DDT was first synthesized in 1874 as an insecticide to kill mosquitoes and prevent the spread of mosquito born illnesses. It was banned by the EPA in 1972.
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Can you swim on the beaches of the Seven Seas Lagoon?
- Thread starter Walt Disney1955
- Start date
DDT was first synthesized in 1874 as an insecticide to kill mosquitoes and prevent the spread of mosquito born illnesses. It was banned by the EPA in 1972.
1.25 million
incorrect. EPA banned the use of DDT in U.S. after December 1972 - the order was issued in June of that year. Cotton, peanut and soybean farms accounted for nearly the entire domestic use of the pesticide. Farmers were already being instructed in the use of methyl parathion at the time.
WDW would have been heavily fined if caught using DDT after December 1972.
Btw, Malathion and Propoxur, used to kill bedbugs, were banned in 1996. Propoxur is a known human carcinogen. The reason bed bugs are back is primarily due to increased levels of travel and growing resistance in wild bed bug populations to the pesticides that are still allowed by the government.
Yes it has a man made canal that connect to Bay Lake, but the reality is most every canal around WDW is man made... So what does that have to do with anything. Bay Lake and Seven Seas Lagoon are not the same thing any more than the Pacific and Atlantic oceans are the same simply because we built the Panama Canal to connect them, it doesn't change what those oceans are anymore than this canal changes what Seven Seas Lagoon is - a man made lake.
Majority of the canals in Florida are man made. For flood control and drainage. And gators populate them. As they do rivers, the Intercoastal, golf course water hazards and just about every body of water in Florida, whether it's natural or man made. But that's not why swimming was prohibited in the Lagoon.
Yes, alligators are everywhere in Florida today. But that wasn't the case in the early 70's they were nearly extinct with little expectation that anyone in Florida would run into one. In fact when I was a kid and lived south of Florida in the 70's my cousins and I would go fishing in canals all the time. We didn't even think about alligators nor did anyone even tell us to be on the look out for them. I don't think that was because they were secretly hoping we would get eaten, rather I think it was because they were so rare you wouldn't even expect to see any. We were told to be on the look out for snakes and we would see snakes quite often... But for an alligator the only ones I can recall seeing as a kid in Florida were at an alligator farm when we went to the everglades.
Today they estimate over 5 million live in Florida. Safety is the reason they stopped the swimming in the Seven Seas Lagoon... You might hear people say it was because of boats, but that is just speculation. What isn't speculation is the fact that in the early 80's you could still swim in seven seas, I don't know the exact date that they stopped it but it is also a fact that in 1986 a visitor to Disney was attacked by an alligator. Also a fact that lakes across the country have allowed swimming in roped off areas of lakes where boating is allowed and still do... so what is the most likely reason Disney stopped swimming? I doubt they would ever say it was because of alligators because their lawyers would have told them not to give a reason like that when they were under threat of a lawsuit for a gator attack as it would imply that they might have known about the risk and fail to warn visitors. You can believe what you want, I'll believe what I want, and based on the known facts I believe the most likely reason they no longer allow swimming is the alligators as that is the only threat that has increased over time.
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Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
This whole thread is hilarious. You're opinions of a species that has been on this planet basically since the beginning of it's coming into being has me rolling on the floor with laughter. Kill them basically on the way into the WDW? Do they enter on World Drive or one of the other roads? Man made lake as opposed to natural? That's just gibberish! It's only water... if it makes one feel better just say that someone dug a hole and Bay Lake leaked into it. Now Bay Lake is big enough to have two names. Still the same water though. Seven Seas was not filled with Perrier® . Oh, well, doesn't matter to me because I can think of no reason to wander into a slimy, untreated body of water when they have about $40 billion worth of clean pools all over the place. If you went to water-ski, you probably took a wrong turn someplace and went to WDW instead.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Being man-made does not mean isolated. Nothing stops everything in Bay Lake from swimming into the Seven Seas Lagoon. The connection into the larger watershed is more than just a single canal to Bay Lake that you seem to think was once guarded by some sort of aquatic body border guard.
John park hopper
Well-Known Member
Many years ago 1977 we stayed at the Contemporary and you could swim; the hotel advertised the beaches, water skiing etc. since gators have been protected the population has grown. You can bet any body of water in FL may have gators; WDW is not exempt. Even on land gators can run as fast as a man for brief periods best to stay away.
I don't know where you get your info from, but you're way off base. There are estimated to be 1.25 million alligators in Florida, not over 5 million - that's the number nationwide. While numbers were severely diminished until hunting was banned in 1962 and gators were listed as endangered in 1967, alligators were present in Florida. I know because I've lived here since 1966. And we had a gator in the water hazard behind our home (lived on a golf course). Freddie roamed between the water hazard behind us and the small pond behind our neighbor's. Sadly, he was poached one night. And there were gators in the Everglades...saw them whenever we made trips out on airboats. Florida's population has exploded since the 1980s, pushing development into areas inhabited by gators and on the edges of the Everglades.
