Changes to table service dining cancellation policy - credit card requirement expands

wm49rs

A naughty bit o' crumpet
Premium Member
First of all, if you're already considering the possibility that one of your children is going to become ill, you're living in a "glass half-empty" world and you need to consider no ADRs and just stick with CS. If life is that doom-and-gloom for you, forgo the sit-down spots. I'm serious. I'm tired of listening to people portend the end of the world and expect a major corporation to help chair-lift their entire household out of any potential apocalypse, should it occur, on the off-chance, perhaps, maybe. Get over it.

And you're kidding yourself if you think you're going to make everyone happy. This forum on this website, whether its guessing how Fantasyland is progressing, or why the MSB took away the French toast loaf, is proof positive that no one is happy 100% of the time.

I sincerely hope the people who are against this ADR policy find themselves burned by it in the future. Maybe then they'll learn to stop playing with fire.

Yes, all parents consider the possibility of their children getting sick on a daily basis. It's a perk, actually, the ability to have a child get ill while on vacation, just to have prats as yourself type some callous diatribe about fines and reservations......

And while I don't expect Disney to make me happy, I also don't expect to be fined for some of the unexpected circumstances that can occur while traveling. Especially if I make the effort to speak to them about whatever the situation may be- delayed flights, sick family members, DME breaking down, the bus from my resort taking 45 minutes to arrive. You know, all of the unfortunate intangibles.....

And your well wishes aside, if you don't think Disney will make some accommodations in the future, you're sadly mistaken. No, not every time, and not for every excuse, but they are also not in the business of routinely pi$$ing off their customers either.
 

lebeau

Well-Known Member
I see this as a good thing for the walk up guests. Regardless of your thoughts on it allowing others to book up the seats online. It also may have the effect of lessening the stress on the system that the DDP causes. This is going to happen. Griping about it will not change that. Plan better or make sure that you have the emergency funds to cover your emergency. I say your emergency because when we have a sick kid and cannot make it in then that is not Disney's fault. :) But you do not agree with me, at all. So why don't we just agree to disagree? :)

I'm fine with agreeing to disagree. But here's the thing. This is a discussion board. And you're failing to back-up your opinions with any facts.

You say this is good for walk-ups. I have explained why it's bad for walk-ups. And your response is to cling to your belief in spite of evidence to the contrary. :shrug: Care to explain how you think this policy will result in more walk-ups? I'm not trying to be confrontational. I just fail to see any way in which this could be the case.

Griping could change it. If enough people react negatively, Disney will change their minds. Do I think that will happen? No. Because people are complacent. And because a lot of people understand this policy so little that they think it will benefit them.

That's not going to keep me from speaking up on the subject. This board would be pretty boring if people didn't call Disney out when they screw up.

I'm not sure why you keep telling me to set aside more money. That's never been the issue. I never leave for Orlando without an overflowing bank account.

If it's okay for Disney to charge me a fee because something unforeseeable happened, do I get a refund any time a ride breaks down? Cause I'll make that trade-off every time! ;)
 

lebeau

Well-Known Member
I agree that Disney dropped the ball. I was asking about when because if it was recent I was going to tell you to email guest services about the incident. If it had happened in the last month or so I would have given it even odds that they would have credited the money back on your account had you emailed or written them.

I should have known you were trying to be helpful. Sorry if I got defensive. I was in "argumentative mode". :eek:
 

Pioneer Hall

Well-Known Member
I have a feeling that Disney will be making more accommodations than not when it comes to this policy. My guess is that even if you call with some sort of reason within 24 hours they will probably give you the money back. I think the idea here is to really just stop no-shows, but they have to come up with some sort of policy that sounds legitimate. In my experiences Disney is usually pretty good at refunding money even when you are in their non-refundable windows. It's obviously in their best interest to help you out if something should come up. Say you were to miss your first ADR because of a very delayed flight. They certainly wouldn't want you to get upset about being charged and then go cancel all the other ADR's on your trip.

