Those are exactly the movies I avoid.
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Captain Marvel 2: "The Marvels" -- Nov 10, 2023 Theatrical Release
- Thread starter MisterPenguin
- Start date
Those are exactly the movies I avoid.
Casper Gutman
Well-Known Member
In fact, that version of Captain Marvel, Mar-Vell, appears in the first film… played by Annette Benning in one of the only actual gender-swappings in the whole MCU. The only other non-Eternals examples, I believe, are the Ancient One, Ghost, and Taskmaster. What actually happens in the MCU matters a lot less then what the very powerful outrage network vaguely insinuates happens in the MCU.
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TheMaxRebo
Well-Known Member
I know this doesn't mean much but looks like critics ratings have gone up a bit and audience across are solid
MrPromey
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately, they released the clip so it does whether it's canon or not.
I'd have never gotten confused there if I hadn't seen it.
That's a cut scene that probably should have stayed in the vault, IMO.
MrPromey
Well-Known Member
I'll defer to Casper on that but regardless, I probably didn't use that expression correctly.
What I meant was, it wasn't like they'd written the characters in the movie as stereotypical men and then just made them women which I think, is the other mistake that gets made sometimes.
They show the relationships between the characters more authentically.
For instance, the way Peter and Tony relate initially and ongoing is very different from how Carol and Iman relate.
Again - and just my opinion - I think that's a good thing.
I think strong word of mouth is going to carry this one longer than expected. Plus filmgoers are finally ready for another Marvel outing.
Casper Gutman
Well-Known Member
Cut scenes are not part of the cinematic text! You seem to be really struggling to make this Marvel’s fault. I suspect you thought it happened because people who complain about the M-She-U pretend it did because the actual text of the films provides very little support for thier arguments. Now, I’m NOT saying you’re one of those people, but it’s very easy for anyone to accept bad faith arguments when they’re so prevalent in the discourse. That’s why clarity and demanding specific examples is so important.Unfortunately, they released the clip so it does whether it's canon or not.
I'd have never gotten confused there if I hadn't seen it.
That's a cut scene that probably should have stayed in the vault, IMO.
Tha Realest
Well-Known Member
It is tied for the lowest Cinemascore of Marvel films, so WOM isn’t going to be great. And if filmgoers have been waiting for a new Marvel film, where were they Thursday and the rest of this weekend?
Tha Realest
Well-Known Member
I haven’t watched this deleted scene in question, but since the film is such an homage to the 90’s, this seems so obviously like that early scene in T2 where the T-800 needs to acquire clothes.
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar?
Casper Gutman
Well-Known Member
It was - and at that point in the movie Marvel is an emotionless alien fighting machine, so the parallel is even more obvious. But the concept still upset a lot of “viewers,” and it still doesn’t matter because it wasn’t in the movie.
Willmark
Well-Known Member
I think the biggest problem among many is the character itself. Carol Danvers has had quite a few incarnations and they have inflated her powers where she’s the quasi Superman of the Marvel Universe, certainly in the MCU. As such she has all the same problems of an overpowered character. She can likely solve any of the issues that arise in almost any story, same as Superman, all by herself. That in and of itself often makes for boring stories. Does she really need the other two in this movie?
But as far as Carol? Consider first:
Original is Mar-Vell, warrior of the Kree- Not too overpowered in the comics with abilities of enhanced strength, body protection and his most powerful ability: Cosmic Sense which allowed him to become one with the Universe as it were. Also possessed
his nega-bands.
Carol steps in after Captain Marvel‘s death
Carol as originally Ms. Marvel- Body armor, enhanced strength, flight and Combat Sense (sorta like a 6th Sense). Sporting the bikini and go-go boot red and blue costume.
In the late seventies (maybe around 1980) same powers, but moves to the iconic black costume with the sash. In a fight with Rogue she is permanently drained of all of her powers and her memoirs as well transfers to Rogue.
Binary- Carol is part of the Starjammers and X-Men (sorta) and is greatly enhanced in powers, she has the powers of a star, can shoot energy blasts, flight, cosmic perception , survive the vacuum of space, release immense amounts of power among others.
From there is where I checked out of comics (late 80s/early 90s) and eventually she morphed into Captain Marvel as she is now.
I did check and somehow I’ve got a few Ms Marvel’s. Not sure where this one came from, but it was in a box that got damaged in a flood a number of years back. Ms Marvel #17 from May 1978.
