Cashless Disney and the Mark of the Magic Band

[nickys]

Yes. But it's getting more and more inconvenient to use cash today. I live in Florida. I could wait 10 minutes at the Turnpike booth to pay my $7 toll. Or I could just tag a credit card to a Sunpass sticker and fly right through.

Or I could spend 20 minutes in line for QS at Disney. But it is more convenient if I mobile order.

Toll Booth operator is not a growing field. Similar to "mail carrier who can ride a horse and travel long distances".

Changes are generational. We are around now, and nobody likes "change" - So we resist. But the kids today (the ones who will have the expendable income in the next 10- 20 years) this is how they operate. Try "calling" a twenty year old. Their first response will be "Why are you calling?...just text me." I didn't know what a "text" was 20 years ago - I had just given up my beeper for a fold-able cellular phone.

I used to take my fold-able cellular phone to Burdines to buy a Polo shirt (in cash of course). If somebody would have told me that in 20 years, I could just order that shirt online and it would be delivered right to me. I naturally would have asked "Well, how do I pay for that?" The response would have been "we'll have a credit card on file".....to which my response would have been... "Yeah....right!"

Never had a problem at the toll booths. Slow down, choose a lane, drive through, chuck money into nets, drive off, rejoin highway.

Or stop at a toll booth. Most we’ve ever waited is for two cars to pay. The bigger issue is that the sat nav thinks we’re turning off the highway and frantically tries to reprogramme the route as we’re rejoining the highway!

Disney have a huge mountain to climb still in monitoring international guests. Whatever rules stop them shipping magic bands (whether import regs at our end, or export regs in the US) causes issues. Most people buying the special tickets will do so through a 3rd party seller. I have no idea how or if Disney find out total numbers sold from the sellers, but unless they’re linked to MDE they have no way to track them until people show up at the gates.

Then their gift cards that they sell in the U.K., for example, can only be used in the U.K. So therefore visitors can’t even be encouraged to use gift cards in lieu of cash.

Plus, as you say, you can’t pre-load cash onto magic bands or the RFID tickets. And even if they did allow that, the casual visitor who is just picking random days to come and don’t know how many further days they will return, will be unwilling to load cash onto them anyway. That applies as much to US visitors as international ones.

A surprising number of international visitors still use traditional bank credit cards, which have minimum foreign transaction fees attached. So they won’t want to use them for small amounts.

Ultimately, since the offsite visitors outnumber onsite visitors, any move to cashless is fraught with problems.

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

Ultimately, since the offsite visitors outnumber onsite visitors, any move to cashless is fraught with problems.

It is. I don't think it happens next Tuesday. But I think it happens at some point...in the not so distant future. I think the first objective will be to put the pre-load ability onto MDE for the MBs (not really a stretch - considering the Mobile Ordering process). Once we get there.....then it's just time. Whether it is a mandatory action or voluntary one...is debatable. However, it will be greatly encouraged.

 

[Chef Mickey]

Yes. But it's getting more and more inconvenient to use cash today. I live in Florida. I could wait 10 minutes at the Turnpike booth to pay my $7 toll. Or I could just tag a credit card to a Sunpass sticker and fly right through.

Or I could spend 20 minutes in line for QS at Disney. But it is more convenient if I mobile order.

Toll Booth operator is not a growing field. Similar to "mail carrier who can ride a horse and travel long distances".

Changes are generational. We are around now, and nobody likes "change" - So we resist. But the kids today (the ones who will have the expendable income in the next 10- 20 years) this is how they operate. Try "calling" a twenty year old. Their first response will be "Why are you calling?...just text me." I didn't know what a "text" was 20 years ago - I had just given up my beeper for a fold-able cellular phone.

I used to take my fold-able cellular phone to Burdines to buy a Polo shirt (in cash of course). If somebody would have told me that in 20 years, I could just order that shirt online and it would be delivered right to me. I naturally would have asked "Well, how do I pay for that?" The response would have been "we'll have a credit card on file".....to which my response would have been... "Yeah....right!"

There are some situations cashless makes sense. At Disney, where there are thousands of payment touch points, they'll be better served to give you options.

I use Apple Pay at WDW wherever possible.

 

[nickys]

It is. I don't think it happens next Tuesday. But I think it happens at some point...in the not so distant future. I think the first objective will be to put the pre-load ability onto MDE for the MBs (not really a stretch - considering the Mobile Ordering process). Once we get there.....then it's just time. Whether it is a mandatory action or voluntary one...is debatable. However, it will be greatly encouraged.

