Captain Marvel 2: "The Marvels" -- Nov 10, 2023 Theatrical Release

[_caleb]

“I wonder why the people we routinely and deliberately mischaracterize won’t come out to watch the film we’ve relentlessly mocked for pandering to them (even though it doesn’t)?”

 

[Disstevefan1]

I finally saw The Marvels last night… As someone who just enjoys going to the movie theaters and not deep into the comic book lore… I thought it was fun… it’s no masterpiece, but it was a great time at the movies… Like many people I found The Memories scene hysterical… I also thought Iman Vellani was great… I hope she continues on as Ms Marvel…and loved the chemistry between the 3… Plus I always think Brie Larson is great… she has had so much unnecessary hate these last few years

This should be doing better than it is… definitely does not deserve a worse tomato meter than Thor: The Dark World or worse box office than Quantummania… I actually think your average everyday person would enjoy The Marvels as enjoyable escapism entertainment

You characterize the movie correctly, fun.

The problem is with the insane budgets, expectations are set too high, and then when folks report back saying it was fun or ok, folks are let down.

There is nothing wrong with making a fun movie. They just need spend less to make them.

From the data, it seems (mostly older men?) purchased tickets to this film, but they really needed everyone including the teen boys and girls to go out to see this film to cover the costs.

Well, it still seems true that when Iger purchased Marvel, he purchased it to create content for the boys because the girls were covered by the princesses.

Well, the boys showed up.

 

[Joel]

How much will The Marvels be worth in Disney+ subscriptions?

Just in general, I think the number of people who will subscribe (and stay subscribed) to a streaming service they don't already have for a movie that bombed is minuscule. Maybe it comes out on D+ and buzz builds for it as people realize what they missed out on, and it generates new subscribers that way. I wouldn't be counting on that scenario, though.

Ad revenue on all the YouTube videos about it?

Are they copyright claiming all the videos criticizing it? Otherwise, almost nothing.

“I wonder why the people we routinely and deliberately mischaracterize won’t come out to watch the film we’ve relentlessly mocked for pandering to them (even though it doesn’t)?”

How many women do you think make their movie-going decisions based on what some dudes online say about a film -- especially considering how these dudes are frequently characterized, on this very forum and elsewhere?

 

[Disstevefan1]

Do we think this will be on D+ for Christmas?

It would be a nice little film to watch while drinking my eggnog and sugar cookies.

 

[Willmark]

So who exactly should be blamed for the movie’s poor performance?

As told but at least one poster here, it’s the fault of the demographic who were the ones who actually bought tickets and showed up.

 

[Disstevefan1]

So who exactly should be blamed for the movie’s poor performance?

As told but at least one poster here, it’s the fault of the demographic who were the ones who actually bought tickets and showed up.

We cant blame the folks who actually purchased tickets and showed up!

We must blame everyone who did not purchase tickets.

 

[_caleb]

So who exactly should be blamed for the movie’s poor performance?

As told but at least one poster here, it’s the fault of the demographic who were the ones who actually bought tickets and showed up.

Do try to think with just a bit of complexity here. There isn't just one single thing/person/group to "blame" for the movie's low box office return. There are many factors, and we've been trying to discuss them. Your post is disingenuous, at best.

This isn't merely a matter of one demographic buying tickets and showing up while some other demographic did not.

 

[TP2000]

Box office data for the weekend is being revised and will be released shortly, and for The Marvels it's revised down even further.

It looks like The Marvels just slipped into 4th place for the weekend behind the oddly timed and low budget horror/slasher movie Thanksgiving.

A full box office update coming in later this afternoon over in the Box Office thread.

 

[Disstevefan1]

How much will The Marvels be worth in Disney+ subscriptions?

So someone correct me, but when they put the Marvels on D+ Disney's movie business charge TWDC fake money as if they sold the Marvels to Netflix.