As far as the policy is concerned...I am mixed. I do hope that it cuts down on some of the abuse and helps with walk ups at some of the more popular eateries. I have to agree with others here that the dining system has gotten a little insane in terms of booking windows. Thankfully, I have had pretty good luck with getting reservations that I am looking for on a pretty short term or day of. However, since I am more local now and find myself planning visits not too far out from when I go it would be nice to see a system that benefits both groups (locals and tourists).
 

Master Yoda

Pro Star Wars geek.
Premium Member
As far as the policy is concerned...I am mixed. I do hope that it cuts down on some of the abuse and helps with walk ups at some of the more popular eateries. I have to agree with others here that the dining system has gotten a little insane in terms of booking windows.
I think part of this problem is Disney's own success. Park attendance is higher than it has ever been and restaurant expansion has never kept up. AK desperately needs a couple more TS places and MK and DHS could do with at least one more as well. Disney, via the DDP, has also made it to where people who normally would have never set foot in a TS place are now eating at 1 a day. While this has arguably had a negative effect on us regulars, I think it is a good thing for regular guests as dining at WDW is a great part of a visit to WDW. I can tell you from first hand experience that there is nothing like taking a Disney regular to their first TS meal at one of the more Disneyfied restaurants. It was like showing them a path to a part of Disney they never knew existed.

Thankfully, I have had pretty good luck with getting reservations that I am looking for on a pretty short term or day of. However, since I am more local now and find myself planning visits not too far out from when I go it would be nice to see a system that benefits both groups (locals and tourists).
The wife an I have found a good way around this. What we will do is plan what we call food only trips once maybe twice. We plan them more than 180 days out and the entire trip is organized around nothing more than eating at the places we rarely get into.
 

lebeau

Well-Known Member
Exactly. Here's what I find funny. How many of these people that are b****ing about this new rule do you think are the ones that would book 4 and 5 places at once. Most I'd assume. They're probably just upset at not being able to do what they want so easily now. :)

Why do you keep assuming this will only impact the double bookers. They are the ones least likely to be impacted.

You keep making assumptions with absolutely no support for them. :brick:

Bottom line.... It is happening, those that are on here raising h*** over it can deal with it, or eat elsewhere. We got it. They feel cheated, ripped off, or hard done by. They feel that this is going to be a major inconvenience... for them. LOL Whatever. They're never going to convince me that this is a bad thing and I'll never convince them that it is a good thing. So here's a solution, they can stay out of the places so we can go there. Problem solved. :wave:

Here's a solution. If you don't want to participate in the discussion, don't.
 

lebeau

Well-Known Member
Well this discussion has gotten to the point of just plain stupid and silly. Again, this will be happening so either shut up about it and deal with it or eat elsewhere. :rolleyes: Either way I'm fine with that. ;) I have got to unsubscribe before someone says something else that makes me sit in a catatonic state trying to keep my head from exploding from the sheer stupidity of it. Peace out! :wave:

Since you weren't contributing any substance to the debate, it's just as well you bow out.

:wave:
 

NewfieFan

Well-Known Member
Well this discussion has gotten to the point of just plain stupid and silly. Again, this will be happening so either shut up about it and deal with it or eat elsewhere. :rolleyes: Either way I'm fine with that. ;) I have got to unsubscribe before someone says something else that makes me sit in a catatonic state trying to keep my head from exploding from the sheer stupidity of it. Peace out! :wave:

According to that statement, we shouldn't discuss anything ever again! Disney is going to do what it's going to do... regardless of what a few fanboys have to say on a forum... but that hasn't stopped us in the past from having a discussion!

Wait...you mean, actually contact the company involved which would have taken five minutes as opposed to screaming about it, and still being admittedly angry a year and a half later and spending hours whining about it on a message board?

Stop with your crazy logic talk! I banish you!

Come on lay off lebeau! He's pi$$ed about $10, so what!?! I don't think he's insulted anyone here, just complained about his own happenings.

I can understand the dude... when you feel a company or business has burned you it really rubs you the wrong way (especially if it's a business you like and or support with your wallet). And this is the case whether it's $10 or $1000!!! I had an incident at HMV (the music store) happen to me years ago and I could still go on a rant about it to this day (and yes, I gave up shopping there b/c of it). My point is I'm sure we've all had a business do somthing to us that has burned us!

