worse.

So your hypothesis is a respiratory virus more virulent then the flu is less likely to spread in schools then the flu which runs rampant.

Interesting hypothesis, shame children have to be the lab rats in order to test this out.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

So you’re hypothesis is a respiratory virus more virulent then the flu is less likely to spread in schools then the flu which runs rampant.

Interesting hypothesis, shame children have to be the lab rats in order to test this out.

...for an election. Nothing more. You’ve been had, Daddy-O

I’ll say “bah” to the sheep...sorry, mods.

 

[Andrew C]

So you’re hypothesis is a respiratory virus more virulent then the flu is less likely to spread in schools then the flu which runs rampant.

Interesting hypothesis, shame children have to be the lab rats in order to test this out.

It isn't my hypothesis. Below clip from the CDC

"Available modeling data indicate that early, short to medium closures do not impact the epi curve of COVID-19 or available health care measures (e.g., hospitalizations). There may be some impact of much longer closures (8 weeks, 20 weeks) further into community spread, but that modelling also shows that other mitigation efforts (e.g., handwashing, home isolation) have more impact on both spread of disease and health care measures. In other countries, those places who closed school (e.g., Hong Kong) have not had more success in reducing spread than those that did not (e.g., Singapore). "

 

[Touchdown]

You have a direct link to the CDC on that one?

 

[Andrew C]

We also know that school closures disproportionately affect minority communities. More from the American Academy of Pediatrics below....

"Schools are fundamental to child and adolescent development and well-being and provide our children and adolescents with academic instruction, social and emotional skills, safety, reliable nutrition, physical/speech and mental health therapy, and opportunities for physical activity, among other benefits. Beyond supporting the educational development of children and adolescents, schools play a critical role in addressing racial and social inequity. As such, it is critical to reflect on the differential impact SARS-CoV-2 and the associated school closures have had on different races, ethnic and vulnerable populations. "

"The importance of in-person learning is well-documented, and there is already evidence of the negative impacts on children because of school closures in the spring of 2020. Lengthy time away from school and associated interruption of supportive services often results in social isolation, making it difficult for schools to identify and address important learning deficits as well as child and adolescent physical or sexual abuse, substance use, depression, and suicidal ideation. This, in turn, places children and adolescents at considerable risk of morbidity and, in some cases, mortality. Beyond the educational impact and social impact of school closures, there has been substantial impact on food security and physical activity for children and families.

Policy makers must also consider the mounting evidence regarding COVID-19 in children and adolescents, including the role they may play in transmission of the infection. SARS-CoV-2 appears to behave differently in children and adolescents than other common respiratory viruses, such as influenza, on which much of the current guidance regarding school closures is based. Although children and adolescents play a major role in amplifying influenza outbreaks, to date, this does not appear to be the case with SARS-CoV-2. Although many questions remain, the preponderance of evidence indicates that children and adolescents are less likely to be symptomatic and less likely to have severe disease resulting from SARS-CoV-2 infection. In addition, children may be less likely to become infected and to spread infection. Policies to mitigate the spread of COVID-19 within schools must be balanced with the known harms to children, adolescents, families, and the community by keeping children at home."

 

[GoofGoof]

Yes, it is. Great news! I am thrilled reopening schools is as safe a way as possible is being pushed by my state as well as the feds, including the CDC and others. So essential. Maybe nothing is more essential than this. I am so glad it is being given top priority.

I want schools to go back in the fall. Desperately want it for my own sanity. The key is doing it safely. What I think rubs most people the wrong way right now is a governor coming out and saying schools will go back to physical locations no matter what while cases in the state are spiraling out of control. There needs to be an actual assessment of whether there is a safe way to open the schools not just a baby tantrum with a guy sticking his fingers in his ears and saying we‘re doing it because of a tweet. What’s the rush to announce that in the first week of July? Why not see what happens and plan for an opening knowing that if the situation isn’t right we need to go to plan B. That’s what schools mostly everywhere else are doing. I know my kid’s district has 4 plans with various levels of physical and virtual education.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

It isn't my hypothesis. Below clip from the CDC

"Available modeling data indicate that early, short to medium closures do not impact the epi curve of COVID-19 or available health care measures (e.g., hospitalizations). There may be some impact of much longer closures (8 weeks, 20 weeks) further into community spread, but that modelling also shows that other mitigation efforts (e.g., handwashing, home isolation) have more impact on both spread of disease and health care measures. In other countries, those places who closed school (e.g., Hong Kong) have not had more success in reducing spread than those that did not (e.g., Singapore). "

I don’t disagree with any of this. The problem is the American school system is one of the least equipped to deal with it in the developed world. It’s systemic variation.

This is relying on a best case scenario that’s basically impossible here.

We also know that school closures disproportionately affect minority communities. More from the American Academy of Pediatrics below....

