Canon sales decline continues

[wdwmagic]

When are they going to wake up and actually compete with Sony innovation.

http://www.canonrumors.com/canon-releases-q3-2015-results/

TOKYO, Oct 27 (Reuters) – Japan’s Canon Inc said quarterly operating profit fell by a fifth as demand for digital cameras slumped and it spent more on developing new businesses, but it nudged up its full-year earnings estimates on a sharply weaker yen.

The consumer shift to smartphones for casual photo taking has pummelled demand for compact cameras, while the growing popularity of lighter mirrorless cameras has taken away market share from higher margin single-lens reflex cameras.

 

[NowInc]

Canon and Nikon both suffer from brand arrogance. I LOVE my brand (nikon) but I would be naive to believe they (and canon) aren't both WAY behind on innovation and instead decided to lock themselves into another megapixel war. Sony (who makes the sensors for Nikon, oddly enough) have been going for the jugular in the DSLR market with constant updates to their offerings, each time getting closer and closer to the sweet spot that causes people to jump ship to their products.

 

[wdwmagic]

Canon and Nikon both suffer from brand arrogance. I LOVE my brand (nikon) but I would be naive to believe they (and canon) are both WAY behind on innovation and instead decided to lock themselves into another megapixel war. Sony (who makes the sensors for Nikon, oddly enough) have been going for the jugular in the DSLR market with constant updates to their offerings, each time getting closer and closer to the sweet spot that causes people to jump ship to their products.

That about sums it up. I wonder how many Nikon and Canon users would jump ship if they weren't so invested in lenses. I think that very reason is how Canon and Nikon execs can sleep at night.

 

[afb28]

I jumped from Canon to Nikon because Canon is just stuck in mud. Sony are definitely the innovators but their lens lineup just won't work for me. So with Nikon I get the Sony sensor and a great lens line up (granted Sony still has better noise software for it to produce what it does in the 25,000 and up range compared to what Nikon is getting from those same sensors). I also love the form factor of a full DSLR. I can't imagine a 70-200 2.8 on a mirrorless form factor.

 

[wdwmagic]

I jumped from Canon to Nikon because Canon is just stuck in mud. Sony are definitely the innovators but their lens lineup just won't work for me. So with Nikon I get the Sony sensor and a great lens line up (granted Sony still has better noise software for it to produce what it does in the 25,000 and up range compared to what Nikon is getting from those same sensors). I also love the form factor of a full DSLR. I can't imagine a 70-200 2.8 on a mirrorless form factor.

Would that change for you if Sony were to bring out a full size DSLR type body in its mirrorless range?

 

[afb28]

Would that change for you if Sony were to bring out a full size DSLR type body in its mirrorless range?

If they had a lens line up to compete with Nikon then yes. Or if Sigma continued to expand into that amount that'd be fine too.

I honestly wanted to go Sony before getting the D750, but just wasn't satisfied with the lenses to switch.

 

[KeithVH]

At this point in time, I think the line has been drawn for the majority of people who just buy a camera. That segment would now seem to be a greater proportion of the total buying population compared to those who buy into a system. Admittedly, systems seemed to be more prevalent with film bodies. To me, it's still more about just a body or a lens. But I can see how that is getting left in the dust except for a very, very minor (yet vocal) minority. Oh well.

 

[sporadic]

For lightweight travel, I love my Fuji X-T1 based kit. Only thing holding me back was sports, but I don't shoot it anymore. Just sold my 7D and 70-200 f/2.8 IS II. No regrets! Had high hopes for Canon's EOS-M system so I could justify two bodies and re-purpose glass, but they just dragged their feet too long.

 

[fractal]

I've been using mirrorless since 2011 when I purchased a Sony NEX-3 (now use NEX-7). Previous to that I had a Canon Rebel. I switched to mirrorless because the Canon stayed on the shelf - was just a pain to lug around. The Canon was used for taking family pictures and not for "the art of photography". I'm not a professional (although somebody recently asked me to do portraits for them ) but I now love photography. I'm not sure if that's due to going mirrorless or stage of life. I love using an EVF and I love manually focusing using focus peaking and magnification and I shoot mostly in manual. I view DSLRs more as a tool to "get the shot" - very efficient, dependable and does the hard work for you vs. my camera as a tool to be more immersed in the process of photography ( like driving a stick-shift).

Recently I was at a wedding (my Goddaughter) and i brought along my NEX-7 and a small bag of primes. Sitting near the front I had the opportunity to watch the photographers up close. They both used Canon DX1 and I was impressed with how those cameras functioned (despite the enormous size). Without being a nuisance I took some shots using an Olympus 100mm 2.8 but I noticed the one photographer eyeing me up. Outside waiting for the couple to come out, I was standing next to photographer - at this point I had put on my Rokinon 8mm.
"Nice set-up" he said to me. "Very impressed and excited to see somebody shooting primes manually; don't see enough of that." He went on to tell me he loves the mirrorless format and has been close to selling his Canon for an Sony A7S (he also does astrophotography). We went on to discussing photography and cameras until the happy couple arrived. By the way, here's the picture I got...

It's seems to me that mirrorless originally appealed to somebody like me - High Image Quality in a small package for Family, vacation, etc. Slowly the versatility of the system and advances in AF and moving into Full Frame has caught the attention of Pros. It also seems, so far Canon has been unwilling to risk cannibalizing it's own products ( as Steve Jobs would say "if you don't, somebody else will) and now finds itself behind. Canon and Nikon still rule the Sports/Wildlife and Wedding Pro Photographer segment and maybe Sony is not interested in going after that, but once the technology is there you can bet mirrorless will be also.