What about old people?

What about disabled people?

What about incontinent people?

Or people who's names begin with the letter Z, or those that simply don't want to make a ressie at all?

I know, I know..."I'm a parent, that makes me special, Disney is all about toddlers, yadda yadda". But if we are really honest, everyone could feel that an exception should be made for them, or that they shouldn't have restrictions imposed.

As a parent, you make sacrifices. Just like any other guest, then you'll have to chalk up the $10/head if you don't make your reservation.

I have two kids (ages 5 & 8) and a hubby and you're d@m right I'm special!!! And so is the family traveling with their elderly mother, and so is the family with the special needs child, and so is the single, white male, etc. We're all special, we all could have reasons to cancel within the 24hr. window and they all could be very valid reasons.

Imagine if I hit you with my stroller (who btw, has my 5 year old in it) on our way to Epcot one evening. Both your heels are scrapped up bad, you're almost crippled with the pain... there's no way you can make it to the other end of the park to catch your ADR at Chefs de France. You call and cancel and you're hit with the charge anyway. Now, not only do you have two hurting feet from some stupid guest who's not paying attention to where she's going, you're missing your ADR, you still have to find somewhere to eat, AND you're being charged a cancelation fee! That doesn't bother you, no!?!
 

Pioneer Hall

Well-Known Member
I think part of this problem is Disney's own success. Park attendance is higher than it has ever been and restaurant expansion has never kept up. AK desperately needs a couple more TS places and MK and DHS could do with at least one more as well. Disney, via the DDP, has also made it to where people who normally would have never set foot in a TS place are now eating at 1 a day. While this has arguably had a negative effect on us regulars, I think it is a good thing for regular guests as dining at WDW is a great part of a visit to WDW. I can tell you from first hand experience that there is nothing like taking a Disney regular to their first TS meal at one of the more Disneyfied restaurants. It was like showing them a path to a part of Disney they never knew existed.

The wife an I have found a good way around this. What we will do is plan what we call food only trips once maybe twice. We plan them more than 180 days out and the entire trip is organized around nothing more than eating at the places we rarely get into.

I agree that Disney is getting more popular, and combining that with the DDP is keeping the restaurants full. While from a business perspective I completely get the DDP, but Disney does have the ability to affect reservations no matter how they want. I really liked when they altered the booking window to just 90 days, because it didn't force you to think about these things 6 months out. Planning is one of the aspects of the proposed NextGen stuff that does scare me a little bit, but I will reserve judgement on that until I see if and how that all comes about.
 

Master Yoda

Pro Star Wars geek.
Premium Member
I agree that Disney is getting more popular, and combining that with the DDP is keeping the restaurants full. While from a business perspective I completely get the DDP, but Disney does have the ability to affect reservations no matter how they want. I really liked when they altered the booking window to just 90 days, because it didn't force you to think about these things 6 months out. Planning is one of the aspects of the proposed NextGen stuff that does scare me a little bit, but I will reserve judgement on that until I see if and how that all comes about.
Ironically, one of the good things about the 180 day booking window is not everyone plans that far out. The morning rush on the phone lines is not as bad at day 180 vs when it was 90 day. Granted it does tend to block out that do not plan that far in advance but I do not see that as a bad thing. Those that take the time to plan should get benefit from it.
 

lebeau

Well-Known Member
I don't know, but he's told the story 77 times in this thread and instead of worrying about $10 he should start saving for the carpel tunnel treatments he is gonna need after this, LOL.

I've repeated myself when asked or when a point needed to be restated (usually for someone new entering the conversation). And even then, I apologized in advance for being repetitive.

Feel free to put me on ignore.

That said, yes, charging $10 for an infant who wouldn't have paid anyway is ridiculous and I would never have paid it. Lebeau, did you speak to anyone else? Did you talk to guest services? It's blatantly idiotic to be charged a "no show" fee for what would have been a free meal for the infant, and although you shouldn't have to "fight" it, that's exactly what you should have done.

