News Cars-Themed Attractions at Magic Kingdom

JD80

Well-Known Member
but we are not getting Carsland from DCA...we are getting some other place no one has ever seen before...we are getting something akin to SWGE... a place not from the source material that is made up for convenience sake and despite that, it still doesn't fit within the framework of the park....and really doesn't belong in the Magic Kingdom... It is a DHS perfect fit tonally... This is like Moana in the middle of Futureworld... Might as well put The Simpsons on Main Street...or Spider Man Webslingers in Adventureland....

1) I don't think we can compare the robustness of "source material" of SW vs Cars. It's rather silly.
2) Ever setting in any story is made up for convenience sake.
3) Magic Kingdom's framework is magic, fantasy and adventure. Anything can fit in that assuming it's done well.

All your comparisons are hyperbole.
 

Chef idea Mickey`=

Well-Known Member
It is a DHS perfect fit tonally... This is like Moana in the middle of Futureworld...
And it would have been an excellent expansion for DHS, but here we are
DHS having an area Land with foliage and fresh cooling water should be priority! I don't know why it's so difficult to have two Original Cars Lands but two Star War's Galaxy's Edge is okay and no one is attacking that from the get go. At least Cars Land would of been more popular hit than Galaxy's Edge or Toy Story Land without a doubt. It's like Iger is hesitant on Frozen so fast for California because then what excuse would you had for Cars for so many years not to clone anywhere else. Also just because it's Cars doesn't mean it will feel Cars, it's not McQueen and frontier music isn't going to feel Cars because remember your leaving Ornament Valley.

This project looks like it was supposed to be for California Adventure and would been perfect next door to Grizzly's Peak and Cars Land and Radiator Spring's would been a knockout in popularity for DHS or especially Magic Kingdom Beyond Big Thunder with breathtaking sunsets and night time ambiences.
 
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JD80

Well-Known Member
Cars Land with Radiator Spring's or the one for Magic Kingdom. Yes DHS having an area Land with foliage and fresh cooling water should be priority!

This project looks like it was supposed to be for California Adventure and would been perfect next door to Grizzly's Peak and Cars Land and Radiator Spring's would been a knockout in popularity for DHS or especially Magic Kingdom Beyond Big Thunder with breathtaking sunsets and night time ambiences.

Looks like it was supposed to be in Paris.
 

Chef idea Mickey`=

Well-Known Member
Looks like it was supposed to be in Paris.
The facades is Paris but then their Big Thunder is not in a corner it's in the middle of their river. Big Thunder is basically their TSI. If it was an expansion for Paris I don't see why the Original Cars Land wasn't brought as a third land next to Frozen and Lion King replacing the current Cars attraction. Even Cars can't go International but Frozen can but laughable not California.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
I'm going to rephrase what I'm saying. Imagine if Disney opened a brand new restaurant on Tom Sawyer Island and new places to explore. Then said everyone can enjoy it except for those in wheelchairs because you can't access it. That would be a PR disaster. If Disney decided to update Tom Sawyer Island, they'd need to create a new accessible way to get to the island and accessible routes around the island. That's a serious investment gamble into the island, especially as you don't know if the new updates will increase attendance on the island. Accessibility is a potential reason for TSI's closure
The most generous response I can have to this is that my earlier assessment was correct and you have not read Chapter 2. The scoping requirements for a new and different use are different than the scoping requirements for alterations to existing conditions. The scoping requirements are different for restaurants than they are play areas and amusement attractions. The scoping requirements for accessible routes are not what you claim.

Even if Disney decided to build a new restaurant on the island, which would be a new and different use, it would not require everything else to be made accessible. Getting to the island has already been solved in California, the rafts are already flat and rather level loading. Accessible routes only have to be provided between accessible areas. Different types of facilities have different scoping requirements, so even if there was a decision to make everything more accessible what that entails would vary across the entire complex. You’re muddling and overstating the requirements to create the image of an undue burden.
 

JMcMahonEsq

Well-Known Member
OK so I have no facts. That is a fact.