They move some fake money from one pocket to another pocket and they can say The Marvels made this much more fake money from putting it on D+

 

[networkpro]

So someone correct me, but when they put the Marvels on D+ they move some fake money from one pocket to another pocket and they can say The Marvels made this much more fake money from putting it on D+

Any accounting shift of funds is specious when they try and equate a single non-blockbuster's (theatrical release, not how much that was spent producing it) impact on subscriber revenue when its not a PPV. It's akin to saying that the croutons for the salad was the prime attractor to the buffet and not the variety of the entrees.

 

[_caleb]

So someone correct me, but when they put the Marvels on D+ they move some fake money from one pocket to another pocket and they can say The Marvels made this much more fake money from putting it on D+

Not sure how it’s “fake,” but it seems like it would be difficult to quantify the value of something like a new Marvel film to the platform.

How do you measure how many subscribers held off cancelling for another month because of The Marvels? Or how many came to (or came back to) D+ to watch it?

How do you give credit to The Marvels for those who may have gone back and watched Captain Marvel, WandaVision, or Ms. Marvel because of it?

 

[Disstevefan1]

Not sure how it’s “fake,” but it seems like it would be difficult to quantify the value of something like a new Marvel film to the platform.

How do you measure how many subscribers held off cancelling for another month because of The Marvels? Or how many came to (or came back to) D+ to watch it?

How do you give credit to The Marvels for those who may have gone back and watched Captain Marvel, WandaVision, or Ms. Marvel because of it?

Maybe I got it wrong, but lets say Disney sold the rights to show the Marvels to Netflix.

Netflix would actually send real money to Disney and the movie made that money.

(I think) it works the same way. Disney puts the Marvels on D+. Fake money goes toward money made from the movie.

As for gaining keeping subs , this is just more new content (they HOPE) will gain or keep subs like She Hulk.

 

[MrPromey]

Not sure how it’s “fake,” but it seems like it would be difficult to quantify the value of something like a new Marvel film to the platform.

How do you measure how many subscribers held off cancelling for another month because of The Marvels? Or how many came to (or came back to) D+ to watch it?

How do you give credit to The Marvels for those who may have gone back and watched Captain Marvel, WandaVision, or Ms. Marvel because of it?

And the good news for Disney is nobody has to start trying to answer that question until 2024.

As long as they pay that premium to get this on the platform before what? Q3 of next year? They get to pay themselves however much they want for it* since D+ only has to start turning a profit by the end of that year.

*Obviously that's a bit of an exaggeration but it's not like they'll be low-balling themselves when trying to make the studio performance look better on paper since they are accountable there where for D+, they're still not.

 

[Disstevefan1]

And the good news for Disney is nobody has to start trying to answer that question until 2024.

As long as they pay that premium to get this on the platform before what? Q3 of next year? They get to pay themselves however much they want for it since D+ only has to start turning a profit by the end of that year.

I was hoping they would dump release the Marvels on to D+ this Christmas.

 

[MrPromey]

I was hoping they would dump release the Marvels on to D+ this Christmas.

The way things are going, they might. They did it with Encanto and that was a much later November release.

At the current rate, I'd be surprised if it lasted in theaters that long.

I thought it was a fun movie so it could be win-win all the way around for the company and people if they did.

 

[doctornick]

So who exactly should be blamed for the movie’s poor performance?

Ultimately, I wonder the answer to that question. It's easy to suggest the movie studio for putting out a subpar product, but personally I found it to be a film that "should" do just as well as any other Marvel film had done. Outside of I guess suggesting "you shouldn't have done a Captain Marvel or The Marvels film" in general, I think they made a good product based on the premise at hand.

I personally have really loved the MCU over the years and haven't been disappointed by any film (nor would I have a reason to not continue to see them in the theaters, where they are largely the only films I make it a point to see in that venue). I haven't seen the alleged drop off in quality in movies since Endgame. Probably no great peaks, but I think the criticism towards the "failures" to me are over the top (Eternals and Quatumania which I think were the worse were both serviceable films and I actually really liked Love & Thunder).

Now, I do think the TV shows have been all over the place and there's been some bad stuff there. But none of that has led me, at least, to not value the movies which have remained consistently good. I would however like to see more quality control there and to limit the number of series that potentially are a key part of the pivotal MCU storyline (i.e. in this case the Multiverse Saga) as opposed to being more independent and not necessary to watch for the greater storyline. I actually think Marvel Spotlight would be good in that regard.

