Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[GoofGoof]

I lived across the street from that Publix for a while and my ex lives in that area, so I've been to that Publix a lot. Great Publix. I think more locals than tourists (especially right now) actually, though that may have changed in recent years.

Small world. I might have been in there the same time as you. I was the guy standing in front of the beer aisle trying to decide which 6 packs to get

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

It’s a private business so they have a right to decide to open or not.

Disney is not a private business - they are a publically traded corporation and have to answer to a board of directors and shareholders.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

There needs to be a reason they specifically have to pull the plug though. If they close, it will be like a public statement that even the most extreme precautions don't work. I don't believe that is true and want proof if it is.

see below

The assumption here is that delaying the opening would in fact help to protect the surrounding communities.

That is half the story...but for Disney, it’s about the PR of their gold mine...which runs under people across the world.

Can’t be seen as wanting one day’s meager take at the risk of the customers well being. Fundamentally that’s the measuring stick.

Disney doesn’t really need to provide any proof of anything. It’s a private business so they have a right to decide to open or not. What proof existed in March (when they first shut down) that theme parks were leading to spread? If they choose to delay the opening I’m sure they will point to an uptick in cases recently with an emphasis on protecting their employees and opening when things improve on the ground. That’s all the evidence they would likely provide.

I’d bet the farm...and the ranch...and the con agra factory...they WANT to be ordered shut.

But they aren’t in the right place to get it.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Small world. I might have been in there the same time as you. I was the guy standing in front of the beer aisle trying to decide which 6 packs to get

...get all of them.

 

[milordsloth]

I think the precautions Disney is taking are smart, responsible and well done, and it's true that if we had things somewhat under control, it'd be a good idea to open. The problem is, when the virus is raging out of control, it starts to become advisable to shut down even things that are mostly--but not totally--safe. Small risks start adding up when there are lots of positive cases floating around. Are you likely to catch the virus in a restroom? In a break room with co-workers? In a store with doors open? If there are just a few cases, the risk is really minimal. But start adding in lots of positive cases and even with low-risk exposures you're going to get spread. It's a major bummer because I want Disney to open too!

At some point we need businesses to open (safely), even with rising cases. The government can't just keep printing money and paying everyone to stay home. Not to mention all the small businesses that will be closed permanently.

 

[GoofGoof]

Disney is not a private business - they are a publically traded corporation and have to answer to a board of directors and shareholders.

That really doesn’t change my point. They are a private entity in the sense that they are not a public entity like a beach or a state park. They could simply say we don’t want to open so we aren’t. They don’t need to explain why to anyone in the public. A public entity like a state park or a beach can only be closed by the government and the government would be obligated to provide a reason to the public. My point is that demanding that Disney provide proof of anything is pointless since they are under no obligation to do so.

 

[mickeymiss]

Disney doesn’t really need to provide any proof of anything. It’s a private business so they have a right to decide to open or not. What proof existed in March (when they first shut down) that theme parks were leading to spread? If they choose to delay the opening I’m sure they will point to an uptick in cases recently with an emphasis on protecting their employees and opening when things improve on the ground. That’s all the evidence they would likely provide.

I am coming to terms with the possibility that they will close but it undermines the whole premise of safely opening a business. Wear the mask, they said. It works, they said. Stop mentioning the protests because they wore masks and it worked. Masks are the way forward. Nevermind, shut it down again

I respect the intention behind rolling back but how long do we do this for? We were never promised elimination of the virus. Not ever, not once. I remember them emphatically saying that our stay home efforts weren't intended to eliminate it. We would likely all get it at some point but we want to slow it down and protect the most vulnerable. Now we are here.

I will want the years of my life back trying to get those park reservations

 

[GoofGoof]

Hospitalizations also jumped by 329 people, marking the third-highest, single-day change since the start of the pandemic. Only April 29 and May 16 had higher increases, with the highest in May hitting 400 hospitalizations in 24 hours."

I thought it was all young people getting infected and they were all recovering fast with no symptoms.

 

[BrianLo]

I’ll preface by saying I’m confident Disney will do everything in their power to achieve a reasonably safe environment. However:

1) Florida isn’t currently very safe
2) WDW In particular while safe, encourages huge amounts of mobility. It’s not just about guests being safe on property, but the inherent number of out of state guests the parks opening encourages. This is different than the local grocery store.

