Canon sales decline continues

[networkpro]

I'm admittedly a hack when it comes to photography, I just require my camera to be better than I am so that's why I picked up a SL1. Decent size and weight coming from a 3Ti and all the lenses are interchangeable with it.

 

[wdwmagic]

Yes, Nikon has their 1 series, but it seems like a half assed attempt at mirrorless that was crippled by the concern that it might cannibalize the DSLR market... I mean for god's sake it doesn't even have a APS-C size sensor... It reminds me of the Nikon version of the old APS film cameras that were just after thoughts.

I almost think Canon and Nikon thought mirrorless was in the same category as those superzoom point and shoots. I.e. just filling the gap between compact cameras and DSLRs.

 

[PhotoDave219]

I've been using mirrorless since 2011 when I purchased a Sony NEX-3 (now use NEX-7). Previous to that I had a Canon Rebel. I switched to mirrorless because the Canon stayed on the shelf - was just a pain to lug around. The Canon was used for taking family pictures and not for "the art of photography". I'm not a professional (although somebody recently asked me to do portraits for them ) but I now love photography. I'm not sure if that's due to going mirrorless or stage of life. I love using an EVF and I love manually focusing using focus peaking and magnification and I shoot mostly in manual. I view DSLRs more as a tool to "get the shot" - very efficient, dependable and does the hard work for you vs. my camera as a tool to be more immersed in the process of photography ( like driving a stick-shift).

Recently I was at a wedding (my Goddaughter) and i brought along my NEX-7 and a small bag of primes. Sitting near the front I had the opportunity to watch the photographers up close. They both used Canon DX1 and I was impressed with how those cameras functioned (despite the enormous size). Without being a nuisance I took some shots using an Olympus 100mm 2.8 but I noticed the one photographer eyeing me up. Outside waiting for the couple to come out, I was standing next to photographer - at this point I had put on my Rokinon 8mm.
"Nice set-up" he said to me. "Very impressed and excited to see somebody shooting primes manually; don't see enough of that." He went on to tell me he loves the mirrorless format and has been close to selling his Canon for an Sony A7S (he also does astrophotography). We went on to discussing photography and cameras until the happy couple arrived. By the way, here's the picture I got...

It's seems to me that mirrorless originally appealed to somebody like me - High Image Quality in a small package for Family, vacation, etc. Slowly the versatility of the system and advances in AF and moving into Full Frame has caught the attention of Pros. It also seems, so far Canon has been unwilling to risk cannibalizing it's own products ( as Steve Jobs would say "if you don't, somebody else will) and now finds itself behind. Canon and Nikon still rule the Sports/Wildlife and Wedding Pro Photographer segment and maybe Sony is not interested in going after that, but once the technology is there you can bet mirrorless will be also.

Killer wedding frame. Nicely done.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Canon/Nikon rule the professional market but considering there are fewer and fewer of those anymore, they really need to work with straight innovation. Yes, the new nikon 200-500/5.6 is something I have my eye on for some very specific things. But you get outside of newspapers/sports/photojournalism, Sony is gaining serious ground.

I mean yeah, i would love essentially a dSLR with 10 fps, the ISO/image quality of the Fuji X series and built in wifi but I'm not gonna drop an insane amount of money on it.

Unless both companies wake up, its going to be Sony vs Fuji.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Fuji just came out saying their X-mount cameras sellling stronger than expected - they also bumped up their growth estimates. I'm fascinated by Fuji because of the lenses - just not sure about staying with APS-C or going FF.

You'll want to go full frame. There's a giant difference IMO.

Althought APS-C weighs a lot less....

 

[afb28]

You'll want to go full frame. There's a giant difference IMO.

Althought APS-C weighs a lot less....

Can't speak for Fuji but my D750 is lighter than my 7D.

 

[KeithVH]

So. I've been doing a lot of looking and am no closer to a decision about moving away from a DSLR. My deep concerns are around lack of true macro, decent wide angle (< 24mm), faster lenses, and weather sealing. I've got a workaround for a flash system with remotes.

