MK Cars-Themed Attractions at Magic Kingdom

[Sorcerer Mickey]

well now were sorta back on track

Isn't Cars supposed to be trackless? C'mon guys.

 

[ChewbaccaYourMum]

Not exactly…. Many of the decisions are, in my opinion, over spending on ego projects.

This is not the cheapest solution - but it’s spending too much money in the wrong places.

On top of that - I question the tackless technology- I kinda hope they keep the existing design but just do radiator springs system.

I think you quoted me by accident lol. The post of mine you're replying to is about an AA on the Indiana Jones ride in Disneyland.

 

[Streetway Again]

Here’s something positive about this! There will be lots of new kinetic energy with this cars attraction, as the cars zoom about piston peak. It’ll add some new life to Frontierland!

 

[lazyboy97o]

Here’s something positive about this! There will be lots of new kinetic energy with this cars attraction, as the cars zoom about piston peak. It’ll add some new life to Frontierland!

That’s exactly what people keep identifying as a negative and people keep saying won’t be the case because they’re building up visual blocks.

 

[FerretAfros]

The story of Liberty Square and Frontierland can adapt to a new story.

Liberty Square’s story can change from a town with established river trade to one sat on the last settled edge of the colonies, surrounded by forested cliffs and waterfalls.

The Haunted Mansion is the grand estate on the edge of the wild, untouched woods. It’s been said that spirits roam the woods. Those who have dared to venture into the woods have perished, but their spirits live on…somewhere.

Instead of following a river into the unknown, guests will traverse a rocky mountain pass, key obstacles in America’s westward expansion, emphasizing the resilience of America’s pioneers.

Except retheming Liberty Square from a colonial port to a wilderness outpost is a lot more complicated than just repainting facades and swapping out signs. By it's very nature, the design of Liberty Square supports the notion that it is a relatively large town along a major body of water:

How do we know it's a large town? The large brick buildings: brick construction is slow and expensive, and wouldn't be the first choice at a remote outpost. It requires access to the right kind of soil (or transporting heavy materials long distances), time to form, dry, fire, and cool the bricks, a slow building assembly process, and adequately skilled labor to make it all happen. In both colonial and modern times it's much faster, cheaper, and easier to build with wood which readily grows throughout the eastern US and can be assembled with minimal training.

Additionally, the size and spatial relation of the buildings implies it's a relatively large town. Liberty Square is filled with 2-, 3-, and even 4- story buildings, which were a rarity in an era where land was abundant and vertical construction was slow and costly. When there's space, it's always cheaper to build out than it is to build up. The buildings are also squished right next to each other, implying a level of density that was only necessary in larger cities; if you look at the distinct facades, Liberty Square is much more densely packed than Main Street, reflecting it being a larger town.

The Hall of Presidents facade is reminiscent of monumental civic buildings like Independence Hall in Philadelphia or the Virginia Governor's Palace in Williamsburg (colonial capital), which simply didn't exist in places without a certain level of stature and importance. Additionally, the orderly symmetrical facades of each building reflects a design planned by someone with an architectural vision, rather than simply trying to hastily create shelter. Even smaller buildings like Ye Olde Christmas Shoppe and Sleepy Hollow are of structural types that bely a level of permanence in an established town.

How do we know it's a port city? By the size of the town and its era. Shipping by boat was far more cost effective than overland in the 1700's (and continues to be today), so towns of stature simply didn't exist without access to water. Whether the ocean coast, major rivers, or Great Lakes, some kind of navigable waterway was a necessity for a city to conduct commerce and grow. It wasn't until the late-1800's railroad boom that locations without major waterways became noteworthy cities, like Atlanta and Indianapolis.

Beyond the facades of the buildings, the interiors also reflect these elements by their very structure, not just through applied decoration. Consider Columbia Harbor House (one of MK's best themed spaces), which uses low beams, frequent columns, small window panes, and appropriate light fixtures to reinforce the idea that it was built by people familiar with shipbuilding. Contrast that with WDI's more recent "Applebee's style of decorating, where rooms are plastered with images, nicknacks, and text-heavy graphics in an attempt to force a story in a plain space; one of the worst offenders is Be Our Guest's Rose Room, which looks like a hotel ballroom that could easily be replaced by another "theme" by swapping out the artwork and furniture. Swapping out the theme of these spaces is more difficult than simple set decoration.

