Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I'm afraid we can't wait for empirical studies to implement measures. There are ethical principles that prevent scientists from deliberately exposing people to the virus. Ideally you'd have 1000 people in a space, some of them infected, and then measure different amounts of masks, different types of masks, different distances, different numbers of infected people at different stages, different air quality, different participant ages, genders, pre-existing conditions, etc., and then see who got infected and who didn't. We'd learn a lot that way and get great data, and could make precise recommendations. But it's not allowed (obviously), so we have to do things like put screens up between hamsters, measure droplets, or just use observational data.

Right now it seems that staying farther apart, being outside, and wearing masks help to prevent the spread. It also makes logical sense (e.g., how will you infect me from 100 ft away on a windy day?). But we can't blame scientists or policy-makers for not having better data on exact effectiveness of measures. There's nothing that can be done about that.

I’ve heard “fauci doesn’t know what he’s talking about” being used in recent weeks for people being spoiled, selfish, and ultimately genetically stupid.

He doesn’t know how everything will move...that’s why it’s rolling based on data collection. He didn’t build the damn virus. It’s not a Toyota.

But the real problem is what the US was never going to show: patience and sacrifice.

It’s required and it’s not there. The fact that the WW2 generation is gone has never been more evident than 2020. The generations since have been spoiled...with amplification.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

How do we copy an island nation with massively lower population and minimal diversity? They can't be compared at all in my opinion.

By doing exactly what they did to eradicate the virus? What did they do that is unique to an island nation?

 

[hopemax]

In all fairness, though, there isn't much evidence in general as to how this virus behaves. The government and its agencies have to make decisions based on incomplete data, so they will likely err on the side of caution. I'm giving them a break on this one. But when evidence does become available, I hope it will be analyzed to see if changes can be made.

The thing is, within the epidemiology community, if you read their blogs, Twitter, etc the general consensus of "are masks useful?" was settled during SARS and MERS. Which is why they have been confused by the WHO and CDC recommendations. Which is why Asia went straight to masks. The community thinks there are far more important and necessary studies the epi and virology communities need to be doing than proving to obstinate Americans that masks are the way to go.

 

[legwand77]

I agree with you on many things, this isn't one.

Read this article and it has a link to all the evidence you want on how effective masks are including the studies the recommendations were based on.

Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) is a virus (more specifically, a coronavirus) identified as the cause of an outbreak of respiratory illness first detected in Wuhan, China.

www.cdc.gov

Also, a quick google search on how Japan and Thailand smashed this thing is primarily because of the use of masks.

Also none of those sources listed in that article are about the effectiveness of cloth masks, they are only about detailed the risk of presymptomatic or asymptomatic transmission not about cloth mask effectiveness.

 

[Lilofan]

Press Release

With the cruise line not being able to sail until after Sept 15, that seems to be a number of cruise line cast members still not working. Covid is impacting the cruise line industry tremendously.

 

[Chi84]

The thing is, within the epidemiology community, if you read their blogs, Twitter, etc the general consensus of "are masks useful?" was settled during SARS and MERS. Which is why they have been confused by the WHO and CDC recommendations. Which is why Asia went straight to masks. The community thinks there are far more important and necessary studies the epi and virology communities need to be doing than proving to obstinate Americans that masks are the way to go.

I'm against being too critical of our government during this time, but it may have helped if we hadn't been told at the outset that this was no worse than the flu and that masks were not effective and not recommended. This was against a backdrop of pictures of healthcare workers treating patients in negative pressure rooms while wearing head to toe protective gear and pictures of Chinese, Italians and South Koreans all wearing masks. We're playing catch up.

 

[DisneyDebRob]

Where's our task force? Why can't we know what patterns they see in cases and transmission? If bars are the problem in Florida, work on that. Manufacturing, nursing homes, etc. We have been left in complete darkness about what they are observing about the virus. We should all be united in wanting to know what they've been up to these past few weeks. They know something. They interview those who become infected and can often trace things back. Let us know what you know so we can understand. Otherwise it feels like drive-by fear when there's usually much more going on that they could discuss.

It was taken off the air 40 some days ago.

 

[DisneyDebRob]

Desantis just gave a briefing addressing exactly the things you mentioned, and Florida is much more transparent about data than most states. It is all here https://floridahealthcovid19.gov/

There isn't a big conspiracy

More transparent then other states?

 

[lazyboy97o]

I'm against being too critical of our government during this time, but it may have helped if we hadn't been told at the outset that this was no worse than the flu and that masks were not effective and not recommended. This was against a backdrop of pictures of healthcare workers treating patients in negative pressure rooms while wearing head to toe protective gear and pictures of Asians, Italians and South Koreans all wearing masks. We're playing catch up.