In my opinion, in today's Disney does nothing at the theme parks unless the finance committee shows how it will either reduce costs or make money (or both) over time.
You mean like any other successful business?

I mean seriously, Disney is not a charity, a non profit, or some other philanthropic organization. Its a publicly traded company that is supposed to make money.

The only reason any good business makes any change/investment in operations is in either the short term or long term it will 1) reduce costs or 2) increase revenue. Even decisions/changes that a company makes that they think will "increase customer satisfaction", are not done with the goal of simply making people happy. That is the means to the companies end of a) customer retention; b) increased consumer base; c) increased existing customer spending, all of which translate to the goal of increasing revenue.
 

Gusey

Well-Known Member
Even if Disney decided to build a new restaurant on the island, which would be a new and different use, it would not require everything else to be made accessible. Getting to the island has already been solved in California, the rafts are already flat and rather level loading. Accessible routes only have to be provided between accessible areas. Different types of facilities have different scoping requirements, so even if there was a decision to make everything more accessible what that entails would vary across the entire complex. You’re muddling and overstating the requirements to create the image of an undue burden.
100% get what you are saying and the ADA is definitely fare from perfect. If Disney did decide to make a new restaurant on Tom Sawyer Island (like others have suggested), they at least should have to add an accessible route from the dock to the restaurant, add an accessible dining area in the restaurant and convert the rafts at MK to be like Disneyland's, right? That's what I'm saying would be an investment Disney might not be willing to spend on
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
100% get what you are saying and the ADA is definitely fare from perfect. If Disney did decide to make a new restaurant on Tom Sawyer Island (like others have suggested), they at least should have to add an accessible route from the dock to the restaurant, add an accessible dining area in the restaurant and convert the rafts at MK to be like Disneyland's, right? That's what I'm saying would be an investment Disney might not be willing to spend on
You are making the very same bad argument that people who don’t want to provide accessibility make. You are overstating the costs associated with providing access. Just the operational needs of a restaurant is going to require elements that get you most of the way to being wheelchair accessible. The investment would not be too great.
 

Gusey

Well-Known Member
You are making the very same bad argument that people who don’t want to provide accessibility make. You are overstating the costs associated with providing access. Just the operational needs of a restaurant is going to require elements that get you most of the way to being wheelchair accessible. The investment would not be too great.
Well accessibility in the restaurant itself would obviously be incorporated in the design of the restaurant. The extra investment would be for the new rafts and the accessible route on the island. It just goes back to the question of how much was Disney willing to update the island or was it just easier for them to close it and replace it with another attraction
 

DisneyHead123

Well-Known Member
Even based on what we have, I could use the aesthetics card to its advantage, at least in terms of concept and choice. I believe Frontierland is the land that inevitably needed an update in its aesthetics, even if they wanted to preserve the original concept (it doesn’t feel on par with the visual appeal presented in the new lands; it doesn’t give me enough fantasy). And remembering how in the 2010s Instagram was flooded with 'aesthetic' photos of Carsland, I can see why they chose to bring the concept to MK. When I saw the concept art, the only thing my eyes focused on was the proposed visual work rather than the IP, the ride system, or the coherence with the rest of the land; it felt fresh, and I felt the same about the other lands in development. They’re something I would want to post on IG or TikTok.

I have my doubts, but I will say this is a fair argument. If they pull it off they pull it off, and then Disney gets a merch income generator while park goers get a great land. Again, the source material of Cars makes me have doubts - lots of doubts - but who knows.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Well accessibility in the restaurant itself would obviously be incorporated in the design of the restaurant. The extra investment would be for the new rafts and the accessible route on the island. It just goes back to the question of how much was Disney willing to update the island or was it just easier for them to close it and replace it with another attraction
That’s an investment that would still be required. They have to get things like supplies to the restaurant and trash out. They’re not going to swim it across and carry it by hand. They’d use something larger and more efficient than a person, something with wheels. Which means they’d already be investing in new rafts or modifications. It also means that they’d already be investing in paths with gradual slopes, minimal cross slopes and a more uniform surface.