Swimming in the Lagoon was allowed in designated areas until it was banned in 1997-98, primarily due to an increase in the presence of the amoeba naegleria, which proliferates in warm aquatic bodies of water. The Lagoon is relatively shallow, only 14 feet deep (compared to Bay Lake at 35 feet). The water cannot be treated with chemicals sufficient to kill parasites without adversely affecting plants, fish, birds and other organisms in and around the Lagoon.
I've swam in Wakulla Springs since the 1970s. Lots of gators in the Wakulla River. Swimming area is roped and life guards are vigilant in keeping swimmers within the ropes area. Back in 1987, a snorkeler was killed by a gator when he swam outside the designated area and out into the river. 1st attack in the area, according to locals. There's been only 2 gator attacks at WDW since it opened in 1971, with sadly one fatality. State didn't close Wakulla Springs after the fatal attack in 1987. Disney didn't close swimming in the Lagoon after the 1986 attack. And by that time, the alligator population had reached nearly 1 million. In 1987, FWS announced the gator was fully recovered and removed it from the ESA. Population has reached its low point in the 1950s.
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Bingo. You have a 35 foot deep natural lake whose waters comingle via the water bridge with a 14 foot deep man made lake. Whose waters are polluted by runoff from bus depots, parking areas, and resorts. Then add to that heavy boat traffic and waste from those engines. Water quality in both bodies of water will be dramatically affected and provide breeding ground for parasites and algae.
KCheatle
Well-Known Member
I definitely agree with you on this. I think it's ridiculous that a private institution was forced to jeopardize it's property and decrease it's safety for the protection of alligators. Disney is one small blip on the radar of where alligators live. There is no reason it should have been prohibited from hunting the small population that came on its property for the overall safety of the people visiting, or at the very least it should have been allowed to trap and relocate the gators elsewhere.
Even with that, would I have gone in the water? Nope! Even the best trappers are bound to miss every once and awhile, and Florida is not the place to take a dip in murky water...
And, for the record, we do not wait to go in our backyard so that critters can wander and eat my garden at their leisure. We shoot them.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
How was Disney “forced to jeopardize it’s property and decrease it’s safety”? Alligators are relocated. Alligators don’t understand human concepts of property boundaries. Seven Seas Lagoon was built into the waterways they already lived within.
"Forced to jeopardize its property"? That's an utterly ridiculous statement. Nuisance gators are trapped and relocated or killed on a regular basis, and not just at WDW. You have a greater chance of being killed by a cow (average of 20 deaths a year, a dog (average of 28 deaths a year) than a gator (average of 1 death a year). Gators, as a keystone species, are a critical component of Florida's ecosystem. They create small ponds, known as alligator holes, which are vital sources of water and habitats for aquatic species during periods of prolonged drought. They are also vital in the restoration of the Everglades, as gators are biological indicators of restoration success. The American alligators is highly sensitive to changes in the hydrology, salinity, and productivity of its ecosystems; all are factors that are expected to change with Everglades restoration. Furthermore, the gator has limited the spread of invasive species north of the Everglades, especially Burmese pythons.
Disney, nor any other individual or entity, is not allowed to randomly shoot gators. FWC issues a limited number of gator hunting licenses each year. Reason? To make sure only the American alligator is hunted or trapped, as the American crocodile, a listed species, resides in Florida and anyone harassing, hunting, trapping or killing one would be subject to fines and possible jail under the ESA.
You say you shoot critters who wander into your backyard and eat your garden. Well, I sure hope those "critters" aren't those which have a designated hunting season and you've got a license to "hunt" them. Otherwise, you've broken the law, which as an attorney you should know.
From 1971 to 2016, there have been 2 reported attacks at WDW, with sadly one fatality. Why aren't you heaping criticism on the heads of those idiots who fed the gators from their Poly bungalow docks?
Yes, gator attacks on humans have increased the past few years. But that is due more to our behavior than theirs as we continue to encroach on their habitat.
deeevo
Well-Known Member
Spot on with this comment. Limiting hunting on gators in Florida has become a problem that no one wants to admit. I used to swim in lakes at night and never spotted a gator now those same lakes have 10 and 11 ft gators being pulled out of them every year.
That's incorrect. Hunting alligators was banned nationwide in 1962, the species was listed on the precursor to the ESA in 1967, was included on the ESA when enacted in 1973 and was removed from the ESA in 1987. ANY hunting of alligator between 1962 and 1987 were have been severely limited....and licensed by the FWS. Whatever hunting of alligators was happening in 1971 would have been illegal and in violation of federal law.
Alligators top speed on land is 11 mph. Humans average 25 mph. No contest.
Tom P.
Well-Known Member
Boy, this thread has gone off the rails. I hesitate to get too involved, but I just want to remind everyone that the increase in the alligator population (and related threat from them), the brain eating amoebas, and the lack of swimming in Seven Seas Lagoon are all related to Bob Iger's greed. Simple as that. Walt would have never allowed an amoeba on his property, that's for sure.
Nemo14
Well-Known Member
If only Iger hadn't made that No Shooting Amoebae policy! *sigh*
John park hopper
Well-Known Member
That may be true for someone who is in their prime, grandma / grandpa or
a small child better watch out