Even that isn’t quite the reversal people claim. Telling people not to wear masks was about protecting oneself and preventing a run on equipment. That remains true. At that same time even Dr. Fauci was saying those who are feeling ill should wear a mask to prevent spread. What actually changed is who is thought to be contagious.

 

[oceanbreeze77]

More transparent then other states?

I'm sorry, I have to laugh

 

[legwand77]

Can you link those for me? I'd like to read them. I believe the WHO is now aligned with the CDC guidance on masks as well.

From the revised June 5th WHO guidance , after when they got a lot of flack for saying masks weren't needed.

At present, there is no direct evidence (from studies on COVID-19 and in healthy people in the community) on the effectiveness of universal masking of healthy people in the community to prevent infection with respiratory viruses, including COVID-19.

https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/handle/10665/332293/WHO-2019-nCov-IPC_Masks-2020.4-eng.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y

They still recommend but based on no real evidence

and from the cdc

note under filtration.

I personally don't care either way if people wear a mask or not, it is just interesting it is based on no real evidence

 

[mickeymiss]

Even that isn’t quite the reversal people claim. Telling people not to wear masks was about protecting oneself and preventing a run on equipment. That remains true. At that same time even Dr. Fauci was saying those who are feeling ill should wear a mask to prevent spread. What actually changed is who is thought to be contagious.

I still strongly suspect asymptomatic and pre-symptomatic people are more likely to infect a really really close contact than a stranger on the bus, for example. Maybe I'll be wrong but that's what I believe and none of the experts seem interested in talking to the public anymore.

 

[DisneyDebRob]

I'm not even sure who that celebrity could be. Anyone old, like Betty White, "would have died anyway." Too many others will be rated on their political advocacy. Tom Hanks was a possibility, but he's already recovered. It would have to be someone associated with the values of the people who won't wear masks or social distance. But many of those people will be granted access to the best medical practices, like Boris Johnson had.

Hey! Leave my girl Betty out of this. A National treasure right there.

 

[TrojanUSC]

This is the most amazing part, the government ruling/guidance is based on no actual evidence.

Meanwhile, back in the world of science and data:

Austria Has 90% Drop in Coronavirus Cases After Requiring People to Wear Face Masks

Austria managed to slow down the rate of coronavirus cases in the country by 90% after requiring everyone to wear a face mask. Meanwhile, other countries are struggling to keep the number of cases and fatalities low.

www.sciencetimes.com

 

[legwand77]

Meanwhile, back in the world of science and data:

Austria Has 90% Drop in Coronavirus Cases After Requiring People to Wear Face Masks

Austria managed to slow down the rate of coronavirus cases in the country by 90% after requiring everyone to wear a face mask. Meanwhile, other countries are struggling to keep the number of cases and fatalities low.

www.sciencetimes.com

I am sorry, that "article" reference is the Daily Mail leads off with "According to Daily Mail", quite the opposite of science and data , but click bait and whatever. There is no data in it. Might as well get your science from supermarket tabloid. Plus it is 2 months old

 

[lazyboy97o]

I still strongly suspect asymptomatic and pre-symptomatic people are more likely to infect a really really close contact than a stranger on the bus, for example. Maybe I'll be wrong but that's what I believe and none of the experts seem interested in talking to the public anymore.

Yeah... You’re more likely to be less vigilant and have close, prolonged interactions with someone you know well.

 

[danlb_2000]

I understand but this is also part of living in a free country. I'm in a very restricted state that has had low case counts. Masks can't be enforced here or anywhere. It comes down to making our own risk assessments. Whatever they are doing at grocery stores seems to be working well despite varying mask compliance. I think distancing and basic practical caution is as important as the masks.

This would be a lot simpler if it was just a question of personal risk, but but your choices impact others as well as yourself.

 

[oceanbreeze77]

This would be a lot simpler if it was just a question of personal risk, but but your choices impact others as well as yourself.

and those of the healthcare workers, many of who have worked tirelessly throughout the pandemic.

 

[Andrew C]

This calls for an early 90s style slogan...“be cool, wear a mask in between brewskies and around your buds.”

Spoiler

oh man that was God awful.

 

[Chomama]

I am not a political person. I don’t comment much here either. I just don’t understand what is hard to understand about masks. This is a photo of what happens for anyone that doesn’t understand. It isn’t complicated and if for some reason you still don’t want to wear one, please stay home. I say that not out of anger or spite. It’s just very frustrating to watch others argue about this over and over. If it only Slows the Spread 20% that makes a difference.