"Schools are fundamental to child and adolescent development and well-being and provide our children and adolescents with academic instruction, social and emotional skills, safety, reliable nutrition, physical/speech and mental health therapy, and opportunities for physical activity, among other benefits. Beyond supporting the educational development of children and adolescents, schools play a critical role in addressing racial and social inequity. As such, it is critical to reflect on the differential impact SARS-CoV-2 and the associated school closures have had on different races, ethnic and vulnerable populations. "

"The importance of in-person learning is well-documented, and there is already evidence of the negative impacts on children because of school closures in the spring of 2020. Lengthy time away from school and associated interruption of supportive services often results in social isolation, making it difficult for schools to identify and address important learning deficits as well as child and adolescent physical or sexual abuse, substance use, depression, and suicidal ideation. This, in turn, places children and adolescents at considerable risk of morbidity and, in some cases, mortality. Beyond the educational impact and social impact of school closures, there has been substantial impact on food security and physical activity for children and families.

Policy makers must also consider the mounting evidence regarding COVID-19 in children and adolescents, including the role they may play in transmission of the infection. SARS-CoV-2 appears to behave differently in children and adolescents than other common respiratory viruses, such as influenza, on which much of the current guidance regarding school closures is based. Although children and adolescents play a major role in amplifying influenza outbreaks, to date, this does not appear to be the case with SARS-CoV-2. Although many questions remain, the preponderance of evidence indicates that children and adolescents are less likely to be symptomatic and less likely to have severe disease resulting from SARS-CoV-2 infection. In addition, children may be less likely to become infected and to spread infection. Policies to mitigate the spread of COVID-19 within schools must be balanced with the known harms to children, adolescents, families, and the community by keeping children at home."

This is veering toward socio-economics...and a lot of people advocating for opening/herd immunity don’t want to have this conversation. You won’t like the answers

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Tell that to all the essential workers who never stopped going into their stores, warehouses, etc. Yet, for the most essential worker we have, the teacher, it is a hard stop for some.

People need to buy groceries in order to live. Kids can learn from home. It's not ideal for most parents, but it is doable.

 

[Andrew C]

People need to buy groceries in order to live. Kids can learn from home. It's not ideal for most parents, but it is doable.

It isn't doable for many many kids. That is the reality. It just is.

 

[GoofGoof]

We also know that school closures disproportionately affect minority communities. More from the American Academy of Pediatrics below....

"Schools are fundamental to child and adolescent development and well-being and provide our children and adolescents with academic instruction, social and emotional skills, safety, reliable nutrition, physical/speech and mental health therapy, and opportunities for physical activity, among other benefits. Beyond supporting the educational development of children and adolescents, schools play a critical role in addressing racial and social inequity. As such, it is critical to reflect on the differential impact SARS-CoV-2 and the associated school closures have had on different races, ethnic and vulnerable populations. "

"The importance of in-person learning is well-documented, and there is already evidence of the negative impacts on children because of school closures in the spring of 2020. Lengthy time away from school and associated interruption of supportive services often results in social isolation, making it difficult for schools to identify and address important learning deficits as well as child and adolescent physical or sexual abuse, substance use, depression, and suicidal ideation. This, in turn, places children and adolescents at considerable risk of morbidity and, in some cases, mortality. Beyond the educational impact and social impact of school closures, there has been substantial impact on food security and physical activity for children and families.

Policy makers must also consider the mounting evidence regarding COVID-19 in children and adolescents, including the role they may play in transmission of the infection. SARS-CoV-2 appears to behave differently in children and adolescents than other common respiratory viruses, such as influenza, on which much of the current guidance regarding school closures is based. Although children and adolescents play a major role in amplifying influenza outbreaks, to date, this does not appear to be the case with SARS-CoV-2. Although many questions remain, the preponderance of evidence indicates that children and adolescents are less likely to be symptomatic and less likely to have severe disease resulting from SARS-CoV-2 infection. In addition, children may be less likely to become infected and to spread infection. Policies to mitigate the spread of COVID-19 within schools must be balanced with the known harms to children, adolescents, families, and the community by keeping children at home."

I don’t disagree with any of this. I also hope that for some people this new found concern for poor and minority school districts extends to things like school lunches and other programs that actually help the same communities but seem to be much “less popular” these days.

 

[Andrew C]

I also hope that for some people this new found concern

I cannot speak for others but my concern around this dates back prior to Covid. It was obvious any interruption to the education of many children would have a drastic effect on them. Not to mention, the inequalities that generally exist already in the public education system when schools are up and running.

 

[Andrew C]

I know my kid’s district has 4 plans with various levels of physical and virtual education.

My district has/had 4 plans as well for the upcoming year. Although this came out a while ago so I am unsure what will changed. I did provide feedback on these plans as you can imagine. lol

 

[Horizons '83]

This is drifting into the political realm... tisk tisk

 

[Andrew C]

This is drifting into the political realm... tisk tisk

Is it? Apologies

 

[Horizons '83]

Is it? Apologies

Kind of, although its been leaning that way here and there since the OP posted this thread.