Carousel of Progress refurb?

[Goofyernmost]

I give up... you guys just don't get it. I am not going to go over the same information over and over and over. If you don't like it walk on past it. For those of us that can appreciate what it is and what it represents, we would still like to be able to see it in it's slightly altered, but, basically original form.

The one comment I might make is that Great Big Beautiful Tomorrow was the original at the Worlds Fair and at Disneyland. It changed to "Best Time of Our Lives" when it moved to WDW and then in the late 90's was altered for the last scene and the original GBBT was put back in the show. There is nothing that can be done that will not erase the early scenes in place of things we already know because we have either lived through them or are currently living through them. We almost lost it completely before it was redone in the 90's. Personally I do not want to lose it completely, but, it either will remain the same or it will be bulldozed. I'd like it to stay.

 

[wdwtopten]

Perhaps I misunderstand, but aren't today's Blu-ray DVDs actually laserdiscs, in that they are played by reading the discs with lasers (laser diodes)?

They are all optical discs, but only a Laserdisc is a Laserdisc.

 

[wdwtopten]

Why move it? What are they supposed to put in CoP's place at Magic Kingdom then? Location is not the problem..

Some think that it doesn't fit the theme of Tomorrow Land, but I don't mind it.

 

[WondersOfLife]

Some think that it doesn't fit the theme of Tomorrow Land, but I don't mind it.

I think it fits just as well as Laugh Floor Comedy Club does.. Actually, it fits better than that! It talks about "progress" which can't happen without "tomorrow!"

 

[Eric1955]

Love the attraction, but I think Walt would've wanted it updated to reflect the generation viewing it rather than an historical museum piece. Back in the 60s, the decades featured and the timelines made sense to those viewing it, not so much anymore. If I were to redo it, I'd start it out in the 50s then go forward to present day and then a crazy view of the future.

I know Walt didn’t wan’t the parks to become a museum, and if he had lived a lot longer I’m sure the ride would have been changed drastically or even been removed. However, I think Carousel of Progress has become historically significant enough to need preserving for future generations. It’s a part of Walt’s legacy, and I think it would be a travesty to lose the scenes he created.

I’m still convinced the best way to preserve COP and have it still make sense is to return the final scene to the 60’s. The new focus of COP would be on Walt’s spirit of optimism. By having COP show progress during the period of Walt’s life (1900’s to 1960’s). The show could end by actually mentioning Walt and saying something like: “Look how far America came during the life of Walt Disney. Much has changed since then and it seems America has lost that great spirit of optimism that Walt had, but now is your chance to change that. So go out there and give the world a great big beautiful tomorrow.”

Perhaps a bit old fashioned and corny, but what can I say? I’m schmaltzy kinda guy.

 

[rct247]

I have a movie tie-in for COP. It's called Tomorrowland. The upcoming movie will feature it in a scene.

 

[Marc Gil]

I say remove the show from MK and transfer it over to Disneyland back in its 1967 format as both a tribute to Walt Disney's legacy and as a tribute to Disneyland's 60th Anniversary.

The show should be restored back to either its 1967 format or the original 1964 format (GE references removed) to properly act as a tribute. The upstairs portion of the carousel theatre should include a restored Progress City model and some exhibits about how some of those technologies in Progress City were implemented at WDW. The post-show should also have some sort of tribute to Walt Disney's fascination with the future.

Disneylanders will welcome the attraction with a warm embrace, and I'm sure as hell TDA will keep the attraction running the way it should.

But seriously, why is this thread in News/Rumors?

 

[imagineer boy]

I give up... you guys just don't get it. I am not going to go over the same information over and over and over. If you don't like it walk on past it. For those of us that can appreciate what it is and what it represents, we would still like to be able to see it in it's slightly altered, but, basically original form.

You do realize of course that there is this fascinating concept called "opinion" right?

 

[El Grupo]

Why move it? What are they supposed to put in CoP's place at Magic Kingdom then? Location is not the problem..

Never said location was a problem. However, my understanding is that Horizons served as a de facto sequel to CoP. Putting both in a shared pavilion in EPCOT would allow CoP to remain in its present form to show progress made over the last century and to serve as an introductory attraction for a new Horizons that could be updated to show what lies ahead.

This could mean an addition to EPCOT, the maintenance of a beloved attraction (CoP) and the return (in some fashion) of another (Horizons). And, some potential addition to Tomorrowland. What that would be I'll leave up to the Imagineers. But, I suspect there are plenty of good ideas for that area.

 

[DisneyGentleman]

You do realize of course that there is this fascinating concept called "opinion" right?

Cranks don't allow opinions.

 

[VJ]

I know Walt didn’t wan’t the parks to become a museum, and if he had lived a lot longer I’m sure the ride would have been changed drastically or even been removed. However, I think Carousel of Progress has become historically significant enough to need preserving for future generations. It’s a part of Walt’s legacy, and I think it would be a travesty to lose the scenes he created.