Of course Disney decided it was easier. The Rivers have had a target on them for awhile. But it’s not because of the accessibility boogeyman. It’s weird that you don’t recognize that you keep trying to make the bogus argument used by bad actors work.
 

Gusey

Well-Known Member
Of course Disney decided it was easier. The Rivers have had a target on them for awhile. But it’s not because of the accessibility boogeyman. It’s weird that you don’t recognize that you keep trying to make the bogus argument used by bad actors work.
Because I'm not making a bogus argument? Let's agree to disagree at this point. All I've been saying is that accessibility could be a potential reason for Tom Sawyer Island's closing, amongst other reasons. Only Disney knows their reasons for closing the island, but it's going to be multitude of factors, not just "Disney hates the past and Americana"
 

Schmidt

Well-Known Member
OK so I have no facts. That is a fact.

In my opinion, in today's Disney does nothing at the theme parks unless the finance committee shows how it will either reduce costs or make money (or both) over time.

Disney's movie business on the other hand....

In my opinion, in todays Disney, as a company, the guest experience at the parks is not a consideration.
Thank goodness Disney has many cast members that take it upon themselves to try to make our visit magical.
Your response is not related to what I said at all.

In case you didn’t read the first time here is my response again.

“ honestly believe this to be factually inaccurate. I don’t know in what world that removing, filling in a river, putting up an e ticket level attraction is cheaper than maintaining a river. It’s not like the new ride won’t have operational expenses.

This addition isn’t a cost cutting measure.”

Now read what you wrote and tell me how they are related. Stop trying to spin!
 

Disstevefan1

Well-Known Member
Your response is not related to what I said at all.

In case you didn’t read the first time here is my response again.

“ honestly believe this to be factually inaccurate. I don’t know in what world that removing, filling in a river, putting up an e ticket level attraction is cheaper than maintaining a river. It’s not like the new ride won’t have operational expenses.

This addition isn’t a cost cutting measure.”

Now read what you wrote and tell me how they are related. Stop trying to spin!
No spin here, I agree with you destroying ROA and adding cars can't be cheaper than maintaining it.

In my opinion, the finance committee spins a story about how much money they save by destroying and replacing in a existing space instead of expanding into undeveloped land and how much money they can make by putting an attraction in that space and sell LLs for it.

Its all in the spreadsheets.

Do I agree with the destruction of ROA, TSI and the loss of the riverboat? No of course not.
 

ToTBellHop

Well-Known Member
Losing ROA is a leg amputation without anesthesia.
There will be anesthesia.
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$5.99 each
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$49.99 per 20 oz.
 
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Mr. Sullivan

Well-Known Member
I have my doubts, but I will say this is a fair argument. If they pull it off they pull it off, and then Disney gets a merch income generator while park goers get a great land. Again, the source material of Cars makes me have doubts - lots of doubts - but who knows.
I too don’t really think Cars is the best choice here but I’m personally treating that as a whole separate thing from the aesthetics. I believe this really could be beautiful if done right. We are not getting the same land that is at DCA no, but I think it’s a nice indication that they can ring something beautiful out of a property that isn’t inherently beautiful in and of itself.

Like the post you were responding to mentioned, Frontierland has been due an overhaul. It aesthetically has aged a lot and doesn’t have the same energy and spirit that the other lands in the park do.

I am absolutely not sold yet on the chosen IP and will not be sold until it’s done. But I don’t think getting rid of the Rivers is inherently a poor choice as long as what goes on top of it is also pretty and gives the land some much needed rejuvenated energy. It’s long been a tired part of the park.

If they screw it up, I’ll be the first to say it was a mistake. But in concept, this isn’t the horrible idea that many are making it out to be. Replacing the River with something new that is also pretty but injects some needed life into the land while also giving MK something unique to it (which it desperately needs). The IP is a big question mark though, and I agree with that fear/critique wholeheartedly. They gotta sell me and many others on that.

But I can’t get behind the idea that we’re losing something pretty to gain something ugly because that remains to be seen.
 