I'd appreciate those who have made the jump to mirrorless whether you faced any of the same concerns and how you got around them.

 

[fractal]

So. I've been doing a lot of looking and am no closer to a decision about moving away from a DSLR. My deep concerns are around lack of true macro, decent wide angle (< 24mm), faster lenses, and weather sealing. I've got a workaround for a flash system with remotes.

I'd appreciate those who have made the jump to mirrorless whether you faced any of the same concerns and how you got around them.

Talking Full-frame-
I believe the Sony FE 90mm 2.8 Macro is the sharpest lens DXO has ever tested. Sony FE 16-35mm f/4 for wide angle. Sony Zeiss 35mm 1.4 for fast AF lens. Samyang/Rokinon has 1.4 manual emount lenses. Just weather resistant so far on the A7(s)(r)ii lineup.

APS-C E-mount
The Zeiss Touit 50mm 2.8 macro is a superb lens, Sony E 10-18 f/4 is good as is the Rokinon 12mm f/2. I use an adopted Minolta Rokkor 50mm 1.4 but no native lens faster than 1.8 ( Fuji does have f/1.4 and I believe a native 1.2 for their X-mount cameras) and you can also go the manual focus route with Samyang/Rokinon 1.4's. So far no weather sealing for Sony APS-C (although my magnesium bodied NEX-7 has been through hell and still works perfect after 150,000+ actuations).

Sony should soon be announcing a series of new lenses for E(aps-c) and FE (ff emount). Rumored to be 2.8 zooms and a few fast (1.4) primes.

If you are looking APS-C with no desire to move FF, the Fuji X cameras and lenses at this point are more complete than Sony's APS-C mirrorless. Maybe the Fuji users here can give a rundown.

 

[sporadic]

So. I've been doing a lot of looking and am no closer to a decision about moving away from a DSLR. My deep concerns are around lack of true macro, decent wide angle (< 24mm), faster lenses, and weather sealing. I've got a workaround for a flash system with remotes.

I'd appreciate those who have made the jump to mirrorless whether you faced any of the same concerns and how you got around them.

I jumped from a Canon 7D to a Fuji X-T1, mainly due to wanting a lighter travel kit. I'm not a working photographer however, just a hobbyist. The X-T1 is advertised as being weather sealed, but I've yet to test it. They only have a few weather sealed lenses on the market though (noted with WR). I haven't tried macro on the X-T1 yet, but any nice macro glass should be adaptable if you focus manually. Fuji does have a 120 f/2.8 macro on their roadmap for next year however. The 18-55 kit lens that you can get with the X-T1 is actually a very nice lens, f/2.8 - f/4 with IS and very sharp. The build quality it is great on it. For wide primes, they have a 23/1.4, 18/f2, 16/f1.4, and 14/f2.8. They also have a 10-24 F/4. Their fastest lens would be the 56 f/1.2. These are all just Fuji offerings as well. There's also Zeiss glass in the X mount and other 3rd party options like the Samyang / Rokinon manual primes. As you've noticed, the flash thing is easy to get around if working manual. I was using my YN-622C triggers w/ the Fuji setup and cheapo manual speedlights until recently.

My current kit is the X-T1 with the 18-55, 30 f/1.4, 10-24 f/4 and a bunch of random adapted lenses in M42 and FD mounts. The Samyang / Rokinon 12 f/2 is on my list and possibly the 100-400 when it releases. I miss my 7D and 70-200 2.8 IS II for sports, but that's about it. It was getting too short anyways with the kids progressing to larger fields. You can checkout Fuji's lens roadmap here - http://www.fujifilm.com/products/digital_cameras/xf_lens/roadmap/

For a size comparison between the 7D + 35 f/1.4 and X-T1 + 35 f/1.4, check this out - http://camerasize.com/compact/#154.484,520.408,ha,t. That was my biggest reason to switch. I was debating a 6D, but anything other than the 50/1.4 starts to get too big again.