I’m still convinced the best way to preserve COP and have it still make sense is to return the final scene to the 60’s. The new focus of COP would be on Walt’s spirit of optimism. By having COP show progress during the period of Walt’s life (1900’s to 1960’s). The show could end by actually mentioning Walt and saying something like: “Look how far America came during the life of Walt Disney. Much has changed since then and it seems America has lost that great spirit of optimism that Walt had, but now is your chance to change that. So go out there and give the world a great big beautiful tomorrow.”

Perhaps a bit old fashioned and corny, but what can I say? I’m schmaltzy kinda guy.

I back this little piece of armchair Imagineering 100%. I also like the idea of the attraction showing the progress of America over the span of a hundred years (which seems to be the way it's currently going, though with a weird mix-and-match technology finale).

 

[Bocabear]

Both COP and Small World really belong in EPCOT as they were both developed for the World's Fair...which is pretty much what EPCOT was modeled on... I don't see Disney ever investing the money it would take to move those two attractions over, but wow what a dream that would be... Properly built out Small World complete with Gardens a la Disneyland as the opening "Act" for World Showcase, And the Carousel of Progress just behind SSE...So you would get the history of communication and the American history of innovation at the central core of Futureworld...
Then develop something amazing for Tomorrowland (Plectu's Galactic Review?) Move Peter Pan across the Esplanade for a larger longer 21st century version of Peter Pan's Flight, Put a Tangled or Frozen ride in the Peter Pan slot, and viola! More needed attractions for EPCOT, more needed capacity and better fit for Magic Kingdom...

 

[Goofyernmost]

You do realize of course that there is this fascinating concept called "opinion" right?

Opinion is, of course, a personal feeling and opinion only can go as far as what one likes and what one doesn't like. It doesn't alter fact! The reasoning behind the concept of CoP is not subject to opinion. It has been documented many times and many places by people that were actually there during planning and building. Opinion does not change the reality of what it was supposed to be and that altering it to the extremes that seem to be asked for, would indeed completely change the intent and the meaning of the attraction. If that were to happen then I will be at the head of the line calling for it to be bulldozed. It will no longer be what was intended and therefore be meaningless. How's that for opinion?

 

[imagineer boy]

Opinion is, of course, a personal feeling and opinion only can go as far as what one likes and what one doesn't like. It doesn't alter fact! The reasoning behind the concept of CoP is not subject to opinion. It has been documented many times and many places by people that were actually there during planning and building. Opinion does not change the reality of what it was supposed to be and that altering it to the extremes that seem to be asked for, would indeed completely change the intent and the meaning of the attraction. If that were to happen then I will be at the head of the line calling for it to be bulldozed. It will no longer be what was intended and therefore be meaningless. How's that for opinion?

I honestly don't see how changing up the time periods would change the spirit or meaning of the attraction at all. As long as it's about progress through the years, what difference does it make?

 

[marni1971]

Wasn't there some alien show envisioned for the circle theater? I think it was for Disneyland's Tomorrowland though, not that it matters. Plectu's Galatic Revue? .

Yes. Followed by the Flying Saucers.

Thankfully neither happened.

Nowerdays we get excited if they give it new carpet. Just let them try and touch it.

 

[Expo_Seeker40]

That would not only mess up the timing, big time, it would also be never ending. The future changes everyday. When first conceived it was fairly simple to predict what was coming, now, with the speed of technology, it is nothing short of an impossibility.

Horizons was built to carry on from where CoP left off. You cannot see the history of progress without seeing what was in the past. Horizons is, of course, gone and nothing has replaced it. Based on what I just said, it isn't likely either because by the time the would get the future imagined and built, it will have changed completely. CoP needs some TLC in upkeep and mechanical upgrading, but, in my opinion it must remain a historical part of the experience. We know what today is and no one knows what tomorrow will bring, so why not just use it as a jumping off point for our own imaginations. We can guess as well as they can.

How would it mess up timing by adding in a future scene that can be so far out and outlandish that is old needs to be changed every so often? In my version: it's being presented by the tomorrow land metro retro historical society.

Returning acts 1-4 to as close as possible to their original world's fair look, allows the ride to exist as a tribute to its roots, to walt disney, and as a way for all generations to see what life was like back then. Adding in a new future scene, allows the original ride to exist as-is, but build interest in the possible future.

Again, a pre show would explain that the tomorrow land metro retro historical society acquired the ride, that it shows human life before electricity to the dawn of computers as seen through the same lifetime of the ride's. creator, walt disney. Then the TMRHS adds their own ending (replacing the unload theater) that can always be updated when needed.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I honestly don't see how changing up the time periods would change the spirit or meaning of the attraction at all. As long as it's about progress through the years, what difference does it make?