Additionally, it's unclear what's to gain for the park overall by changing the colonial town to a wilderness outpost: we already have that theme with Frontierland. The larger area is big enough and includes diverse enough attractions that it justifies having separate themes. Even Fantasyland (which is slightly smaller than Liberty Square and Frontierland combined) is divided into multiple distinctly themed zones, with the castle courtyard, fantasy forest, and Storybook Circus. This would be a lot of work to make MK a less diverse and interesting place to spend a day.

Frontierland, once a prosperous boom town, now struggles without the river, lost in a natural disaster, that brought it such prosperity. Remnants of the river’s past—dry riverbeds, abandoned docks, and ghost town ruins—tell the story of a town that once thrived but is now adapting to a harsher, more isolated landscape. Some locals blame the disaster on the supernatural, such as vengeful spirits.

A riverside boom town that fell on hard times after the river went away? Seems a little on-the-nose when Disney already knows that removing the river is a controversial decision.

 

[danlb_2000]

The Rivers of America is the central organizing element of Frontierland and Liberty Square. Its replacement is specifically being designed to not be that, it is intentionally being hidden.

It’s the same reason the Main Street bypasses are not the same experience as Main Street proper even though in both cases you’re ostensibly walking along walls. Even if the walls were significantly plussed it still wouldn’t be the same. The visual permeability of different edge conditions changes our perception of them. A wall with street level windows is perceived differently than one without. People drive faster when subdivisions don’t have street trees because, despite the actual edge, the curb of the road, being similar, the perceived edges of the space are different.

The Rivers of America are an edge condition but visually transparent. The obvious anachronism of cartoon cars zipping around means what we’ve been shown, a new edge condition that is visually opaque. These are opposite things and people will not respond the same to these starkly different conditions. This visual openness is also important to the story of Liberty Square and Frontierland. Adventureland is also laid out along an edge, that is also water, but its edge is opaque. The buildings of Adventureland do not follow the contour of this edge, they follow their own pattern culminating in a plaza, a space that was defined by the buildings, not the wilderness. This is because, despite being played for laughs, the wilderness of Adventureland is inhospitable and untamed, it is something kept at a distance. Frontierland is the opposite story, it is the embrace and conquering of the wilderness. The buildings follow the contour of the river, they work with it, not ignoring its presence. It’s big and open, not closed and confined which is being proposed. Without that defining feature the entire space loses the thing along which it is shaped, along which its central story is centered.

Liberty Square and Frontierland also tell a story that is intentionally bookended. They didn’t just plop things down because there wasn’t an idea of what to do with the space. The Haunted Mansion and Thunder Mesa were intentional bookends to one story. The lack of a berm is also intentional, an opportunity that remains unique to the Magic Kingdom. The Haunted Mansion is the old haunted house on the hill, its presentation was setup as something isolated. Thunder Mesa was the intended weenie for the entire two land sequence, a culmination of the story of conquering the wilderness of the frontier, a massive edifice dotted with bits of human activity. Big Thunder Mountain Railroad ended up filling that space and while visually smaller, is still something that exists as an isolated element, not something in the center of activity. These spaces are the ends of where we inhabit with more beyond our reach. Breaking this intentional bookend should also be done for strong storytelling purposes, not just perceived operational efficiencies. Efficiency is the last Key for a reason, and there are plenty of times where what operations wants is bad show. Theme parks are storytelling through built space and therefore the creation of space should have first and foremost a storytelling purpose. As much as operations gets input there’s a reason they don’t get to do the design work.

^^^^ How Disney used to think about the parks.

How Disney now thinks about the parks: "Cars make more money then river."

 

[danlb_2000]

You won’t be able to see or hear the cars.

... and you know this how?

 

[Jedi14]

... and you know this how?

I think they’re talking about how in the concept art, there is a line of trees around the Cars attraction.

 

[Brer Oswald]

This just in, a line of trees can apparently block sound.

 

[James Alucobond]

This just in, a line of trees can apparently block sound.

First of all, electric vehicles at low speeds don't make that much sound to begin with. I would imagine a lot of the sound on the attraction will be produced by the onboard audio system. Second, things look to be blocked not only by trees but also by buildings and tall rockwork with integrated water features that will naturally produce their own ambient noise. As always, I caveat this with the fact that this is based on the artwork and I do not claim to have seen the actual plans, so actual execution may differ.

 

[Bocabear]

You won’t be able to see or hear the cars. Although part of Frontierland (because the Cars area will be too small to call it a proper land and because it fits the geography and spirit of the American frontier), it will be very disconnected.

I love this quote. It’s so true.

It is a shock to lose the Rivers of America, just as it was a shock to lose many attractions over the years. But, I stand by my position that it’s a good decision.