Mobility is unfortunately the biggest contributor and really makes contact tracing difficult. As much as WDW tries to be a bubble. Thousands and thousands of people will enter and exit it every day.

 

[hopemax]

I asked for proof that outbreaks are linked to businesses that are taking extraordinary precautions. There are vast differences in risk levels and decisions should be guided by that. We can't keep doing this open and close and delay routine. It's not always data based. It has become all knee jerk reactions and it's not fair to companies doing it right.

Sometimes the prudent course of action is to "shut it all down." When there are recalls for romaine lettuce due to e coli or listeria, they recall all of it for the region affected. They don't wait to find out which specific farm is the culprit. If they wait for that, people get sick and people die.

I feel like this is a little, "I know there are bombs dropping, but are they dropping directly over WDW?" As if bombs dropping anywhere near WDW shouldn't be enough to keep people away. It may not be fair that "good" businesses get caught up, but as they say, "life ain't fair."

EDIT: Because of an apparent lack of comprehension, please interpret "shut it all down" as "cast a wide net."

 

[Jrb1979]

I am coming to terms with the possibility that they will close but it undermines the whole premise of safely opening a business. Wear the mask, they said. It works, they said. Stop mentioning the protests because they wore masks and it worked. Masks are the way forward. Nevermind, shut it down again

I respect the intention behind rolling back but how long do we do this for? We were never promised elimination of the virus. Not ever, not once. I remember them emphatically saying that our stay home efforts weren't intended to eliminate it. We would likely all get it at some point but we want to slow it down and protect the most vulnerable. Now we are here.

I will want the years of my life back trying to get those park reservations

It never was going to eliminate the virus but the goal upon reopening was to keep cases low. Since Florida has cases rising you pause at opening and moving onto the next stage. I look at how it was handled where I live and our cases have been under 200 for a few weeks.

 

[milordsloth]

Sometimes the prudent course of action is to "shut it all down." When there are recalls for romaine lettuce due to e coli or listeria, they recall all of it for the region affected. They don't wait to find out which specific farm is the culprit. If they wait for that, people get sick and people die.

I feel like this is a little, "I know there are bombs dropping, but are they dropping directly over WDW?" As if bombs dropping anywhere near WDW shouldn't be enough to keep people away. It may not be fair that "good" businesses get caught up, but as they say, "life ain't fair."

Here you go for those posters that have been saying "no one is saying to shut it all down"...

We were already shut down for months and cannot afford to just close everything again. Stay open with rules in place.

 

[mickeymiss]

Sometimes the prudent course of action is to "shut it all down." When there are recalls for romaine lettuce due to e coli or listeria, they recall all of it for the region affected. They don't wait to find out which specific farm is the culprit. If they wait for that, people get sick and people die.

I feel like this is a little, "I know there are bombs dropping, but are they dropping directly over WDW?" As if bombs dropping anywhere near WDW shouldn't be enough to keep people away. It may not be fair that "good" businesses get caught up, but as they say, "life ain't fair."

That's an interesting point but is it comparable to shutting down our economy again and destroying more lives associated with that (perhaps needlessly) as opposed to removing some lettuce off retail shelves? It doesn't feel like the same strategies apply. There are grave consequences to shutting down whereas safe re-openings have been largely successful. Still waiting for someone to procure evidence that they haven't been.

 

[InnKpr]

The state also added 68 deaths, bringing the seven-day average up to about 42 deaths each day

Hospitalizations also jumped by 329 people

But... but... wearing a face covering is such a hassle, and I really want that weekend trip with the fellows. Those people you listed just don't comprehend what I'm having to sacrifice...

 

[hopemax]

Here you go for those posters that have been saying "no one is saying to shut it all down"...

We were already shut down for months and cannot afford to just close everything again. Stay open with rules in place.

What you are implying is NOT what I was implying, and I know you know that. And I know everyone that has been participating in this forum knows that, based on my participation in this thread. So keep playing word games, if you must.

EDIT to point out my EDIT in the post being called out

EDIT: Because of an apparent lack of comprehension, please interpret "shut it all down" as "cast a wide net."