That would be because you don't get the reason for that show. You could start a new show that begins at 1950, but, how would that tell you how massively we have advance since the beginning of the 20th century? Or up to the 1950's for that matter. If we want to start anew, then we add something to continue on, we don't erase where it all came from. Without that beginning and without the measured spans of time between segments and the ability to see the pace of change it tells us nothing. Then all it becomes is a show with animatronics and a catch song.

The original show did show history and then with the last scene it became an imagined look at the future. The ship carrying the ability to project the future, considering the rate of change that we experience today, has left the dock. It has sailed. If we could now look at it as a "Back to the Future" attitude then the burden of having to guess a new final scene would be gone and we could appreciate the story that it tells, without needing to be ahead of ourselves when the likelihood that the vision will be completely wrong. Some one mentioned the laser discs and the car phones. Those, at the time, were visions of the future. Although they did pass briefly through our actuality, they were out of the picture by the time that the scene was even built. Every scene in the show, every era that it passes puts us in THAT particular time frame. All references, at all scenes, are today is great and it couldn't get better. Why do we feel compelled to make the final scene the future. Why can it not just be time as it was then. We can laugh at the antiquity of it, just like we did for the other scenes because we don't live in it anymore. That way it never gets dated and they can concentrate on just taking care of the show and keeping it running another 50 years.

 

[Goofyernmost]

How would it mess up timing by adding in a future scene that can be so far out and outlandish that is old needs to be changed every so often? In my version: it's being presented by the tomorrow land metro retro historical society.

Returning acts 1-4 to as close as possible to their original world's fair look, allows the ride to exist as a tribute to its roots, to walt disney, and as a way for all generations to see what life was like back then. Adding in a new future scene, allows the original ride to exist as-is, but build interest in the possible future.

Again, a pre show would explain that the tomorrow land metro retro historical society acquired the ride, that it shows human life before electricity to the dawn of computers as seen through the same lifetime of the ride's. creator, walt disney. Then the TMRHS adds their own ending (replacing the unload theater) that can always be updated when needed.

Because there is no human being alive that can imagine life, in any real sense, in the future. It would not be credible because it would almost have to be more like a Sci-FY movie. Unreal and unimaginable as reality. It would be senseless. We will have that coming with Star Wars in all likelihood. Let's take our wildest dream future from there where we can at least wrap our brains around it as a fantasy.

I won't even mention just how adverse Disney, at this point in time, would be to actually designing something that would require periodic updating in order to have any degree of identifiability with our future. Build something different to show future thoughts and leave CoP to stand on it's own.There is a difference between how something like PoTC, HM or Star Wars can be depicted as opposed to something that has to line up with actual human experience and realities.

 

[WondersOfLife]

Never said location was a problem. However, my understanding is that Horizons served as a de facto sequel to CoP. Putting both in a shared pavilion in EPCOT would allow CoP to remain in its present form to show progress made over the last century and to serve as an introductory attraction for a new Horizons that could be updated to show what lies ahead.

This could mean an addition to EPCOT, the maintenance of a beloved attraction (CoP) and the return (in some fashion) of another (Horizons). And, some potential addition to Tomorrowland. What that would be I'll leave up to the Imagineers. But, I suspect there are plenty of good ideas for that area.

Maintenance.. Upgrade? In EPCOT? Shared with a new Horizons attraction? Nahhh.. Nah... Last I remembered, Horizons closed due to it becoming increasingly outdated and unpopular... Same with Wonders of Life.. Something tells me that after a few years or so, Horizons AND CoP in one pavilion will create the new "mega outdated pavilion all in one!"

But in all honesty, I actually like the idea.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

Horizons closed because it lost its sponsor, as stated numerous times by insiders here. Any other "reasons" for its closure weren't really major contributing factors. A refurb similar to SSE '94 was planned in the mid 90's to bring it up to modern standards, but canceled when Disney found a new sponsor that demanded a different attraction be built. That was preferable to keeping a sponsor-less Horizons. I'm guessing something similar happened with Wonders of Life. It's also largely what happened recently with Maelstrom when Disney tried to coerce Norway into paying them off to keep the ride (it remained a consistently popular attraction until the day it closed, massively so when people learned of its demise).

I'm quite sure that if a new sponsor came along and demanded the closure of even a beloved and popular sponsor-less attraction (such as Pirates of the Caribbean), Disney would jump at the opportunity. Even if the proposed replacement sucked from a concept perspective and ended up being incredibly unpopular with guests (Disney would be perfectly content to have someone shouldering the budget and would ignore all the negative publicity). GM were the ones who dictated the closure of World of Motion in favor of Test Track, along with the "Tron" overhaul (which GM apparently paid for).