 

[fractal]

For lightweight travel, I love my Fuji X-T1 based kit. Only thing holding me back was sports, but I don't shoot it anymore. Just sold my 7D and 70-200 f/2.8 IS II. No regrets! Had high hopes for Canon's EOS-M system so I could justify two bodies and re-purpose glass, but they just dragged their feet too long.

Fuji just came out saying their X-mount cameras sellling stronger than expected - they also bumped up their growth estimates. I'm fascinated by Fuji because of the lenses - just not sure about staying with APS-C or going FF.

 

[wdwmagic]

By the way, here's the picture I got...

Thats a great shot! You hit the sweet spot between keeping the faces sharp, and giving a hint of motion with the confetti and arms. Really well done.

 

[Jahona]

That about sums it up. I wonder how many Nikon and Canon users would jump ship if they weren't so invested in lenses. I think that very reason is how Canon and Nikon execs can sleep at night.

That's the hardest part of any camera system. I've been using Nikon digital for over a decade. While lenses have a decent resale value it's tough to jump ship. I had to buy several new lenses just going from APS-C to Full Frame.

 

[thomas998]

That about sums it up. I wonder how many Nikon and Canon users would jump ship if they weren't so invested in lenses. I think that very reason is how Canon and Nikon execs can sleep at night.

I don't mind focusing manually... so jumping from Nikon to Sony is easy for me... But while I've got a couple of mirrorless Sony cameras I can't completely jump to them because Sony still hasn't fixed their flash system to my satisfaction, nor have they gotten a EVF that lets me focus manually as well as I can using an optical viewfinder... Which is sad because I would like to jump completely because the mirrorless is smaller and lighter.... but Sony never seems willing to stop the innovation for innovation's sake and actually completely perfect their product (their flash system is utter crap).

 

[htx]

I think Sony is doing a great job and they are finally putting some major pressure on Canon and Nikon to step up their games. Running a photography business on the side, I just don't see it as a replacement just yet; but it is getting closer. Once they get the battery life to at least 900 shots, a better EVF and more lens choices I will give them more of a thought.

Another thing, the smaller size is nice for some but not for others. I mainly shoot primes so I always carry multiple lenses with me. Which means I will need to bring a bag anyway so the weight doesn't bother me. I think for the average consumer, the mirrorless is quickly becoming the new DSLR and already making a big impression on the professional world.

BTW, great shot fractal.

 

[fractal]

looks like something may be stirring at Canon...

http://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/can...ull-frame-mirrorless-are-coming-in-12-months/

 

[wdwmagic]

looks like something may be stirring at Canon...

http://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/can...ull-frame-mirrorless-are-coming-in-12-months/

I'm sure they know they need to go mirrorless, but Sony has had such a head start, and Canon are already behind in the sensor technology, I think it is going to be a real struggle. And let's not forget, at the rate Sony keep bringing out new gear, in 12 months we'll be on the A7 MK 3's or perhaps A9, that will take things even further.

 

[thomas998]

I'm sure they know they need to go mirrorless, but Sony has had such a head start, and Canon are already behind in the sensor technology, I think it is going to be a real struggle. And let's not forget, at the rate Sony keep bringing out new gear, in 12 months we'll be on the A7 MK 3's or perhaps A9, that will take things even further.

Sony has one advantage over Nikon and Canon when going mirrorless... Nikon and Canon have a large loyal base and they can't just jump to a new lens mount without upsetting that base. Sony with no real base was able to just create a new lens mount without worrying about upsetting old customers. If Canon or Nikon build mirrorless odds are it will use the same mount as their current line of DSLRs which of course will mean it can't be as compact as the Sony... So taking away the size advantage why will they go mirrorless?

 

[Jahona]

Sony has one advantage over Nikon and Canon when going mirrorless... Nikon and Canon have a large loyal base and they can't just jump to a new lens mount without upsetting that base. Sony with no real base was able to just create a new lens mount without worrying about upsetting old customers. If Canon or Nikon build mirrorless odds are it will use the same mount as their current line of DSLRs which of course will mean it can't be as compact as the Sony... So taking away the size advantage why will they go mirrorless?

Here is the thing, Nikon has had a mirrorless camera on the market for a while now. Their Nikon 1 series have been ok but still lag behind compared to Sony and even Fujifilm. I really don't think the big two care to innovate at the moment, giving others a time to shine.

 

[thomas998]

Here is the thing, Nikon has had a mirrorless camera on the market for a while now. Their Nikon 1 series have been ok but still lag behind compared to Sony and even Fujifilm. I really don't think the big two care to innovate at the moment, giving others a time to shine.

Yes, Nikon has their 1 series, but it seems like a half assed attempt at mirrorless that was crippled by the concern that it might cannibalize the DSLR market... I mean for god's sake it doesn't even have a APS-C size sensor... It reminds me of the Nikon version of the old APS film cameras that were just after thoughts.

 

[Jahona]

Yes, Nikon has their 1 series, but it seems like a half assed attempt at mirrorless that was crippled by the concern that it might cannibalize the DSLR market... I mean for god's sake it doesn't even have a APS-C size sensor... It reminds me of the Nikon version of the old APS film cameras that were just after thoughts.

I totally forgot about that argument they made when they released the line. The sensor is better than most point and shoots but pales in comparison to any 4/3s sensor or above.