Also to add: I “know” Captain Marvel more as Monica Rambeau than either Mar-Vell or Carol when she was with the Avengers. For Carol I know her as Binary.
But as far as Carol? Consider first:
Original is Mar-Vell, warrior of the Kree- Not too overpowered in the comics with abilities of enhanced strength, body protection and his most powerful ability: Cosmic Sense which allowed him to become one with the Universe as it were. Also possessed
his nega-bands.
Carol steps in after Captain Marvel‘s death
Carol as originally Ms. Marvel- Body armor, enhanced strength, flight and Combat Sense (sorta like a 6th Sense). Sporting the bikini and go-go boot red and blue costume.
In the late seventies (maybe around 1980) same powers, but moves to the iconic black costume with the sash. In a fight with Rogue she is permanently drained of all of her powers and her memoirs as well transfers to Rogue.
Binary- Carol is part of the Starjammers and X-Men (sorta) and is greatly enhanced in powers, she has the powers of a star, can shoot energy blasts, flight, cosmic perception , survive the vacuum of space, release immense amounts of power among others.
From there is where I checked out of comics (late 80s/early 90s) and eventually she morphed into Captain Marvel as she is now.
I did check and somehow I’ve got a few Ms Marvel’s. Not sure where this one came from, but it was in a box that got damaged in a flood a number of years back. Ms Marvel #17 from May 1978.
Also to add: I “know” Captain Marvel more as Monica Rambeau than either Mar-Vell or Carol when she was with the Avengers. For Carol I know her as Binary.
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_caleb
Well-Known Member
I agree with the Superman comparisons and how overpowered heroes can make for less compelling superhero stories. The best part about most Marvel characters is that they are flawed and have weaknesses. This makes teamups so great!
This is why the comic book version of Captain Marvel has addiction issues and gets mentally manipulated all the time. They tried to give her clear flaws. With the MCU version, I think they’ve positioned her to represent a particular subset of the audience. I believe this is why these films are less popular with other audiences.
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Willmark
Well-Known Member
In a lot of ways she’s Rey from Star Wars in regard to that. Rey doesn’t fail at anything. Make it sort of boring.
Consider the comic book version of Peter Parker. Him being Spider-Man isn’t what is compelling per se: it’s his FAILURES as Spider-Man and in his personal life that is compelling.
Captain Marvel? Each draws their own conclusions but to me she is not really that interesting as a character. Now, her as Binary dealing with the lost of her former life, memories and powers, despite being now really powered up? That was good writing.
Casper Gutman
Well-Known Member
I mean, trying to keep it vague here, but the entire plot of this film is about Captain Marvel's flaws and how her vast powers can be a problem.
The most flawless characters in the MCU are Cap and Black Panther.
I don't like comics Captain Marvel much at all, but the MCU version works a lot better.
_caleb
Well-Known Member
Maybe that’s where they’re headed with her? (Assuming they get that far with her storyline).
Casper Gutman
Well-Known Member
Yeah, getting to tortured, PTSD Captain Marvel requires a pretty big character that isn't in the MCU yet - and rewriting it to exclude that character, to make something else the source of Marvel's trauma, creates a lot of issues when you get around to introducing that character (who ultimately is more important then Marvel).
Willmark
Well-Known Member
The mid 2010s version of Captain Marvel was… interesting. I’ll leave at that but to say that Marvel should not be surprised how a number of those storylines were received.
Obviously you (likely) now about what I’m talking about and it cannot be discussed here.
Same with the Lady Thor storylines from the same timeframe.
Note I’m not coming at this from a Comicsgate frame of mind; rather I saw the writing and was like no thanks.
Willmark
Well-Known Member
I’m not sure how they would do that. Also I don’t see them doing another movie after this with her; box office numbers are likely going to quash anymore with Captain Marvel.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
Solid enough for the worst flop in marvel history
Box Office Bomb: ‘The Marvels’ Opening to $47M-$52M in New Low for Marvel Studios
The movie's performance fuels the theory that superhero fatigue is a real thing if a pic doesn't deliver on every front.
www.hollywoodreporter.com
Casper Gutman
Well-Known Member
Lady Thor was pretty great, but Danvers never really got a great run (the Claremont stuff was probably the best). I doubt Danvers headlines another film, but I’m certain she’ll show up, especially when she’s needed for that other character.
I just hope the universal acclaim for Ms Marvel, even in bad reviews, convinces them to follow up on her story in The Marvels.