So if you were visiting, say, Kennedy Space Center for the day. You, partner and two kids. How much money do you load onto your ticket?

Of course, there’s a line of people behind you, getting impatient.... hurry up!

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

There are some situations cashless makes sense. At Disney, where there are thousands of payment touch points, they'll be better served to give you options.

For us- options are good. Don't get me wrong. I like the ability to whip out a Ben to pay for something. But for the Mills and Z'ers - not so much. Disney needs to focus on it's guests (including us) for a bit. So sure, being able to break out a couple of Abe's, albeit novel, will be accepted. But in very short order, the Mills and Z's (who probably couldn't name the guy on the $50 bill...much less recognize that he was both a general and a President) will not be anywhere near as reliant on cash as we are. If Disney wasn't planning for that (and figuring out how to profit on it)....I'd be disappointed.

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

So if you were visiting, say, Kennedy Space Center for the day. You, partner and two kids. How much money do you load onto your ticket?

Of course, there’s a line of people behind you, getting impatient.... hurry up!

Does Disney own KSC? I'm not saying Canaveral (or Orlando or Florida in general) would disavow cash. I was talking about Disney. Now, sure, knowing Iger, he could have the ego to start a rocket program (like Musk).....in which case, yes, it would be purchased via MB . /sarc

 

[nickys]

It is. I don't think it happens next Tuesday. But I think it happens at some point...in the not so distant future. I think the first objective will be to put the pre-load ability onto MDE for the MBs (not really a stretch - considering the Mobile Ordering process). Once we get there.....then it's just time. Whether it is a mandatory action or voluntary one...is debatable. However, it will be greatly encouraged.

I actually agree with you. For onsite guests or regular visitors. Load money on each month for 6 months before your visit, and your trip is all but paid for. I’d do it, absolutely.

But there is a reason the trial at AKL has not been a 100% all in. They still accept cash everywhere at the resort, during a cashless trial!!! I remember the discussion on here, some saw no problem at all with the idea, totally convinced they would make visitors go to one CM at the front desk and load money onto a gift card instead of accepting cash.

Loading a band or RFID card is just not going to happen for many offsite visitors, other than the likes of AP holders. Even then, why would you do that when you can use contactless or Apple Pay? Would you just leave the balance on the band for the next visit? Queue at GS for a refund of unused cash? The best they will get to is card-only but then they would lose the multiple small purchases, and annoy the heck out of many visitors, who would quite probably decide not to bother going back and head for Universal.

 

[nickys]

Does Disney own KSC? I'm not saying Canaveral (or Orlando or Florida in general) would disavow cash. I was talking about Disney. Now, sure, knowing Iger, he could have the ego to start a rocket program (like Musk).....in which case, yes, it would be purchased via MB . /sarc

My point is that you visit WDW. Quite often??? So you are not the average visitor, by any stretch. I have no idea, maybe you’re a once every 15 years but still post here. A lot of WDW guests are once in a lifetime, or once every 5 years. If they have no idea as to what things cost, how do they decide how much to load onto their card when they arrive?

I was putting you in an unfamiliar place and asking you the same question!

 

[eliza61nyc]

Valid points. But if they are staying on property that would be remedied by receiving the MB at the front desk of the resort at check in.

Everyone...well mostly every - international visitor is staying at a hotel, near Disney. Shipping the MB to the hotel for pickup at check in, or alternately - going to Guest Relations would also be an option. There is a way to do it.

I understand the mindset about using cash. But cruise lines do this today. Disney would be accepting cash or credit. You would just need to load it on to your MDE account....and then use your MB for the transaction at the Parks and Resort.

I'm neither for or against this. Honestly I'd lean against - slightly - due to privacy concerns. But I think Disney as a business would benefit by it.

Cruise lines are a bit different. You truly are a captive audience on most cruise lines once you pull out of the port. also Disney is a lot harder to pin down a cost before hand. there are so many upsells and things not anticipated, how much do you load up on the card?

A little OT: I live in Philadelphia and ironically the trend is moving away from cards especially at the small restaurants. They will have atm inside the restaurant or bar but they are cash only establishments. My cleaners is also cash only. My hair salon accepts cards but gives you a 15% discount if you pay by cash. cards are extremely expensive for the small business.

but back on topic. for the forseeable future I think the mouse world will accept good ole fashion cash, I try not to prognosticate past 5 years

 

[RScottyL]

This is already happening, they always know where you are, where have been and where you are going

I agree!

