Can the East Coast Marvel Problem Really Be Solved? (Discussion)

[Cmdr_Crimson]

Those aren’t “substantial use” those, just “incidental”. I’m under the impression that the only characters they have the rights to are those featured in attractions, M&Gs, and locations (like restaurant themes). I don’t think they have the rights to use Iron Man, Thur, etc just because they are depicted in murals

One of their recent shirts says otherwise which ones Universal can use..And this one looks closer to their MCU versions..

 

[danlb_2000]

Honestly universal should want to get rid of its marvel rides, they are promoting the competitions properties! So they should be motivated. Universal should offer the marvels rights back in returned for funds to help them buy DC an remake marvel hero island into DC island, an make new DC movies as well. They'd be fools not to.

Universal licenses most of the IPs in it's parks. If they got rid of Marvel, they would likely have to pay considerably more, for something that is significantly less popular. Not a great business decision.

 

[Cmdr_Crimson]

So, how does the rights work for Marvel at Sea on The Disney Cruise Line if they are coming out of Port Canaveral?

 

[lazyboy97o]

So, how does the rights work for Marvel at Sea on The Disney Cruise Line if they are coming out of Port Canaveral?

International waters.

 

[MisterPenguin]

International waters.

But everywhere in the world is technically East of the Mississippi!!

 

[doctornick]

One of their recent shirts says otherwise which ones Universal can use..And this one looks closer to their MCU versions..

That’s still incidental use. I’m not sure it “proves” that Uni could use some of those characters for attractions, M&Gs, etc

 

[danlb_2000]

That’s still incidental use. I’m not sure it “proves” that Uni could use some of those characters for attractions, M&Gs, etc

All those characters are part of the Avengers, so Universal has the rights to use them. The MCU like appearance is a different question.

 

[doctornick]

All those characters are part of the Avengers, so Universal has the rights to use them. The MCU like appearance is a different question.

Perhaps, as we don't publicly have the additional contracts that detail specific characters.

But, just to be clear, the contract details regarding "families" is not what characters Universal has rights to, but what characters are prohibited from other parks. That is what the section of the publicly released contract indicates. It is clear that Iron Man, Thor, Black Panther, etc. are not allowed to be used East of the Mississippi at any other theme park. What is not clear - because the public contact doesn't indicate one way or the other - is whether Universal has the right to use those characters either or if basically not one can.

Edit: they can certainly use those characters for incidental use like murals. But that doesn't mean they have the rights to other characters for use in attractions or M&Gs.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Not sure 'merch' counts on the licensing restrictions. The contract is about theme park rides and the never-built Marvel Game Rooms. The restriction to theme park attractions is why Disney can show Avenger movies East of the Mississippi... film is not theme park attractions.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Perhaps, as we don't publicly have the additional contracts that detail specific characters.

But, just to be clear, the contract details regarding "families" is not what characters Universal has rights to, but what characters are prohibited from other parks. That is what the section of the publicly released contract indicates. It is clear that Iron Man, Thor, Black Panther, etc. are not allowed to be used East of the Mississippi at any other theme park. What is not clear - because the public contact doesn't indicate one way or the other - is whether Universal has the right to use those characters either or if basically not one can.

Edit: they can certainly use those characters for incidental use like murals. But that doesn't mean they have the rights to other characters for use in attractions or M&Gs.

Uni was in process of building an Iron Man ride. They clearly have access to the families for more attractions if they so wish.

Also, as I mentioned above, there is an addendum that spells things out more specifically, and so, I'm wasting my time arguing about what the original contract allows or disallows since it's now superseded by a document whose content we don't know.

 

[Model3 McQueen]

I don't understand the fascination and desire by WDW fans to have Marvel rides in WDW. You really want something like Ant Man and the Wasp Nano Battle in Animal Kingdom?

Disney fans who wish to try Disney Marvel rides can visit Disney California Adventure, Walt Disney Studios Paris and Hong Kong Disneyland. or EPCOT for Guardians of the Galaxy. There's plenty of options you can choose from starting next year.

Thank you for saying this! This obsession with IP advertisement has practically destroyed DCA, IMO.

