Congress Questions Next Gen

[Skyway]

Is this "tracking" any different from what could be observd with the naked eye? If an employee could observe how guests move about the property and take notes as to those movements, what's the big deal if that observation is streamlined and digitized?

Imagine if the company in question is not Disney, but something like Walmart or Target.

Would you find it creepy for an employee to quietly follow young children around the store, documenting every aisle they walk down, every toy they pick up and show their mom, every snack food they beg to buy, and every purchase their parents make for them? Would it bother you if that employee then confronted the parents in the parking lot, clipboard in hand, asking the child's name, age, address, hometown, and interests?

I think most would be a little uncomfortable, and that's with an employee physically following them and clearly conducting a survey.

Now imagine that instead of a person, the company's spy is an innocent-looking bracelet decorated with cartoon characters. Does that really make it any different or better?

Also, most adults will assume that the Walmart survey taker is collecting data for marketing purposes. Many might choose not to answer the questions, and certainly wouldn't let their kids talk to the employee unsupervised.

But when a parent is inputting their mailing address and kids names on the Disney website while planning a special vacation, are they really thinking that they are also handing over that info to the same invisible survey taker who is now secretly following their kids around the park, clinging to their wrists?

Should it be the parent's sole responsibility to read all the fine print before sharing their kids' personal data, especially if the company doesn't clearly communicate how it will be used (and doesn't say how your vacation experience will be hampered if you say no)? Parents should also monitor what their kids watch on TV, but does that mean the government should not regulate alcohol and other advertisements during children's daytime programming?

These seem like the questions the Congressman wants answered.

 

[Maerj]

I find it ironic that a politician is so concerned about this, yet the Federal gov't is spying on it's citizens more than ever. That is a much bigger concern than a theme park experience.

 

[Malin]

This is Disney's own fault for announcing something to the public without full information on how it's going to work and what privacy information will be collected. Since My Magic + was first announced so many questions still need answering some of which I'm not even certain Disney have the answers to yet. Although I agree with other posters that Disney's Lawyers are prepared for legal challenges. I just hope Mr Iger has the answers.

 

[Joseph Robinson]

Imagine if the company in question is not Disney, but something like Walmart or Target.

Would you find it creepy for an employee to quietly follow young children around the store, documenting every aisle they walk down, every toy they pick up and show their mom, every snack food they beg to buy, and every purchase their parents make for them? Would it bother you if that employee then confronted the parents in the parking lot, clipboard in hand, asking the child's name, age, address, hometown, and interests?

I think most would be a little uncomfortable, and that's with an employee physically following them and clearly conducting a survey.

Now imagine that instead of a person, the company's spy is an innocent-looking bracelet decorated with cartoon characters. Does that really make it any different or better?

Also, most adults will assume that the Walmart survey taker is collecting data for marketing purposes. Many might choose not to answer the questions, and certainly wouldn't let their kids talk to the employee unsupervised.

But when a parent is inputting their mailing address and kids names on the Disney website while planning a special vacation, are they really thinking that they are also handing over that info to the same invisible survey taker who is now secretly following their kids around the park, clinging to their wrists?

Should it be the parent's sole responsibility to read all the fine print before sharing their kids' personal data, especially if the company doesn't clearly communicate how it will be used (and doesn't hurt your vacation experience if you say no)? Parents should also monitor what their kids watch on TV, but does that mean the government should not regulate alcohol and other advertisements during children's daytime programming?

These seem like the questions the Congressman wants answered.

Ever let your kid on the internet? That kind of tracking already happens. Complete non-story here.

 

[bsiev1977]

I find it ironic that a politician is so concerned about this, yet the Federal gov't is spying on it's citizens more than ever. That is a much bigger concern than a theme park experience.

Nothing more that a Congressman taking on a high profile company, in an attempt to make a name for himself in regard to an "issue" that isn't much of an issue in the grand scheme of things.

 

[hsisthebest]

target and walmart already do this. this is an article about Target sending pregnancy congratulations and coupons to women before they or spouse (or parents) know
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmir...teen-girl-was-pregnant-before-her-father-did/

 

[Skyway]

Ever let your kid on the internet? That kind of tracking already happens. Complete non-story here.