The story of Liberty Square and Frontierland can adapt to a new story.

Liberty Square’s story can change from a town with established river trade to one sat on the last settled edge of the colonies, surrounded by forested cliffs and waterfalls.

The Haunted Mansion is the grand estate on the edge of the wild, untouched woods. It’s been said that spirits roam the woods. Those who have dared to venture into the woods have perished, but their spirits live on…somewhere.

Instead of following a river into the unknown, guests will traverse a rocky mountain pass, key obstacles in America’s westward expansion, emphasizing the resilience of America’s pioneers.

Frontierland, once a prosperous boom town, now struggles without the river, lost in a natural disaster, that brought it such prosperity. Remnants of the river’s past—dry riverbeds, abandoned docks, and ghost town ruins—tell the story of a town that once thrived but is now adapting to a harsher, more isolated landscape. Some locals blame the disaster on the supernatural, such as vengeful spirits.

and then Boom! you are in the middle of a redneck mud buggy rally with mountains that look like car parts?
I love the idea of adding backstory and trying to tie it all together.... but the placement of Tiana's Foods Factory Co-Op and Beignet Depot completely interrupts any sort of sense that could be made out of the area... There is a general sweep to the area from the golden Nugget to the Haunted mansion that feels appropriate, and is not jarring.... but to have a western frontier town become a New Orleans Bayou and then immediately change back to the the red rocks of the western frontier, and then suddenly become pacific northwest auto parts mountains with an off road car rally really throws everything out the window....If it were a continuation of the Western red rock landscape edging into the 20th century and the off road rally were in rusty old jalopies...it could span the time frame nicely....

 

[Agent H]

and then Boom! you are in the middle of a redneck mud buggy rally with mountains that look like car parts?
I love the idea of adding backstory and trying to tie it all together.... but the placement of Tiana's Foods Factory Co-Op and Beignet Depot completely interrupts any sort of sense that could be made out of the area... There is a general sweep to the area from the golden Nugget to the Haunted mansion that feels appropriate, and is not jarring.... but to have a western frontier town become a New Orleans Bayou and then immediately change back to the the red rocks of the western frontier, and then suddenly become pacific northwest auto parts mountains with an off road car rally really throws everything out the window....If it were a continuation of the Western red rock landscape edging into the 20th century and the off road rally were in rusty old jalopies...it could span the time frame nicely....
View attachment 846181

The golden nugget? This isn’t Paris.

 

[rle4lunch]

First of all, electric vehicles at low speeds don't make that much sound to begin with. I would imagine a lot of the sound on the attraction will be produced by the onboard audio system. Second, things look to be blocked not only by trees but also by buildings and tall rockwork with integrated water features that will naturally produce their own ambient noise. As always, I caveat this with the fact that this is based on the artwork and I do not claim to have seen the actual plans, so actual execution may differ.

There's so much noise in the parks anyway, these things aren't going to be noisy.. You have to literally be 100 ft from Speedway to hear the little lawnmower motors pinging on the cars.

 

[Disstevefan1]

As long as the tree lines blocks the view of this stupid thing from haunted mansion on one side and frontier land (or whatever they are going to change the name to) on the other side its fine.

 

[Agent H]

Neither is having Cars fill that spot. I would upset regardless with ROA leaving but I would understand if it was an IP that fit Frontierland.

The theme of the land or park doesn't matter to many anymore. They just want their IP they grew up with.

What are you talking about? Ip they grew up with?

 

[Agent H]

Just like Strip the King Weathers when Chick Hicks knocked him off in the Piston Cup race.

Low blow dude. low blow.

 

[Stripes]

Except retheming Liberty Square from a colonial port to a wilderness outpost is a lot more complicated than just repainting facades and swapping out signs. By it's very nature, the design of Liberty Square supports the notion that it is a relatively large town along a major body of water:

How do we know it's a large town? The large brick buildings: brick construction is slow and expensive, and wouldn't be the first choice at a remote outpost. It requires access to the right kind of soil (or transporting heavy materials long distances), time to form, dry, fire, and cool the bricks, a slow building assembly process, and adequately skilled labor to make it all happen. In both colonial and modern times it's much faster, cheaper, and easier to build with wood which readily grows throughout the eastern US and can be assembled with minimal training.

Additionally, the size and spatial relation of the buildings implies it's a relatively large town. Liberty Square is filled with 2-, 3-, and even 4- story buildings, which were a rarity in an era where land was abundant and vertical construction was slow and costly. When there's space, it's always cheaper to build out than it is to build up. The buildings are also squished right next to each other, implying a level of density that was only necessary in larger cities; if you look at the distinct facades, Liberty Square is much more densely packed than Main Street, reflecting it being a larger town.