 

[danlb_2000]

Perhaps, as we don't publicly have the additional contracts that detail specific characters.

But, just to be clear, the contract details regarding "families" is not what characters Universal has rights to, but what characters are prohibited from other parks. That is what the section of the publicly released contract indicates. It is clear that Iron Man, Thor, Black Panther, etc. are not allowed to be used East of the Mississippi at any other theme park. What is not clear - because the public contact doesn't indicate one way or the other - is whether Universal has the right to use those characters either or if basically not one can.

Edit: they can certainly use those characters for incidental use like murals. But that doesn't mean they have the rights to other characters for use in attractions or M&Gs.

I don't think there is any middle ground, they either have the exclusive rights to a character or they don't. If they have the rights, they can build an attraction using the character if they want to.

 

[marni1971]

Honestly universal should want to get rid of its marvel rides, they are promoting the competitions properties! So they should be motivated. Universal should offer the marvels rights back in returned for funds to help them buy DC an remake marvel hero island into DC island, an make new DC movies as well. They'd be fools not to.

I think Comcast know what they’re doing. They’re quite bright with this kind of thing.

 

[Trackmaster]

I don't think that there are as many die hard fans than you are imagining. There are a lot, true, but there are many of us that go to these attractions because the attractions are fun not because they are some special genre. I have never in my life seen one Marvel movie, comic book (graphic novel) or anything else connected to the Hulk or Spiderman and so on. If they are fun adventures then I ride them but I would never have decided to go to either Universal or Disney because they had a Marvel attraction. As much as I have enjoyed some of the Marvel based attractions I have enjoyed them without ever giving one single thought as to whether they are born of Marvel or not. I think that if the getting back those character was that important to Disney, than that would have been the deal breaker for them. As it is, it is easy money in the bank, doesn't change even one person from attending WDW instead of Universal and visa versa. Just my opinion.

I think that you're 100% wrong about there not being that many MCU fans. The movie series is the highest grossing series of all time. It actually doubles the closest competition. The MCU is at $18 billion, while the #2 series of all time is Star Wars at $9 billion. You're telling me that the highest grossing movies of all time wouldn't sell as rides? You're talking about Star Wars plus Harry Potter just to get to the MCU's drawing power.

 

[Trackmaster]

Honestly universal should want to get rid of its marvel rides, they are promoting the competitions properties! So they should be motivated. Universal should offer the marvels rights back in returned for funds to help them buy DC an remake marvel hero island into DC island, an make new DC movies as well. They'd be fools not to.

Two problems with this:

• They get people through the turn-styles. They're trying to run a business and get people in the park. Not destroy Disney's business. If anything, as long as Universal is investing and upgrading its parks, Disney's success is good for Universal. More international tourists, more domestic tourists, more Brazilian tour groups who figure they might as well check out SeaWorld and Universal while they're in town.
• The Marvel area at IOA doesn't really feel like the MCU at all. It features the comic book Spiderman with no MCU integration, not the Tom Holland Iron Man-esque Spiderman suit. It features that Incredible Hulk that's not that heavily featured in the MCU and the ride itself isn't really that immersively themed. And they throw in Dr. Doom and the X-Men too. So really you don't really feel like you're in the MCU when you go to IOA. It feels like the earlier standalone comics.

They signed a 99 year deal. As long as they keep the land up to a high quality, its theirs for a while.

 

[UNCgolf]

I think that you're 100% wrong about there not being that many MCU fans. The movie series is the highest grossing series of all time. It actually doubles the closest competition. The MCU is at $18 billion, while the #2 series of all time is Star Wars at $9 billion. You're telling me that the highest grossing movies of all time wouldn't sell as rides? You're talking about Star Wars plus Harry Potter just to get to the MCU's drawing power.

The MCU has more than twice as many movies as Star Wars and almost three times as many as Harry Potter, so that's not an equal comparison.