Yep. And I monitor what websites they visit and what info they enter.

The question is whether the mother from Arkansas planning her family's dream vacation realizes she's allowing her young daughter to give up the same type of personal information she'd never allow her child to enter on their home computer.

Complete legitimate story here.

 

[GrumpyFan]

Imagine if the company in question is not Disney, but something like Walmart or Target.

Would you find it creepy for an employee to quietly follow young children around the store, documenting every aisle they walk down, every toy they pick up and show their mom, every snack food they beg to buy, and every purchase their parents make for them? Would it bother you if that employee then confronted the parents in the parking lot, clipboard in hand, asking the child's name, age, address, hometown, and interests?

Wait a second. Disney's "tracking" in this case, isn't this intrusive. Sure, they may be able to tell where you went specifically, and what you bought, but it's not in a following/predator kind of sense any more than the web browser or internet provided you're currently using that's "tracking" you. It's historical, sure, but the data is short-termed and then compiled with 40,000 others' data for the day then probably rolled up into a trend analysis tool. Yes, they have the ability to see you, but they don't care about what you specifically do, what they want to know is what a specific group of people did or didn't do. I should add, just like what Wal-mart currently does, so they can try and place their hot items in your path where you might be influenced to buy it next time you visit.

 

[AVPTI]

Yep. And I monitor what websites they visit and what info they enter.

The question is whether the mother from Arkansas planning her family's dream vacation realizes she's allowing her young daughter to give up the same type of personal information she'd never allow her child to enter on their home computer.

Complete legitimate story here.

Information like age, name, and birthdate?

The same info Disney already asks for when you stay on property?

The only "location" info Disney will have will be what approximate area you're in. One of the two RFID chips will be for purchases and room key. The other is used for short range radio waves (10ft) to "ping" the receiver. Those receivers are planned for attractions to customize the attraction. Disney won't know you or your child's exact coordinates on planet Earth.

 

[Joseph Robinson]

Yep. And I monitor what websites they visit and what info they enter.

Which is still more than enough for advertisers to get the information that they want and need, because at the end of the day that is what NextGen really helps with. Any conspiracy theories about tracking for nefarious reasons is foolish. They just want to know the who, what, when, where, and why of advertising.

The people that don't like that can only avoid it by becoming a hermit in the woods.

The question is whether the mother from Arkansas planning her family's dream vacation realizes she's allowing her young daughter to give up the same type of personal information she'd never allow her child to enter on their home computer.

The question is what your idea of "personal information" is. As has already been stated, the information that Disney can gather is information that is already easily available to them. They're just getting better at it. If that bothers you? See hermit in the woods comment above.

Complete legitimate story here.

In the heads of some, but they, and this congressman, won't get anything out of it besides forcing Disney to play a PR game before they do what they want anyways.

 

[GrumpyFan]

Ever let your kid on the internet? That kind of tracking already happens. Complete non-story here.

Yep, that's why you see specific ads on the pages you visit, like they do here at top and bottom. They're based on other sites you've visited recently as well as other factors which they use to try and determine who you (or your kid) are so they can try to sell you something. Not a whole lot different.

 

[HMF]

Not sure if anyone has seen this yet. Rep. Ed Markey - D Mass. is asking Disney to address privacy issues related to Next Gen.
http://markey.house.gov/sites/markey.house.gov/files/documents/Letter -- Disney -- 1-24-13.pdf
Could be nothing or could lead to interesting discussions.

Finally,it's good to see that a national debate is happening rather than the nextgen debate being confined solely to the Disney Blogosphere.

 

[Monty]

Nice to see the tin-hat brigade and Spirit sycophants jumping in...

U. S. of A. you're paranoid conspiracy theorist reputation is solidly intact!

 

[Tigger1988]

Information like age, name, and birthdate?

The same info Disney already asks for when you stay on property?

The only "location" info Disney will have will be what approximate area you're in. One of the two RFID chips will be for purchases and room key. The other is used for short range radio waves (10ft) to "ping" the receiver. Those receivers are planned for attractions to customize the attraction. Disney won't know you or your child's exact coordinates on planet Earth.

