Cedar Point

[LoisMustDie]

Well, he's certainly acting like it.

Thank you so much for your concern--but it is not for you to know what or how I feel, let alone to judge me.

Seriously, why don't we back off... I realize that we tend to argue about really stupid stuff, but this being a WDW fan site, let's at LEAST stick to arguing about that!

A thousand pardons for discussing about Cedar Point in a thread entitled CEDAR POINT. If you only want to discuss the Disney parks, then why are you reading this thread?

Starting off replies with "Ummmm... (condescending) note to genius (flat out rude)" is completely unnecessary.

Just take it down a notch, okay? :wave:

Is this a civilized forum? I didn't realize that the Webmaster has given anyone permission to act as "thread censor," as you are so obviously doing. My reply might be unnecessary from your point of view, but then again I'm not you, and my reply was not intended for you. No, butting into an ongoing conversation to point out your opinion on my behavior IS what is unnecessary here. This back-stabbing of new members is hardly conducive to a productive forum.

The problem is, most of his facts are incorrect. Wild Thing, Mamba, and Steel Force were all made by Morgan, not Arrow which created Magnum. Also, Cedar Point used the same technology as Knott's Berry Farm did on Xcelerator because they are both owned by Cedar Fair so its nothing like Six Flags. Finally Knott's Berry farm was the first park to use a hydraulic catapault launch, which is totally different from the LSM System used on RnRc. The LSM system was actually created first for use on Superman Ultimate Escape at Magic Mountain.

And YOUR problem is that you missed the entirety of my points. Let's go through them:

1. When referring to Morgan's rides, I clearly made the distinction that they were made by the same PEOPLE, NOT the same COMPANY. This was to avoid this exact situation, but I guess I overestimated. Most of the head designers for Morgan were ON THE MAGNUM DESIGN TEAM when they worked for Arrow Dynamics, before they formed the splinter group Morgan. Having the word "coaster" in your name, I thought you would have made that observation.
2. When referring to TTD, dandaman's point was not that Cedar Fair had first used the catapult launch, but that TTD had the first catapult launch. Here is the exact quote:

...and Top Thrill Dragster had the first catapult launching system.

Which, as you have pointed out, was entirely incorrect. Again, I reiterate: TTD had copied the catapult launch just as KK does, the difference being that CP thinks that TTD is innovative by being "the first stratacoaster!" Wow, CP being more desperate than Six Flags...who'da thunk it?
3. Ok, so if RNRC does not have a catapult launch, then can you kindly explain the large, catapult-like object that moves under the train right before the launch, along with the train retracting a few feet? I have already asked this question, but once again you seemed to have missed it.
Perhaps next time you should actually read my points before you accuse my facts of being "incorrect."

It's just that Cedar Fair is more willing to take the risk on a new technology with its parks.

Not really. What evidence do you have of this?

Exactly what I said... however, I didn't even realize what kind of feedback this would create...
Now, like I said before... ANYWAYS...

I find it very disappointing that you have such a "take it or leave it" attitude when it comes to your beloved park that you would ignore my on-target points and attempt to move on. I would say that I expect better, but then again I have continually overestimated CP fans.

(And BTW... if you don't like the thread... DO NOT POST.)

I assume this is intended for me, and if it is not then I apologize up front. But if you read my first post, I was just giving my honest opinion of my status as a CP ticket-holder and paying customer, along with a hearty recomendation for CP's newest ride, the only caveat being that it would take a long time to load. Then it was you who made an incorrect assessment about the ride's potential wait time, as well as hitting my nerve with the "classic CP credo." I'm just trying to have a discussion here. I find it disheartening that because I disagree with you, I'm automatically labeled as someone who does not like the thread. I didn't realize this thread was just a retread of the CP vacation brochure. Excuse me for thinking that this was a civilized discussion forum.

 

[coasterphil]

It can hardly be called copying when Knott's and Cedar Point are both owned by the same parent company Cedar Fair. They wanted to try the technology on a smaller scale at another park before bringing it to Cedar Point, because they knew that is where they would get the biggest attendence boost.