DisneyHead123

Well-Known Member
I too don’t really think Cars is the best choice here but I’m personally treating that as a whole separate thing from the aesthetics. I believe this really could be beautiful if done right. We are not getting the same land that is at DCA no, but I think it’s a nice indication that they can ring something beautiful out of a property that isn’t inherently beautiful in and of itself.

Like the post you were responding to mentioned, Frontierland has been due an overhaul. It aesthetically has aged a lot and doesn’t have the same energy and spirit that the other lands in the park do.

I am absolutely not sold yet on the chosen IP and will not be sold until it’s done. But I don’t think getting rid of the Rivers is inherently a poor choice as long as what goes on top of it is also pretty and gives the land some much needed rejuvenated energy. It’s long been a tired part of the park.

If they screw it up, I’ll be the first to say it was a mistake. But in concept, this isn’t the horrible idea that many are making it out to be. Replacing the River with something new that is also pretty but injects some needed life into the land while also giving MK something unique to it (which it desperately needs). The IP is a big question mark though, and I agree with that fear/critique wholeheartedly. They gotta sell me and many others on that.

But I can’t get behind the idea that we’re losing something pretty to gain something ugly because that remains to be seen.

Funnily enough, I think I’m biased against this IP because I’m the target audience, lol. Or at least my family is. Hotwheels are something I clean up about twice a day until I give up and let my living room be chaos. Quite frankly I’m kinda sick of looking at them and don’t particularly want to pay to go to a Disney park to see more of them. If it would bring some kind of magic into my son’s life, sure, but in reality I think he’d be happier going to Target and just buying a giant Hotwheels set.

I agree that it’s not impossible to make this IP work. I also think it’s important to note that Disney has struggled with presumably “easier” IPs in the recent past though. Plenty of people have been unhappy with Tiana, Star Wars, and Toy Story in the parks. Those should probably have been easier to assimilate in a charming manner - so what are the chances that they beat the odds to make Cars something really immersive and appealing? Again, I don’t think it’s impossible, but I would feel much better if they had chosen a safer project for this area. New Orleans Square would have been my first pick but Coco would be pretty promising as well. I don’t think Cars will be awful but my best guess is that it ends up being a 5 out of 10. We’ll see though.
 

Mr. Sullivan

Well-Known Member
Funnily enough, I think I’m biased against this IP because I’m the target audience, lol. Or at least my family is. Hotwheels are something I clean up about twice a day until I give up and let my living room be chaos. Quite frankly I’m kinda sick of looking at them and don’t particularly want to pay to go to a Disney park to see more of them. If it would bring some kind of magic into my son’s life, sure, but in reality I think he’d be happier going to Target and just buying a giant Hotwheels set.

I agree that it’s not impossible to make this IP work. I also think it’s important to note that Disney has struggled with presumably “easier” IPs in the recent past though. Plenty of people have been unhappy with Tiana, Star Wars, and Toy Story in the parks. Those should probably have been easier to assimilate in a charming manner - so what are the chances that they beat the odds to make Cars something really immersive and appealing? Again, I don’t think it’s impossible, but I would feel much better if they had chosen a safer project for this area. New Orleans Square would have been my first pick but Coco would be pretty promising as well. I don’t think Cars will be awful but my best guess is that it ends up being a 5 out of 10. We’ll see though.
That’s a fair question to ask! While I like Tiana’s and Galaxy’s Edge (I like the attractions of Toy Story Land but the land itself I don’t much care for), you’re right in that they didn’t earn the sort of universal acclaim that some other projects have.

I guess I am less nervous that it will turn out badly because they created something great with Cars once for one, and two they already have another land that they can model this off of (Grizzly Peak). If they marry the aesthetic beauty of Grizzly Peak with the charm and attention to detail of Cars Land I think that it’ll be fine.

The only part I’m concerned about is what steps they take (or don’t take) to actually achieve the conceptual justification of Cars in this area. That part is what they’re gonna have to sell me on. If they can successfully story wise justify it then I’ll be on board with the IP. At the moment, I’m just on board with the core concept of overhauling Frontierland into something more unique and wider in scope.
 

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