Using the magic band, they can essentially track what rides you are on, when you go to your hotel room, when/what you eat/drink as well as any purchases you make.

I don't think of this as a negative, but a positive. If they need to adjust park hours or fast passes because of that they can.

Maybe they have too many people in one of the 4 parks at a given time. They could have specials for lunch or dinner at your hotel or somewhere to keep crowds down or something!

Who knows, but I think it helps everyone to know all of this information!

 

[Hugh Jazz]

I agree!

Using the magic band, they can essentially track what rides you are on, when you go to your hotel room, when/what you eat/drink as well as any purchases you make.

I don't think of this as a negative, but a positive. If they need to adjust park hours or fast passes because of that they can.

Maybe they have too many people in one of the 4 parks at a given time. They could have specials for lunch or dinner at your hotel or somewhere to keep crowds down or something!

Who knows, but I think it helps everyone to know all of this information!

They count people everywhere all the time. My company is participating in a proof of concept at 2 parks to deploy automatic people movement monitoring. This is anonymous data not tied to magic band. The magic band can only give them a general location. Not say how people move in lines. This is tracking down to the mm.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Maybe, but, I doubt that I will ever see it. People need to see the value, not just believe it is contained in a chip in a magic band or a card. We use it now because we have accepted a simpler way to access our hard earned cash, not as a replacement for that cash. If you prepaid to a specialized band, say like Disney and you didn't spend it all... there would have to be a way to access it to be used elsewhere. How would that work? How long would it take for a place like Disney to free up your money's so you could use it some other place? Ever tried to get a cable company to return your money if you change suppliers. You get it, but, you could starve to death waiting. It may someday be the case, because we get more and more like puppets everyday, but, I think it will be a while before everyone would change over.

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

I think it will be a while before everyone would change over.

Maybe. But it's taken what?.....11 years for many of us to load our financial details into a mobile phone.....just sayin'. A lot of people are still staring at trees. They still don't realize they're in a forest. And those that do realize, have no idea as to the vastness of the forest.

 

[thomas998]

So. Got to talking with a fellow Disney-ite and topics ranged all over the place (like they usually do when you talk Disney...the Guinness' didn't hurt either)

The cashless topic came up and it does make a lot of sense. Can anyone see a "World" where cash and credit are no longer accepted, in lieu of "loading" up your magic band with a credit/debit card (thus ALL payments would be made via MB).

Before you arbitrarily dismiss this.....it would solve a lot of issues and it would give Disney a lot more information into guest spending and behavior.

Think of a world where everyone visiting Disney has an MDE account. The data relative to that alone, along with the ability to track guest behavior (tourist and local alike), spending habits, etc., would be mind boggling.

They'd know John Q Public had 36 drinks last Saturday at F&W over a three hour period ... and only ate an egg roll. They could in essence look at capping alcohol sales at x per y (x being amount - y being time). Sure there are ways to game that, but it'd be fine tuned over time and morph into some top secret algo. (Yeah, some will say Disney would never give up the opportunity to make money by capping alcohol, but the calculus also need include liability and guest experience - They'll let you get "Happy" but won't let you get "Goofy")

Get on a bus MB, get on a boat MB, get on a Gondola MB. Today, how do they gauge utilization? I've yet to see a bus driver do a head count. Maybe they do and are just sneaky that way. But the bus driver doesn't know "who" is getting on their bus. Think of the ability to gauge utilization (resort guest and non-resort guest) vs time window. Better planning = cost saving for Disney.

RFID is watching...it's always watching. If you're wearing a MB they know when you got there, know when you left, know where you went. But in a lot of cases they don't know what you did. They can tell you were in the Emporium last Wednesday at 2:45pm - but they don't know if you made a purchase (unless you voluntarily used a MB - a lot of locals and guest still use CC's, GC's, and cash). Forcing you to use the MB for purchase is a goldmine of data and information.

It would also aid in identifying ways being used to try to game the system. They'd quickly be able to identify that an inordinate amount of locals were catching the bus from DS to the Contemporary or Beach Club and stayed there for 9 hours before they caught the bus back to Disney Springs.

The algo's created by this info would be downright scary.