Also straight from rcdb.com here is the definition for a LSM launch: LSM (Linear Synchronous Motor) is a form of electro-magnetic propulsion. They replace a traditional lift hill and do not contain any moving parts. Typically LSM systems launch the roller coaster from the station extremely quickly.
That system is nothing like that of TTD's. TTD is attached to a cable with hydraulic flywheel to propel it. No where does it use electromagnets and is a totally different type of technology.

I'll finish by saying that Cedar Point is without a doubt the best amusement park in the world. You can definitely argue that it doesn't come close to a theme park like Disney or Universal but thats not what it is for. The park is for people that want to ride the biggest and most thrilling rides in the world. If you are looking for tons of theming and atmosphere then don't bother, go back to Orlando or Anaheim because this isn't the park for you.

 

[LoisMustDie]

Coasterphil, once again you're missing the entirety of my points. I don't know if it is my fault that you are getting so confused, but I will answer these as concisely as I can:

It can hardly be called copying when Knott's and Cedar Point are both owned by the same parent company Cedar Fair. They wanted to try the technology on a smaller scale at another park before bringing it to Cedar Point, because they knew that is where they would get the biggest attendence boost.

Is there an argument here? They are two different rides. One came after the other. They have the same catapult launch system. Same company or not, one ride COPIED THE TECHNOLOGY. Just as Soarin at Epcot copied the DCA Soarin technology. No difference. I don't know how this can be debated.

Also straight from rcdb.com here is the definition for a LSM launch: LSM (Linear Synchronous Motor) is a form of electro-magnetic propulsion. They replace a traditional lift hill and do not contain any moving parts. Typically LSM systems launch the roller coaster from the station extremely quickly. That system is nothing like that of TTD's. TTD is attached to a cable with hydraulic flywheel to propel it. No where does it use electromagnets and is a totally different type of technology.

That sounds very nice, thank you. But once again, please read my question before providing an answer. I will ask it for the THIRD time: IF RNRC does not have a catapult launch, then how to you explain the large, catapult-like thing that attaches itself under the train, as well as the train retracting before the launch (which, from my recollection, is not seen on other LSM coasters)?

I'll finish by saying that Cedar Point is without a doubt the best amusement park in the world. You can definitely argue that it doesn't come close to a theme park like Disney or Universal but thats not what it is for. The park is for people that want to ride the biggest and most thrilling rides in the world. If you are looking for tons of theming and atmosphere then don't bother, go back to Orlando or Anaheim because this isn't the park for you.

Thank you for the manifesto, but it was unnecessary. I know that CP is leagues below Disney and co. I know it's only supposed to be an amusement park. And I know it's one of the best in the world. (Though, in my opinion, it comes in second to PKI, but then again that's just me, just as CP at #1 is your opinion). I don't know how you deduced that I made assumptions comapring theming and atmosphere, because it was certainly NOT in any of my responses. My point is that someone forgot to tell CEDAR POINT that it is just an amusement park. Example: CP continuously spouts how its employees are the best anywhere (laughably untrue). Or how they think that their coasters being open 96% of the year (or something like that) is something to be proud of...of course somebody must have forgot to tell them that THEY'RE CLOSED SIX MONTHS OF THE YEAR, so those rides better damn well be open, otherwise those six months of maintenance time (!) is not enough. Or when I wore an IOA Dueling Dragons t-shirt to the park and I got nothing but "This park (CP) is better." Also laughably untrue, as you were also quick to point out. This is the attitude that permeates the 300 acres in Sandusky, and I for one am sick of it.

P.S. I find it curious that you never answered my question regarding Cedar Fair's lack of innovations. An honest oversight, I'm sure.

 

[ogryn]

Rock 'n' Rollercoaster uses a shuttle under the track that the cars latch on to. The shuttle is accelerated using Linear Synchronous Motors

Intamin Accelerator coasters are launched by a cable and hydrolics (I assume this uses a shuttle as well, from videos I've seen of RITA)

Superman: The Escape uses LIM's or LSM's to directly accelerate and decelerate the cars, as does California Screamin'.


What difference does it make if one park buys a particular type of coaster, then another park buys the same type? After all, they do buy them in from external companies.

Being the first Stratacoaster may not make CP a big innovator, but it is hugely marketable to the general public. My local park holds the record for most inversions on a coaster, which was a huge selling point for the park and put it on the map, yet the coaster was only a clone of one in Brazil but with an extra barrel-roll on it.