The Hall of Presidents facade is reminiscent of monumental civic buildings like Independence Hall in Philadelphia or the Virginia Governor's Palace in Williamsburg (colonial capital), which simply didn't exist in places without a certain level of stature and importance. Additionally, the orderly symmetrical facades of each building reflects a design planned by someone with an architectural vision, rather than simply trying to hastily create shelter. Even smaller buildings like Ye Olde Christmas Shoppe and Sleepy Hollow are of structural types that bely a level of permanence in an established town.

How do we know it's a port city? By the size of the town and its era. Shipping by boat was far more cost effective than overland in the 1700's (and continues to be today), so towns of stature simply didn't exist without access to water. Whether the ocean coast, major rivers, or Great Lakes, some kind of navigable waterway was a necessity for a city to conduct commerce and grow. It wasn't until the late-1800's railroad boom that locations without major waterways became noteworthy cities, like Atlanta and Indianapolis.

Beyond the facades of the buildings, the interiors also reflect these elements by their very structure, not just through applied decoration. Consider Columbia Harbor House (one of MK's best themed spaces), which uses low beams, frequent columns, small window panes, and appropriate light fixtures to reinforce the idea that it was built by people familiar with shipbuilding. Contrast that with WDI's more recent "Applebee's style of decorating, where rooms are plastered with images, nicknacks, and text-heavy graphics in an attempt to force a story in a plain space; one of the worst offenders is Be Our Guest's Rose Room, which looks like a hotel ballroom that could easily be replaced by another "theme" by swapping out the artwork and furniture. Swapping out the theme of these spaces is more difficult than simple set decoration.

Additionally, it's unclear what's to gain for the park overall by changing the colonial town to a wilderness outpost: we already have that theme with Frontierland. The larger area is big enough and includes diverse enough attractions that it justifies having separate themes. Even Fantasyland (which is slightly smaller than Liberty Square and Frontierland combined) is divided into multiple distinctly themed zones, with the castle courtyard, fantasy forest, and Storybook Circus. This would be a lot of work to make MK a less diverse and interesting place to spend a day.


A riverside boom town that fell on hard times after the river went away? Seems a little on-the-nose when Disney already knows that removing the river is a controversial decision.

You make great points. If they were to go with this idea, Liberty Square would potentially need to be rethemed to a pioneer settlement. I don’t think it would make Magic Kingdom less interesting though. Even if Liberty Square and Frontierland combined into one land, it would still be about half the size DLP’s Frontierland. I’d imagine Haunted Mansion area could be rethemed as a nice transition between Fantasyland to Villains and Frontierland to Villains.

Although, why not tell the story of an in-land colonial capital like Williamsburg? The story of Liberty Square, as it exists today, is already imperfect given the time period inconsistencies. It is supposed to represent colonial America during the late 18th century. But the Hudson River Valley Gothic Rivival architecture of the Haunted Mansion and the presence of a paddlewheel steamship, both from the 19th century, are inconsistent.

Recognizing the river that once existed and tying it into a new story sounds exactly like something Disney would do.

 

[Bocabear]

The golden nugget? This isn’t Paris.

OK Diamond Horseshoe....Whatever......and Disneyland Paris is not actually in Paris...so.....

 

[RobbinsDad]

You make great points. If they were to go with this idea, Liberty Square would need to be rethemed to a pioneer settlement. I don’t think it would make Magic Kingdom less interesting though. Even if Liberty Square and Frontierland combined into one land, it would still be about half the size DLP’s Frontierland. I’d imagine Haunted Mansion area could be rethemed as a nice transition between Fantasyland to Villains and Frontierland to Villains.

Recognizing the river that once existed and tying it into a new story sounds exactly like something Disney would do.

I realize this is a lot like Main Street, but you could retheme all of the area from Columbia Harbor House to Tiana's as sort of early Americana theme. Diamond Horseshoe and the Arcade could be redone. Maybe even a C/D ticket could be added (Lady and the Tramp IP would fit). On the right between this land and Cars, landscaping and facades could be added that fit the theme. Frontierland or Wildnernessland or whatever could be BTM and Carsland.

 

[Stripes]

What enclosure? What is the opaque edge condition that defines Frontierland at Disneyland?

Big Thunder Trail, which tells the story of Rainbow Ridge. Disneyland’s Frontierland would feel hollow without it.