If I had any gripes on the X-T1, it would be the aperture rings on the XF lenses are too easy to bump. I've found myself many times bumped down a couple of clicks if not paying attention. Overall though, I love it. No regrets as a hobbyist. If was a sports or wedding photographer though? I'd wan't my Canon gear back! Just feel I can work faster / more efficiently on a full DSLR. Be it ergonomics or muscle memory, but that's just me.

 

[KeithVH]

Thanks to both fractal and sporadic. I hadn't really looked at the Fuji that much - was totally unaware of the roadmap. I just now need to remove my somewhat unreasoning attachment to my L glass. And convince DW of some new expenses . . .

 

[fractal]

Thanks to both fractal and sporadic. I hadn't really looked at the Fuji that much - was totally unaware of the roadmap. I just now need to remove my somewhat unreasoning attachment to my L glass. And convince DW of some new expenses . . .

Not necessarily,

http://www.slrlounge.com/sony-a7r-ii-impressive-focusing-ability-canon-lenses/

 

[NowInc]

Interesting to note, and in the category of "showing up late to the party", Nikon has filed patents for Mirrorless APS-C and Full Frame bodies this year, which in theory indicates a formal announcement of their entry into this realm in 2016. It is EASIER for them than it is for canon, because Sony makes the sensors for Nikon already, so I am sure they will be using them on this line as well.

 

[thomas998]

Interesting to note, and in the category of "showing up late to the party", Nikon has filed patents for Mirrorless APS-C and Full Frame bodies this year, which in theory indicates a formal announcement of their entry into this realm in 2016. It is EASIER for them than it is for canon, because Sony makes the sensors for Nikon already, so I am sure they will be using them on this line as well.

I don't think making or not making the sensor is much of an issue in going to a mirrorless camera at this point. Because both Canon and Nikon have live view on their existing DSLRs there isn't much holding either one back from making a mirrorless camera other than a desire to enter the field. Only question thing I'm concerned about is that both Nikon and Canon are likely to stick to their existing to film distance so that existing lenses will work with the new mirrorless line... which is great in terms of continuity... but the biggest reason I have a Sony mirrorless is that they didn't keep their old to film distance so it allowed me a decent camera that I could use all my lenses on from old range finders on up....

 

[sporadic]

Only question thing I'm concerned about is that both Nikon and Canon are likely to stick to their existing ****** to film distance so that existing lenses will work with the new mirrorless line... which is great in terms of continuity... but the biggest reason I have a Sony mirrorless is that they didn't keep their old ****** to film distance so it allowed me a decent camera that I could use all my lenses on from old range finders on up....

No experience with Nikon, but Canon's gonna really need to suck it up and come out with some glass that's fitting from both a form factor and performance perspective if they want to compete in the mirrorless market. They're missing the big picture if they think strapping on 2-3lbs of L glass to a full frame mirrorless is the answer. Unless it's in the form factor or their current DSLR's, which would be intriguing but not really competing with the mirrorless market. More like replacing their SLR segment. Putting something like the X-T1's EVF in a 7D would be a pretty sweet workhorse.

 

[Clamman73]

I jumped from a Canon 7D to a Fuji X-T1, mainly due to wanting a lighter travel kit. I'm not a working photographer however, just a hobbyist. The X-T1 is advertised as being weather sealed, but I've yet to test it. They only have a few weather sealed lenses on the market though (noted with WR). I haven't tried macro on the X-T1 yet, but any nice macro glass should be adaptable if you focus manually. Fuji does have a 120 f/2.8 macro on their roadmap for next year however. The 18-55 kit lens that you can get with the X-T1 is actually a very nice lens, f/2.8 - f/4 with IS and very sharp. The build quality it is great on it. For wide primes, they have a 23/1.4, 18/f2, 16/f1.4, and 14/f2.8. They also have a 10-24 F/4. Their fastest lens would be the 56 f/1.2. These are all just Fuji offerings as well. There's also Zeiss glass in the X mount and other 3rd party options like the Samyang / Rokinon manual primes. As you've noticed, the flash thing is easy to get around if working manual. I was using my YN-622C triggers w/ the Fuji setup and cheapo manual speedlights until recently.