 

[MouseMadness]

This back-stabbing of new members is hardly conducive to a productive forum

Hardly back stabbing when I said it right to you, but go ahead and say as you wish. It was not my intention to tell you what to say, but rather to tell you how incredibly rude you were being. By all means, continue, if this is considered a good way to converse. :wave:

 

[darthdarrel]

God! I can't believe this discussion! LOL!
Bickering about the most elusive things!
I love Cedar point! Is it the best amusement park ever? I don't know, but I do know that it has been named the best by most of the Amusement park enthusiast magazines. Is it the best Theme park? heck no, Cedar point isn't even considered a theme park. I love Disney world and always will! If I had to pick one over the other there is no second guessing, it is Disney by FAR!
As Rob Said Cedar Point Rocks, but compared to Disney world, heck there is no comparison! :lol: Disney wins hands down! I have been to Paramounts Kings Island a total of 4 times and I really don't care to go there again. The only ride even worth going on was The beast, the other rides are so subpar to Cedar Point it's pathetic atleast that is my opinion, not to diss anyone who loves Kings Island.

By the way It might be to soon to get a cedar point meet going for may, I don't know what does everyone else think?

 

[dandaman]

^Probably... I'm going in 5 days. :lol:

 

[JBSLJames]

Innovation you say, Innovation. . .

Kings Island was the first park of it's kind in Mason/Lebanon area of Ohio.

The Screamon Deamon was the first Backwards Looping Coaster.

The Bat was one of in not the first suspended coaster

The Clown Band was the best entertainment for your hard earned dollar

If I recall, the Brady Bunch did not go to Cedar Point, they went to King's Island

The Beast was the "Biggest, Baddest, Longest Fastest" wooden coaster in the world and is still the best ride I have ever ridden

The Eiffel Tower was the first of it's kind (the French are a bunch of copy cats)

Son of Beast is the first looping wooden coaster

Rivertown Potato Works was the first thick cut fry to use a new peanut oil blend

The Racer is often credited for reviving the wooden coaster business

I may be wrong on the Eiffel Tower thing

Sandy Gooble was the first "Litter-Getter" to "get" over 12 pounds over litter in a single shift

Scooby's Ghoster Coaster was the first suspended ride for kids

Ted Mushinick was the first funnel cake vendor to sell over 369 funnel cakes in a single day earning him the nickname "Mushycakes"

So there

 

[dandaman]

^Nice post.

 

[dandaman]

Looks like 60 degrees and raining for Saturday and Sunday.

 

[darthdarrel]

Innovation you say, Innovation. . .

Kings Island was the first park of it's kind in Mason/Lebanon area of Ohio.

The Screamon Deamon was the first Backwards Looping Coaster.

The Bat was one of in not the first suspended coaster

The Clown Band was the best entertainment for your hard earned dollar

If I recall, the Brady Bunch did not go to Cedar Point, they went to King's Island

The Beast was the "Biggest, Baddest, Longest Fastest" wooden coaster in the world and is still the best ride I have ever ridden

The Eiffel Tower was the first of it's kind (the French are a bunch of copy cats)

Son of Beast is the first looping wooden coaster

Rivertown Potato Works was the first thick cut fry to use a new peanut oil blend

The Racer is often credited for reviving the wooden coaster business

I may be wrong on the Eiffel Tower thing

Sandy Gooble was the first "Litter-Getter" to "get" over 12 pounds over litter in a single shift

Scooby's Ghoster Coaster was the first suspended ride for kids

Ted Mushinick was the first funnel cake vendor to sell over 369 funnel cakes in a single day earning him the nickname "Mushycakes"

So there

Sorry , still don't like Kings Island. :lol: :wave:
Specially since it takes 6 hours to get there, so it is not worth it like I have said I have been the 4 times in the past 10 years, just not as fun as cedar point. but I am glad you are happy with it.

 

[dandaman]

Leaving tomorrow. Anyone want a trip report on Monday? :lol:

 

[dandaman]

2 highlights of the trip: I rode Top Thrill Dragster for the first time, and a seagull kind of did his business on my friend... :lol: