News Cars-Themed Attractions at Magic Kingdom

[celluloid]

All of that is true about the other parks, yes. They've lost a lot of their unique things, and it's a shame. But what has MK lost during Iger's tenure that was totally unique to MK? And by totally unique, I don't mean something that once existed at multiple parks but MK's ended up being the last one standing. I mean something completely, totally unique to MK that originated there and didn't go somewhere else. Maybe there are things and I just can't remember.

Alien Encounter/Stitch's Great Escape and Great Muppet moments in history just to name the more obvious ones. Iger's fault of MK not being different and sloppier than DL does not come from what has been built as much as what has been neglected and or closed. Neither additions to the park have infrastructure built for those utilized.

But even still, the point I'm making is MK isn't very unique and hasn't been for a long time. Despite being the busiest, it is the castle park with by far the least in the way of it's own personal identity. By being a sloppier version of Disneyland, and then having Tokyo show how MK could've been better with the same core concept, I feel it's always been hurt by not having enough to differentiate itself.

I get what you are saying now, but much of Tokyo being superior to MK came from neglect of efforts in the last 20-25 years with a few sprinkled changes before that. I did not always find Tokyo Disneyland to have the best of the Kingdoms. The criteria you reference is difficult, because some things were actually at MK first that became so popular others had gotten them a decade later. This is again is more neglect than not. MK upon opening had differences with increasing separation goals, some the public did not want early on like Pirates, and others that became stagnant. For example, as a miniland Mickey's Birthday land was original at its opening in 1988, so popular that Toontown borrowed most elements of it after they wanted something with Roger Rabbit for Disneyland. Space Mountain and Country Bears were original to MK but so good DL got them too. And although it no longer stands and was a clone in elements and name. Mr. Toad was certainly better at WDW than DL. But that is gone now too. It is not always that DL has a better version stance.

And Magic Kingdom was difficult to fault for having many of the similarities at first, as that is what people wanted. It was a goal, and Walt still made sure to plan differences and improvements in some cases (immersion, castle size/scale, Hall of Presidents compared to Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln) while having unique land elements at opening to differentiate it(Liberty Square) to wanting to have a different ride than Pirates, but they gave the public what they wanted. All in the recent years after Walt's death. When MK opened to many decades, it was not seen as the sloppier DL. That is a much more recent feeling from fans that know better. Location aside, people wanted the scale and other improvements that MK had.

I totally get what you are saying when one hopes to have something unique in a line up, but we know that is not the reason this attraction themed to cars is wanted or being built, and nor will it remain that way if it is a success.

 

[Brer Panther]

I mean, were westerns and the frontier really that popular in the 2000s either? When I was younger, I never thought of Frontierland as outdated or thought it needed to be turned into, say, Disney Channel Land.

 

[Bocabear]

The real thing is, they have enough property between the 4 parks that this Carsland could be dumped anywhere... DHS is still light in attractions andf could use more...and they already have a Pixar presence... It would have made much more sense to put this whole Carsland thing within DHS where it actually fits... Leave the MK themed to classic Disney films...not muddy it up with Pixar and other studio offerings... DHS should be the park about Lucas Studios, Pixar, etc... While the Classic Walt Disney Studios are represented within the Magic Kingdom...
MK has always been about Nostalgia and Charm...not sure why there should be a big push to change that...

 

[BrianLo]

This isn’t what they’re doing. 1920s New Orleans and modern cars in a punny National Park can’t fit into even the most contorted understanding of “frontier.” The closest thing to a unifying theme now is “Mostly-Outside Land.”

Disney clearly doesn’t care about thematic coherence. Folks can be excited for the new rides despite this.

I agree, put me firmly in the camp of excited despite this.

Upon further reflection, perhaps the only tenuous thread is “American Wilderness”. I think that’s mostly happenstance and certainly doesn’t warrant a name change. But Haunted Mansion doesn’t really adhere.

I think it mostly broke with Tiana, though.

 

[Epcot82Guy]

I'm not sure why everyone is so worried. They did such a spectacular job delineating and separating the new EPCOT Neighborhoods, I don't know why we're concerned...

 

[ᗩLᘿᑕ ✨ ᗩζᗩᗰ]

I agree, put me firmly in the camp of excited despite this.

Upon further reflection, perhaps the only tenuous thread is “American Wilderness”. I think that’s mostly happenstance and certainly doesn’t warrant a name change. But Haunted Mansion doesn’t really adhere.

I think it mostly broke with Tiana, though.

This is 100% the direction it's going. Old West to American Wilderness. Haunted Mansion won't be an outlier, it's being lumped in with Villains*

 

[peter11435]

Haunted Mansion won't be an outlier, it's being lumped in with Villains*

No it’s not

 

[ᗩLᘿᑕ ✨ ᗩζᗩᗰ]

No it’s not

Correct. Technically not

 

[BrianLo]

The only thing I would add to the discussion of whether Frontierland's theme is sufficiently 'current' is that it not being particularly ubiquitous in the culture is part of the land's appeal.

While the notion of the frontier was certainly far more present in popular culture when Disneyland opened, one thing that was key to Disneyland's success was appealing to nostalgia. I doubt, for example, young kids in the 1950s and 1960s were particularly electrified by the idea of turn-of-the-century Marceline, Missouri, but that wasn't the point.

It’s interesting, what we are seeing is simply a shift of nostalgia, up 50-75 years. As cloying as it is, that means the nostalgia is now focusing inward. Walt has been dead nearly as long as Lincoln.

I really didn’t think Frontierland was a problem and easily could have survived another couple generations. But for better or worse the parks are now being made to appeal to Millennial nostalgia and millennial manufactured nostalgia. We only have to look at the age demographics of Yellowstone to see the writing on the wall. Cowboys and Indians are a very, very dead genre. I don’t think anyone is advocating for Mandalorian to be added to Frontierland.

Whatever you think about the new attractions, cars with big cartoon faces zooming around from a franchise that has only stuck around because it sells a lot of merchandise do not have charm.

I don’t have a horse in the race to justify cars. I wasn’t super for it when it was being first floated. But I would never, ever accuse Radiator Springs of lacking charm. It’s probably the or secondarily most charming part of DCA.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

I think it mostly broke with Tiana, though.

Sandwiching Tiana in between BTMRR and Pecos Bills didn't work (despite all the effort to make the square peg fit in a round hole) but it's better having the riverboat and Tom Sawyer Island close by to tie those things together.

Taking that away will just make it worse.

 

[DisneyNeighbor]

Has anyone made a SAVE THE RIVERS OF AMERICA shirt yet?

 

[mickEblu]

It’s interesting, what we are seeing is simply a shift of nostalgia, up 50-75 years. As cloying as it is, that means the nostalgia is now focusing inward. Walt has been dead nearly as long as Lincoln.

I really didn’t think Frontierland was a problem and easily could have survived another couple generations. But for better or worse the parks are now being made to appeal to Millennial nostalgia and millennial manufactured nostalgia. We only have to look at the age demographics of Yellowstone to see the writing on the wall. Cowboys and Indians are a very, very dead genre. I don’t think anyone is advocating for Mandalorian to be added to Frontierland.



I don’t have a horse in the race to justify cars. I wasn’t super for it when it was being first floated. But I would never, ever accuse Radiator Springs of lacking charm. It’s probably the or secondarily most charming part of DCA.

What we’re seeing is a dumbing down of the art form in the name of corporate greed. The ROA’s worth unfortunately isn’t very strong on a spreadsheet. Cars is just the IP they chose. It’s a product of the above not the reason for the change.

 

[Mike S]

Westerns have been dying since the 50s, if not earlier. The fact that the genre is dying is part of the genre! A huge number of the greatest westerns ever made - by Ford or Eastwood or any of the other greats - are about how the genre is dead.

But while the western is always dying, it’s never gone, never powerless. Let me tell you about a little show called The Mandalorian and why it resonated with such a big chunk of the population, young and old…

If westerns were truly dead Red Dead Redemption wouldn’t be the juggernaut that it is either.

 

[FiestaFunKid]

But for better or worse the parks are now being made to appeal to Millennial nostalgia and millennial manufactured nostalgia.

I dont dissagree, but is that where the money is? I'm sure (hope) Disney is smart enough to know the ~38-55 yo's who went with their parents in the 80s and 90s are now the ones with disposable income to have a nostalgic trip with their kids.

The most powerful nostalgia is the type for the parks and it's experiences - so when people bring their kids, reliving it makes them feel like a kid again themselves and perhaps evokes memories of their own parents who spent time with them there (and may be gone now). This so powerful that people are willing to overspend like crazy, borrow, etc. This is the market buying $1000+ hotel rooms and 10-15k week long trips - very few of the 20-30 yos who are starting to have nostaglia for cars movies are willing or able to spend at that level.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

I dont dissagree, but is that where the money is? I'm sure (hope) Disney is smart enough to know the ~38-55 yo's who went with their parents in the 80s and 90s are now the ones with disposable income to have a nostalgic trip with their kids.

The most powerful nostalgia is the type for the parks and it's experiences - so when people bring their kids, reliving it makes them feel like a kid again themselves and perhaps evokes memories of their own parents who spent time with them there (and may be gone now). This so powerful that people are willing to overspend like crazy, borrow, etc. This is the market buying $1000+ hotel rooms and 10-15k week long trips - very few of the 20-30 yos who are starting to have nostaglia for cars movies are willing or able to spend at that level.

Millennials are now in the 30-40 age range. By 2030, they'll be 35-45.

 

[FiestaFunKid]

Millennials are now in the 30-40 age range. By 2030, they'll be 35-45.

27-42 to be exact but the point remains. Only the oldest are in the key spending demo, who are far more driven by nostalgia for great park experiences than Cars films.

I think Radiator Springs is an excellent addition that will generate futute nostalgia but that was a new expansion into a parking lot of a poorly executed park.....far different than popping something on top of ROA with a shoehorned frontier theme.

 

[ᗩLᘿᑕ ✨ ᗩζᗩᗰ]

shoehorned frontier theme.

It isn't.

 

[BrianLo]

I dont dissagree, but is that where the money is? I'm sure (hope) Disney is smart enough to know the ~38-55 yo's who went with their parents in the 80s and 90s are now the ones with disposable income to have a nostalgic trip with their kids.

The most powerful nostalgia is the type for the parks and it's experiences - so when people bring their kids, reliving it makes them feel like a kid again themselves and perhaps evokes memories of their own parents who spent time with them there (and may be gone now). This so powerful that people are willing to overspend like crazy, borrow, etc. This is the market buying $1000+ hotel rooms and 10-15k week long trips - very few of the 20-30 yos who are starting to have nostaglia for cars movies are willing or able to spend at that level.

It’s a balancing act, for sure. But the money is with millennials. You can’t only do things for people privileged enough to be brought to WDW by their own families in the 90s. They’ve just transitioned to being more the dominant consumer. A large chunk of that demo is late to family or double income no kids, so there’s an appeal to Disney Adult.

I think there’s a cautious approach to replacements and WDW still remains more replacements heavy than I’d like to see. There’s nothing really wrong with ROA, which is why I doubt we’ll see it completely disappear from 2/3 other parks.

When I’m talking about this demo, I’m thinking more along the lines of Villains Land or Muppets RnRC or the Monsters Inc Coaster rather than Cars. Plucked right off an armchair imagineers dream board from ten years ago. WDW is coasting on the fumes of a strong investment cycle in 2016-2020.

 

[celluloid]

Indy, Cars, Monsters Inc and Villians ala Kingdom Keepers/Kingdom Hearts.

What is coming instead of timeless is very squarely 2008. And all about at once.

 

[DarkMetroid567]

If westerns were truly dead Red Dead Redemption wouldn’t be the juggernaut that it is either.

But you’ll notice that there hasn’t been a rush of western games or new copycat IPs. RDR and RDR2 are the very blunt exceptions to the norm, and I think you can convincingly make the argument that RDR2 was so popular because of the Rockstar brand.