Can't see it happening. They've done that type of a thing at local events in my town where you can't use cash to buy food, drinks or souvenirs instead you have to purchase tickets from a ticket booth and then use the tickets to buy things like they were money (was designed because vendors had to pay a percent of their gross sales to the organizer and the organizers didn't trust the vendors to be honest)... Friends of my had relatives that were vendors in some of the events and they saw a marked drop in sales when the ticket system went into effect because people don't like the hassle of having to get tickets to use as money. Now that's not exactly like a magic band, but it would have the same effect for some people because not everyone would be willing to link a credit card to the magic band nor do all people have credit card... Those people would need to put some actual money on the magic band and while they might do that when they got there, the reality is some of them would run out of credits on their magic band and then forgo buying stuff because they wouldn't want to have to find their way back to the central location to load up more credit on the magic band. End result is Disney would lose sales.... Of course with some people Disney might get more sales because some people tend to spend more when they don't actually use cash to make a purchase... I just don't think it will happen anytime soon.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Maybe. But it's taken what?.....11 years for many of us to load our financial details into a mobile phone.....just sayin'. A lot of people are still staring at trees. They still don't realize they're in a forest. And those that do realize, have no idea as to the vastness of the forest.

Well, I am old enough to know that anything is possible. But, human nature always wants to basically protect itself. They are more open now on social media, but, what they share isn't usually all that interesting or significant in a harmful way. We are still closed up and the only reason why we share that stuff is because most of the people we are sharing with, don't have a clue who we are. Think of the amount of money spent on security add on's to protect what we do share.

However, like I said, there really is no way to predict what people will do from one minute to the next. I am usually pretty willing to alter my behavior if I think that technology is in line to make my life easier. I have friends that still reconcile their check books by hand without the help of a computer program. Heck, they even still use checks. I write one every month for a charge that is connected with a charge for me to give them access to my account. Yea, like I'm going to pay someone to just draw stuff out of my bank without my individual permission. They want to charge me extra for that ability. They are the only ones that benefit from it. So... sorry, I guess you're going to have to accept a check.

 

[Lensman]

They could do what others have done to incentivize stored value cards or loyalty cards by offering a bonus when you load the card up or a discount when making purchases.

And to eliminate the worry about orphaned value they could always refund you in cash on demand below a certain threshold. They would eat the cost of this in exchange for the data plus the idea that the psychology of the bands makes you spend more.

 

[DisneyGigi]

I am the only person that thought the Mark of the Magicband title sounded familiar??

 

[donaldtoo]

I am the only person that thought the Mark of the Magicband title sounded familiar??

No. I just chose to ignore that redonculous comparison...

 

[Smiley/OCD]

Cruise lines are a bit different. You truly are a captive audience on most cruise lines once you pull out of the port. also Disney is a lot harder to pin down a cost before hand. there are so many upsells and things not anticipated, how much do you load up on the card?

A little OT: I live in Philadelphia and ironically the trend is moving away from cards especially at the small restaurants. They will have atm inside the restaurant or bar but they are cash only establishments. My cleaners is also cash only. My hair salon accepts cards but gives you a 15% discount if you pay by cash. cards are extremely expensive for the small business.

but back on topic. for the forseeable future I think the mouse world will accept good ole fashion cash, I try not to prognosticate past 5 years

That's because if you are an all cash business, there is no paper trail in what you declare at the end of the month/year...you own a restaurant? There was bad rain/ snow/ heat and there were no customers...how's that going to be proven true or false? My brother and I just finished major repairs to my late father's house to sell...EVERY contractor we used saved us BIG $$$$ by paying in cash. Yeah, I had to run to the bank and cash a check, but for the 15K we spent, we saved close to 3K by paying cash.

 

[Smiley/OCD]

Yes. But it's getting more and more inconvenient to use cash today. I live in Florida. I could wait 10 minutes at the Turnpike booth to pay my $7 toll. Or I could just tag a credit card to a Sunpass sticker and fly right through.

Or I could spend 20 minutes in line for QS at Disney. But it is more convenient if I mobile order.

Toll Booth operator is not a growing field. Similar to "mail carrier who can ride a horse and travel long distances".

Changes are generational. We are around now, and nobody likes "change" - So we resist. But the kids today (the ones who will have the expendable income in the next 10- 20 years) this is how they operate. Try "calling" a twenty year old. Their first response will be "Why are you calling?...just text me." I didn't know what a "text" was 20 years ago - I had just given up my beeper for a fold-able cellular phone.

I used to take my fold-able cellular phone to Burdines to buy a Polo shirt (in cash of course). If somebody would have told me that in 20 years, I could just order that shirt online and it would be delivered right to me. I naturally would have asked "Well, how do I pay for that?" The response would have been "we'll have a credit card on file".....to which my response would have been... "Yeah....right!"

Like all of those "investors" that went all into the bitcoin craze and lost their shirts...now if I can only fit more Ben Franklins in my mattress...lol