TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
do you have evidence that the DCA revamp didn’t work out and required a pivot?
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News Chapek FIRED, Iger New CEO
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el_super
Well-Known Member
Eisner's later years were marked by trying to expand the concept of "Disney" beyond its then current confines. Disney as a cruise line, Disney as a regional entertainment provider, Disney as an internet search portal...
Iger's early success was marked by pivoting back to their core businesses - making movies, making animated features and theme parks.
What would the "new" vision be now? Pivoting back to the original Iger plan of only focusing on the core or pivoting back to the Eisner plan of expanding out into something new?
el_super
Well-Known Member
Yeah: the pivot itself.
As for the second point, well we can agree to disagree. Never said should apologize of the acquistions, those are Bobs best moves. The intentional veering of content in movies and the pricing/Genie plus are issues that a public apology would do them good, I know it will not happen but I am just saying it would do them good--again just my opinion.
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TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
That’s not evidence that the pivot was necessary. That’s like saying people mover rocket rods was necessary because it happened.
I specifically said the pricing/Genie+ is something that would befit an apology. The content of the movies is not. The movies are still great, and people are intentionally putting their thumb on the scale to make it seem otherwise. There's nothing to apologize for in the movies or the shows.
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The "Doomers" don't even know what "the core" even is anymore, let alone whether to pivot. That's because, again, all that matters is that they're right and Disney is wrong. Even when it isn't true.
el_super
Well-Known Member
Closing the PeopleMover was necessary. It was an old attraction with almost no attendance and a maintenance nightmare.
How do you think the pivot happened then? You think that, back in 2007, Iger was briefed on all the issues facing DCA and the suspected causes by WDI, seemed to understand it (when he made that "brand withdrawal" quote) and then somehow, after 2012, he was visited by three ghosts that convinced him that creatives should never be trusted again?
el_super
Well-Known Member
Pretty much.
I still think the move toward streaming absolutely made sense, despite the rough effort to get it going. Aside from streaming, I don't think any real pivot is needed at all.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
John was very involved in Cars Land but not involved as much with the rest of the project. Pixar Place was also very much motivated by making him happy.
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
I’m guessing he was more involved than Iger though. Lol
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
“The pivot” is the Bob’s thinking everything with modern IP is the answer because they don’t understand theme parks and don’t trust the people in imagineering.
That’s how I think it happened. Lol
Bender123
Well-Known Member
In what world are Pixar, Marvel, Lucasfilm or Fox "doing well"?
Marvel is no longer a "sure fire blockbuster" in the theaters and the shows have, based on Disneys own data, underperformed on streaming. Pixar hasnt had a profitable film in several years. Lucasfilm killed a fan base for Star Wars and is now going to be on the hook for 300+ Million in loses for Indy 5...The streaming numbers for Star Wars keep sinking. Fox has a few bright spots, but they arent excatly company making numbers. The Disney "updating" of classic stories reeks of 1990s direct to video sequel land and, have proven to have a downward trend, with Mermaid breaking even, at best.
Disney has lost the plot of what makes their property beloved. They arent making things that connect with people the way they used to and are openly hostile to much of the old fan bases that made their properties so valuable.
Disney needs to figure out what their brand is, who their customers are and where the profits come from, because they have a massive payout due next year for Hulu and a whole bunch of box office bombs lined up from last year to next, without a real "surefire" profit engine in the films division on the horizon.
I love Disney, but they are reeling...There is no white hat riding in to save the day and their wounds are self inflicted.
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Can you point me to the data that Disney has published? I can't find it.
Some people have characterized Marvel shows as "underperforming" based on Nielsen's top ten lists.
And yes, some Marvel shows/movies don't grab the number 1 slot.
But they're still appearing on the top ten list. Being in the top ten is absolutely *not* underperforming.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
“Nondescript roller coaster themed like India or Whatever” says it all.
Bender123
Well-Known Member
I should clarify, its not exclusively "Marvel" on streaming, but here we are...Not exactly a secret that Disney streaming is not looking good. The other issue is how much those shows cost. If there is any validity to "Secret Invasion" costing $200 Million+, then I dont know how you ever make that a success without massive merch sales, tie ins, etc...
On an anecdotal note, I used to know a lot of people who watched every Marvel/Star Wars show...now, outside a person or two, all my "normie" friends stopped watching them all. Ahsoka looks pretty cool, but Im not sure I can convince my wife to watch an array of kids cartoons to understand who all these people are.
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
Exactly.
Bender123
Well-Known Member
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=ab+inbev+stock
Wow...down 12% since April...obviously doing very very well.
Look at Indy 5 go... https://fortune.com/2023/07/19/disney-indiana-jones-dial-destiny-box-office-bomb-lucasfilm/
Wow...look at Little Mermaid swim... https://www.dexerto.com/tv-movies/t...office-how-much-has-2023-remake-made-2159227/ Hollywood math on a $250M budget is about $125M in marketing = $275M in spend. $556M worldwide (remember that Disney gets far less from international markets than US as a percentage of ticket sales) Disney would need to make about $550-$575M to break even.
Star Wars is doing great, with the first box office loser in franchise history and diminishing returns on the Disney trilogy all the way to the end. https://screenrant.com/star-wars-mo.../#star-wars-episode-ii---attack-of-the-clones
So successful they closed down the hotel after a year, too.
I can keep sourcing info for you, but its really boring and easy.
Marvel is on an incredible hot streak that continues unabated, but people have been wanting them to fall flat on their face forever. It's the tall poppy syndrome. Cut 'em down to size. So they spread disinformation, and make it harden into reality. We're supposed to care because idiots spoil movies and shows for other idiots? I'm shaking in my boots right now.
Pixar only 'underperformed" because Chapek and Daniel moved several incredibly strong films to streaming, whereas the success of those movies at the box office, which was very certain, would've boosted Lightyear and Elemental further. And Disney's output in all the divisions, both film and TV, remains as strong, creative, vibrant and lovely as ever. Same way it was more or less true with things in the Eisner years, even at the end, with only the likes of The Country Bears and Home on the Range being truly bad.
Solo did what it did because of Alan Horn scheduling it when it was. Not the fault of the film, not the fault of Kathleen Kennedy. The vast majority of Star Wars fans I know love and accept everything about it and know that the Disney era completely aligns with what Lucas accomplished.
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TalkingHead
Well-Known Member
What are the odds the stock price drops below $80.00 after the next quarterly call?