My current kit is the X-T1 with the 18-55, 30 f/1.4, 10-24 f/4 and a bunch of random adapted lenses in M42 and FD mounts. The Samyang / Rokinon 12 f/2 is on my list and possibly the 100-400 when it releases. I miss my 7D and 70-200 2.8 IS II for sports, but that's about it. It was getting too short anyways with the kids progressing to larger fields. You can checkout Fuji's lens roadmap here - http://www.fujifilm.com/products/digital_cameras/xf_lens/roadmap/

For a size comparison between the 7D + 35 f/1.4 and X-T1 + 35 f/1.4, check this out - http://camerasize.com/compact/#154.484,520.408,ha,t. That was my biggest reason to switch. I was debating a 6D, but anything other than the 50/1.4 starts to get too big again.

If I had any gripes on the X-T1, it would be the aperture rings on the XF lenses are too easy to bump. I've found myself many times bumped down a couple of clicks if not paying attention. Overall though, I love it. No regrets as a hobbyist. If was a sports or wedding photographer though? I'd wan't my Canon gear back! Just feel I can work faster / more efficiently on a full DSLR. Be it ergonomics or muscle memory, but that's just me.

I have the Rokinon 8mm 2.8 coming today for my XT-10...I'll try to get a pic or two sometime on the weekend that you can see how it looks.

 

[thomas998]

I don't think making or not making the sensor is much of an issue in going to a mirrorless camera at this point. Because both Canon and Nikon have live view on their existing DSLRs there isn't much holding either one back from making a mirrorless camera other than a desire to enter the field. Only question thing I'm concerned about is that both Nikon and Canon are likely to stick to their existing ****** to film distance so that existing lenses will work with the new mirrorless line... which is great in terms of continuity... but the biggest reason I have a Sony mirrorless is that they didn't keep their old ****** to film distance so it allowed me a decent camera that I could use all my lenses on from old range finders on up....

Okay... can someone explain why the word f.lange is getting the ****** treatment? Not a word I was never aware had any hidden meaning beyond what some pipefitter might come up with.

 

[maxairmike]

Probably a UK slang term unfamiliar to most of us across the pond, as the owner is from the UK. I was wondering what word pertaining to cameras could possibly be a naughty word.

 

[thomas998]

No experience with Nikon, but Canon's gonna really need to suck it up and come out with some glass that's fitting from both a form factor and performance perspective if they want to compete in the mirrorless market. They're missing the big picture if they think strapping on 2-3lbs of L glass to a full frame mirrorless is the answer. Unless it's in the form factor or their current DSLR's, which would be intriguing but not really competing with the mirrorless market. More like replacing their SLR segment. Putting something like the X-T1's EVF in a 7D would be a pretty sweet workhorse.

Frankly my dream mirrorless from Nikon would be the same size as their current DSLR line with the only difference being a removable adapter between the camera body and the lens so I could use my Nikon glass with all its capability or pull out the adapter and drop in another to use some other maker's lens. My biggest gripe with mirrorless as a whole is the size. If I had tiny little hands it wouldn't matter, but if you have big hands some of the mirrorless cameras just feel like you're holding a kids toy.

 

[wdwmagic]

Okay... can someone explain why the word f.lange is getting the ****** treatment? Not a word I was never aware had any hidden meaning beyond what some pipefitter might come up with.

Probably a UK slang term unfamiliar to most of us across the pond, as the owner is from the UK. I was wondering what word pertaining to cameras could possibly be a naughty word.

Yep that's it. Sorry about that.

 

[thomas998]

Yep that's it. Sorry about that.

Okay... Now I have to ask... what does it mean in the UK?