Nope. I had no fight left in me. My family was tired, cold and defeated. We just wanted to go home. And I'd spent about 15-20 minutes on the phone with someone who seemed to want to help, but told me he could not.

In retrospect, I should have hung up and called back or followed up when I had rested. But it didn't occur to me. A lot of tourists will react the same way.

The point is, it shouldn't have happened in the first place. And now, it's going to happen to more people more often. That, in my book, is a bad thing.

If you were here saying, "I went to guest services, I spoke to management, and they said yup, I had to pay," I'd be right there with you. Heck, if guest services didn't fix it, I would have simply called my credit card company and disputed the charge.

You just said I shouldn't have had to fight it. Why are you putting so much onus on me? The customer who played by the rules.

I get a Disney fan defending Disney. I defend Disney all the time. I defended the FLE just as vocally as I have condemned this policy. But do you seriously think the guest should be so severely burdened going forward?

Your ONE bad experience, which you have made well, WELL known, is not an indicator of how things will work with this NEW system.

Why not? seems like a good indicator to me.

Since the number of restaurants requiring this is expanding so, and Disney is well-known for giving it's employees (oh, I forget the exact wording) "empowering" them to assist with things like this, we have no idea what policies and exceptions will be in place. As someone who has answered phones similarly before, I can tell you that the people on the phone immediately get a gut reaction when someone is genuinely cancelling because of unforeseen circumstances and when they are just trying to get out of something.

That may be true. Runs contrary to my one personal experience and a number of accounts I have read.

As I have said before (yes, repeating myself again) I have no doubt Disney will get it right 90% of the time. But if they get it wrong 10% of the time, that's too much. And with this policy expanding, that 10% could affect a lot of guests.

Also, I expect Disney's going to crack down on exceptions. Otherwise, this new policy is completely toothless. All that serves to do is create additional hurdles for people who are playing by the rules and have a run of bad luck.


While what happened to you is patently ridiculous, the fact you paid it is your own decision and you did nothing to bring this ridiculous thing to the attention of people who could have helped you. I'm sorry to be that harsh but this has become the "Lebeau is screaming mad about $10 and didn't stand up for himself" thread, when actually for most this is a really good change.

I feel I've made some pretty reasonable arguments which you have chosen to ignore. But if that's how you choose to see it...

I've asked before. How is this a good thing? So far, no one has really explained that to me.

I keep hearing it will open up availability. But no one has explained how that will happen outside of the 24-hour window beyond it being a mild deterent. One easily worked around by people who have demonstrated a willingness to do so.

I keep hearing it will create additional opportunities for walk-ups despite evidence to the contrary.

No one is providing any support for arguments that this will benefit the customer. Instead, they just keep trying to shout down those of us who are making arguments against the policy.

It adds some inconvenience to the front end, but if people just go to the dang ressies they make, it should work most of the time. And no more "Disney Moms" booking four ressies at one restaurant at one time. That alone should alleviate some of the issues.

Yes, it should work most of the time. Life isn't as simple as "show up to your ressies". Sometimes things happen. This plan allows too little flexibility.

Again, please explain how this prevents "double booking". At best, it's one more easily overcome hurdle.

This is a good thing, IMO, and you don't have to agree - but it's not all about you and your one bad experience that you just accepted and didn't do anything to rectify.

It's not about me and my experience at all. That's in the past. I only bring it up as an example. Everyone seems to think that they are going to get a free pass if things go wrong. Well, that's not true. Maybe you will. Odds are you will. But some people will be greatly inconvenienced in order to get that pass. And it will be at a time when things are already going wrong.

And for what? I've yet to see a simgle convincing argument that suggests this will deter the majority of double booking.
 

lebeau

Well-Known Member
Wait...you mean, actually contact the company involved which would have taken five minutes as opposed to screaming about it, and still being admittedly angry a year and a half later and spending hours whining about it on a message board?

Stop with your crazy logic talk! I banish you!

I think you've whined more about my story than I have... :rolleyes:
 

NewfieFan

Well-Known Member
Ironically, one of the good things about the 180 day booking window is not everyone plans that far out. The morning rush on the phone lines is not as bad at day 180 vs when it was 90 day. Granted it does tend to block out that do not plan that far in advance but I do not see that as a bad thing. Those that take the time to plan should get benefit from it.