Stop making sense, it's simply not allowed!

 

[Joseph Robinson]

Finally,it's good to see that a national debate is happening rather than the nextgen debate being confined solely to the Disney Blogosphere.

Yeah...outside of the Disney Blogosphere this won't reach many outside of ardent viewers of the 24 hour news cycle and C-Span. Neither audience (or the current audience for that matter) is as big as you would hope and a large number that do watch won't be educated or informed enough to come to an intelligent conclusion regarding the content.

 

[Skyway]

Any conspiracy theories about tracking for nefarious reasons is foolish. They just want to know the who, what, when, where, and why of advertising.

I agree wholeheartedly that Disney has no interest in tracking individuals' movements.

And yes, consenting (and many naive) adults constantly share personal info to corporations in the 21st Century.

The issue involves ethically obtaining data from CHILDREN, who cannot legally consent to anything.

Is a parent's consent adequate? Is the parent truly consenting when they're misled into the reasons why they're sharing data, or pressured into consenting because to not do so would deprive them full access to their dream vacation?

I don't claim to know the answers. No one on these boards can either. But they are fair questions to ask. And it seems like a congressman is asking them, no matter what his own personal motivation might be.

 

[Rasvar]

Just an FYI on the band technology. There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding. They are not only RFID. The bands contain two different kinds of RFID that require proximity to a reader. However, they also have an 802.11 identifier that communicates with a non-public wifi network in the parks. The 802.11 allows geolocation of the band to a general area. A much higher mesh of Access Points will be needed to get high precision location. The retail shops would be the most likely to leverage more precise location so they can process advanced analytics on how people shop. Detailed tracking does not appear to be in the first phase. It takes a lot more infrastructure. But you can be sure it is being investigated. It is the 802.11 part of the band that will allow you to get detailed text messages and offers using a data push system to a registered smartphone. That will likely be used for that function much more than the apps because the public side of the network will not be as geolocationaly accurate.

 

[HMF]

I find it ironic that a politician is so concerned about this, yet the Federal gov't is spying on it's citizens more than ever. That is a much bigger concern than a theme park experience.

That is true, unfortunately.

 

[Joseph Robinson]

I agree wholeheartedly that Disney has no interest in tracking individuals' movements.

Not what I said. In fact, they have every incentive to track your movements and behaviors on their property. That's just smart business.

And yes, consenting (and many naive) adults constantly share personal info to corporations in the 21st Century.

The issue involves ethically obtaining data from CHILDREN, who cannot legally consent to anything.

How is data for children any different? And do you really think it isn't happening? Once again, unless your kid lives in the woods, completely cut off from society, advertising agencies are already gathering and tracking data. They don't need parents to say "OK, you can track my kids data." Parents do that when they put their kid in front of the TV, let them on the computer, heck every time they let them out of the house.

The real naivety is people believing that advertisers can't and shouldn't be able to find patterns and use them to their advantage. It isn't illegal, and that's what everyone signed up for when they sung the praises of capitalism.

No conspiracy here, welcome to the world.

Is a parent's consent adequate? Is the parent truly consenting when they're misled into the reasons why they're sharing data, or pressured into consenting because to not do so would deprive them full access to their dream vacation?

They aren't misled, if we want to talk about parents being unable to figure out the basics of this idea we'll have to get into the failures of education. That is an entirely different conversation.

I don't claim to know the answers. No one on these boards can either. But they are fair questions to ask. And it seems like a congressman is asking them, no matter what his own personal motivation might be.

Any question is a fair question to ask; but that doesn't make it a good one or the right one.

 

[Rasvar]

I find it ironic that a politician is so concerned about this, yet the Federal gov't is spying on it's citizens more than ever. That is a much bigger concern than a theme park experience.

Federal government has far more restrictions on what data it can keep and share. I am a thousand time more concerned about the data companies keep and sell about me than anything the government has on me. It takes a lot of time to opt-out of all that corporate data sharing. I've seen both a government security check on me and a report gathered from corporate data that is available for sale. The corporate report had far more detail than I thought was out there. It really opened my eye to doing the opt-outs on those annual privacy notices no matter how much of a pain they are.