I guess ultimately what my question is is this: what should Marvel do going forward? Because I don't know. I don't see what is "wrong" with the current movies to suggest what to do better. The biggest thing I can come up with is they need to be more tight in their storylines and interconnectiveness (in the movies) to have them feel like they are building to something more. Because it has seemed more uneven so far since the pandemic.

 

[doctornick]

Not sure how it’s “fake,” but it seems like it would be difficult to quantify the value of something like a new Marvel film to the platform.

How do you measure how many subscribers held off cancelling for another month because of The Marvels? Or how many came to (or came back to) D+ to watch it?

How do you give credit to The Marvels for those who may have gone back and watched Captain Marvel, WandaVision, or Ms. Marvel because of it?

They actually can do some of this because they know specific accounts and what they watch and when. So, if a person watches The Marvels on D+ and then goes and watches WandaVision or Ms. Marvel after it would probably be a good indication those things are related. Obviously wouldn't be 100% accurate, but they could probably get a good feel.

They also know how many folks watch a movie immediately after it drops onto D+ which would reflect at least some level of interest in it (probably give you a good sense of how many are "waiting to watch for free" on D+)

And if someone (re-)subscribes, binges certain shows, then cancels, that gives them an idea of what is bringing them to the service and thus what they need more of.

 

[TP2000]

The way things are going, they might. They did it with Encanto and that was a much later November release.

At the current rate, I'd be surprised if it lasted in theaters that long.

What's interesting about that is that The Marvels had over 4,000 theaters for its second weekend, even with its 78% drop from last weekend. It still is in hundreds more theaters than Hunger Games and the other three movies that came out this weekend and clobbered it at the box office.

I have to assume that Disney has an agreement with the theater chains to pull that off, even when a movie flops badly like The Marvels did.

But how much longer do the theater chains have to devote thousands of theaters to The Marvels while it drops into obscurity and is forgotten as the Thanksgiving and Christmas movies come out the next few weeks? I'd love to know if Disney has to pay money to get that type of theater presence, or if it's just a decades old habit of giving the latest Disney mega-budget tentpole a wide berth in America's multiplexes?

However that theater allotment agreement is worked out, it didn't work for The Marvels.

 

[Disstevefan1]

What's interesting about that is that The Marvels had over 4,000 theaters for its second weekend, even with its 78% drop from last weekend. It still is in hundreds more theaters than Hunger Games and the other three movies that came out this weekend and clobbered it at the box office.

I have to assume that Disney has an agreement with the theater chains to pull that off, even when a movie flops badly like The Marvels did.

But how much longer do the theater chains have to devote thousands of theaters to The Marvels while it drops into obscurity and is forgotten as the Thanksgiving and Christmas movies come out the next few weeks? I'd love to know if Disney has to pay money to get that type of theater presence, or if it's just a decades old habit of giving the latest Disney mega-budget tentpole a wide berth in America's multiplexes?

However that theater allotment agreement is worked out, it didn't work for The Marvels.

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At least the Marvels is ahead of Five Nights this week.

Lets hope the Marvels can beat Five Nights in total gross eventually

 

[_caleb]

They actually can do some of this because they know specific accounts and what they watch and when. So, if a person watches The Marvels and then goes and watches WandaVision or Ms. Marvel after it would probably be a good indication those things are related. Obviously wouldn't be 100% accurate, but they could probably get a good feel.

They also know how many folks watch a movie immediately after it drops onto D+ which would reflect at least some level of interest in it (probably give you a good sense of how many are "waiting to watch for free on D+)

And if someone (re-)subscribes, binges certain shows, then cancels, that gives them an idea of what is bringing them to the service and thus what they need more of.

Exactly. They have pretty good data on all this. But it also points to Disney's larger strategy: they're looking at the whole thing in terms of one big effort to remake their movie business and keep the MCU machine going/growing, not a series of independent one-off box office releases.