Funny, I was just going to put out the same thought. The 90 day mark gives everyone a level playing field, so to speak (most people have some sort of plan in place by the 90 day mark) but is this a good thing!?! Like you said, the OCD ones amoung us get to book at the 180 day mark, with the rest of the guests following along at the 5 month mark, 4 month mark, etc. It kind of spreads out the bookings and those who do plan far in advance are rewarded (in a way).
 

lebeau

Well-Known Member
What about old people?

What about disabled people?

What about incontinent people?

Or people who's names begin with the letter Z, or those that simply don't want to make a ressie at all?

I know, I know..."I'm a parent, that makes me special, Disney is all about toddlers, yadda yadda". But if we are really honest, everyone could feel that an exception should be made for them, or that they shouldn't have restrictions imposed.

As a parent, you make sacrifices. Just like any other guest, then you'll have to chalk up the $10/head if you don't make your reservation.

You raise an excellent point. This policy will inconvenience a lot of guests. You're right. It's a bad policy for just about everyone.

Glad you're catching on.
 

lebeau

Well-Known Member
I have a feeling that Disney will be making more accommodations than not when it comes to this policy. My guess is that even if you call with some sort of reason within 24 hours they will probably give you the money back. I think the idea here is to really just stop no-shows, but they have to come up with some sort of policy that sounds legitimate.

If that's the case, why not charge the fees for no shows. No one would object to that.

A two hour window seems fair enough.

24 hours is absurd.

And even if they plan to grant exceptions, why set up a policy you know you won't uphold? Why make your guests jump through those extra hoops? That's bad customer service.
 

Pioneer Hall

Well-Known Member
Ironically, one of the good things about the 180 day booking window is not everyone plans that far out. The morning rush on the phone lines is not as bad at day 180 vs when it was 90 day. Granted it does tend to block out that do not plan that far in advance but I do not see that as a bad thing. Those that take the time to plan should get benefit from it.

I thankfully get to avoid rushes now, because I don't really worry about eating at any of the restaurants that require it. Also, like I said, my trips are never pegged that far in advance. I also understand the nature of the beast now, and know that I might not be getting into Ohana if I don't book it light years in advance. But, by that logic, why not just open dining reservations when they release package prices for the year? If someone is willing to book there Dec 2013 vacation in June (or Aug) 2012 then why not give them the benefit of making ADR's that far out. I also don't have to book client ADR's anymore so the window doesn't affect me as much ;)
 

lebeau

Well-Known Member
Come on lay off lebeau! He's pi$$ed about $10, so what!?! I don't think he's insulted anyone here, just complained about his own happenings.

I can understand the dude... when you feel a company or business has burned you it really rubs you the wrong way (especially if it's a business you like and or support with your wallet). And this is the case whether it's $10 or $1000!!! I had an incident at HMV (the music store) happen to me years ago and I could still go on a rant about it to this day (and yes, I gave up shopping there b/c of it). My point is I'm sure we've all had a business do somthing to us that has burned us!

Thanks for the back-up.

AEfx is (intentionally I suspect) missing the point. It's not about the $40 fee or the $10 bucks they charged for the baby. It was the principle of the matter.

And it clearly hasn't stopped me from supporting Disney. They get it right more often than not. I only brought up my experience because it pertained to the matter we were discussing.

If anyone is unclear on the details, let me know and I will tell my sad tale of woe once again. For AEfx's benefit of course.
 

lebeau

Well-Known Member
I agree that Disney is getting more popular, and combining that with the DDP is keeping the restaurants full. While from a business perspective I completely get the DDP, but Disney does have the ability to affect reservations no matter how they want. I really liked when they altered the booking window to just 90 days, because it didn't force you to think about these things 6 months out. Planning is one of the aspects of the proposed NextGen stuff that does scare me a little bit, but I will reserve judgement on that until I see if and how that all comes about.

Totally agree here.

I was sad to see the 90-window abandoned. But I get why they did it. Disney wants you committed to a table service meal as early as possible.
 

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