 

[GoofGoof]

I am coming to terms with the possibility that they will close but it undermines the whole premise of safely opening a business. Wear the mask, they said. It works, they said. Stop mentioning the protests because they wore masks and it worked. Masks are the way forward. Nevermind, shut it down again

I respect the intention behind rolling back but how long do we do this for? We were never promised elimination of the virus. Not ever, not once. I remember them emphatically saying that our stay home efforts weren't intended to eliminate it. We would likely all get it at some point but we want to slow it down and protect the most vulnerable. Now we are here.

I will want the years of my life back trying to get those park reservations

You have to disconnect the debate here with the decisions of a multi-national corporation. Whether people here think WDW should or shouldn’t open is irrelevant. Nobody saying they should stay shut down is going to cause it to happen. Even the petitions are pretty irrelevant. They know that some people are going to be opposed no matter when they open, they also know some people are in favor no matter what. TWDC management and BoD has an obligation to its workers to ensure a safe working environment. So far they seem to be doing that on paper at least. It would be hard to say they aren’t making their best effort to keep CMs safe once they open (again, assuming they follow through on the actual plan).

They also have an obligation to shareholders to maintain and increase the value of the company. That’s where the tricky part comes in. PR is a real concern. I’m sure the internal debate revolves around damage to their image if an outbreak is linked back to them when they chose to open during a spike in cases. Opening any time has its risks, but that’s why you have a plan. The plan since the shut down included opening when the situation on the ground was safe enough to do so. Why did Disney wait until July 15 instead of opening June 1? They had the same plans to re-open back then. They would have had the blessing of the government if they asked. They waited put of caution. That could be the same reason they would delay an opening now. Not saying they will. Just that they could.

 

[lazyboy97o]

If that was the case, wouldn’t the game store be safer than the grocery store because you are interacting with vastly fewer people in a game store? The way I understood is it’s more about the length of encounters vs number of encounters. If social distancing is enforced, I don’t see why Disney is any worse than running down to the local Publix. That being said, I understand how people are stupid and enforcement in a place the size of the parks could be problematic.

You can't look at it in isolation. It's not just how many people you are interacting with in that one venue at one small moment, its over hours, days, weeks. Time and quantity are both a factor because it is ultimately about exposure. We don’t yet know enough about what is too much exposure and your body doesn’t care if you only acquired a little bit of virus from many people if it was in the right time frame. To use a somewhat crude metaphor it’s like Russian Roulette with six shooters. With one gun you increase your odds of getting shot each time you pull the trigger (this is the issue of time). One shot from six guns (multiple, brief interactions) may not have the same progressive increase in your odds of a negative outcome as they reset each time but if you start increasing that number of guns your exposing yourself more and more.

I am coming to terms with the possibility that they will close but it undermines the whole premise of safely opening a business. Wear the mask, they said. It works, they said. Stop mentioning the protests because they wore masks and it worked. Masks are the way forward. Nevermind, shut it down again

Nobody has said these measure are absolute. Every interaction with a means of mitigation is an opportunity for failure.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

That's an interesting point but is it comparable to shutting down our economy again and destroy more lives associated with that

Even if America was magically protected from the virus our economy would be in terrible condition. Nobody is traveling internationally for fun. The American tourist attractions need international tourists to make the big money. That’s not going to happen no matter what we do.

The Disney employees who were furloughed are getting unemployment... their lives are not destroyed. What are the thousands of people who work in the broadway industry in nyc going to do for the rest of the year? Plus we have mass layoffs of airlines coming up in October probably.

I don’t know what the solution is but opening disney doesn’t fix the economy and I would argue that opening Florida and other states too fast will hurt their economy in the long run.

 

[oceanbreeze77]

Disney doesn’t really need to provide any proof of anything. It’s a private business so they have a right to decide to open or not. What proof existed in March (when they first shut down) that theme parks were leading to spread? If they choose to delay the opening I’m sure they will point to an uptick in cases recently with an emphasis on protecting their employees and opening when things improve on the ground. That’s all the evidence they would likely provide.

Yes, this is exactly what I am saying when I say that they dont need their PR statement to reflect EXACTLY what's happening internally.

 

[GoofGoof]

1) Florida isn’t currently very safe

I think that the biggest issue with the PR around the opening is that perception nationally. Fear that they will be opening at a time when the general public perceives it to be dangerous. IMHO Disney delayed their opening partially to give the appearance that they were being more conservative or cautious than their peers. That strategy may have actually backfired as I think it’s an easier PR sell to remain open than to re-open during an uptick period.