The MCU is absolutely hugely popular, of course. However, I don't think there are as many die-hard MCU fans as there are for properties like the aforementioned Star Wars and Harry Potter. Seems like there are tons of people who enjoy the movies but aren't totally engrossed in the universe -- which makes sense, I think, because the MCU isn't really escapist in the same way something like Star Wars and HP are. With the exception of a couple of movies (and this may change more going forward) it essentially takes place in our world. Star Wars is obviously completely different and while HP nominally takes place in our world, it's basically a whole separate secret world inside of ours.

 

[Trackmaster]

The MCU has more than twice as many movies as Star Wars and almost three times as many as Harry Potter, so that's not an equal comparison.

The MCU is absolutely hugely popular, of course. However, I don't think there are as many die-hard MCU fans as there are for properties like the aforementioned Star Wars and Harry Potter. Tons of people who enjoy the movies but aren't totally engrossed in the universe -- which makes sense, I think, because the MCU isn't really escapist in the same way something like Star Wars and HP are. With the exception of a couple of movies (and this may change more going forward) it essentially takes place in our world. Star Wars is obviously completely different and while HP nominally takes place in our world, it's basically a whole separate secret world inside of ours.

I mean I still think that the fact that the MCU has the #1 grossing movie of all time, many of the top 20 grossing movies of all time, and a ton of films speaks a lot for it. Arguably long running series make for better rides than shorter series, as people can get more invested in them and there's more source material to pull from. With something like Avatar, its like "well this ride is great and the land is awesome, but its kind of weird revisiting an older movie with no sequels that made a lot of money but everyone has more or less forgot about." Who knows, maybe Star Wars or HP would be the strongest IPs, but I still think that being a top 5 IP is enough to warrant an elaborate land and be something that's very hotly contested.

 

[UNCgolf]

I mean I still think that the fact that the MCU has the #1 grossing movie of all time, many of the top 20 grossing movies of all time, and a ton of films speaks a lot for it. Arguably long running series make for better rides than shorter series, as people can get more invested in them and there's more source material to pull from. With something like Avatar, its like "well this ride is great and the land is awesome, but its kind of weird revisiting an older movie with no sequels that made a lot of money but everyone has more or less forgot about." Who knows, maybe Star Wars or HP would be the strongest IPs, but I still think that being a top 5 IP is enough to warrant an elaborate land and be something that's very hotly contested.

Marvel is a massive IP and and incredibly valuable. I'm definitely not arguing against that. I think it's hard to create an elaborate land for the MCU since (as I said earlier) it's not really escapist, though. You'd probably just end up building a facsimile of New York based on where most of the MCU has taken place so far.

I think your point about Avatar may be where the MCU ends up, at least to an extent. It's really just the 4 Avengers films, Captain Marvel, Black Panther, and Spider-Man that are among the highest grossing films ever, and Captain Marvel and Black Panther had some additional social factors helping push up their totals. Spider-Man is the most valuable individual property in comics by far (and Universal already has a ride for him), and the original MCU Avengers team is basically finished.

The original non-MCU Spider-Man movies (at least the first two) were massive successes, and yet they've basically been forgotten/replaced for any new audience, just as an example of what I could see happening with the MCU down the road.

 

[danlb_2000]

Two problems with this:

• They get people through the turn-styles. They're trying to run a business and get people in the park. Not destroy Disney's business. If anything, as long as Universal is investing and upgrading its parks, Disney's success is good for Universal. More international tourists, more domestic tourists, more Brazilian tour groups who figure they might as well check out SeaWorld and Universal while they're in town.
• The Marvel area at IOA doesn't really feel like the MCU at all. It features the comic book Spiderman with no MCU integration, not the Tom Holland Iron Man-esque Spiderman suit. It features that Incredible Hulk that's not that heavily featured in the MCU and the ride itself isn't really that immersively themed. And they throw in Dr. Doom and the X-Men too. So really you don't really feel like you're in the MCU when you go to IOA. It feels like the earlier standalone comics.

They signed a 99 year deal. As long as they keep the land up to a high quality, its theirs for a while.

The deal has no end date, 99 years or otherwise.

 

[Walter Elias Disney]

International waters.

Our Disney Cruise Line's ships are officially registered with the Bahamas.