Can disney expand the Walt Disney World Monorial?

[KingStefan]

...It's a cool system, but I'd also hate to see it at any of the themed resorts. The monorail is fairly unobtrusive at the Poly and GF, but can you imagine some futuristic pod system coming up to the Wilderness Lodge? :hurl:

It would just ruin the theming...

And the busses fit right in with the theming, I suppose.

Look, the pods wouldn't ruin the theming any more than those stupid busses do, and besides, you could put the pod load stations off to the side and hide them from the resort with some theming elements.

You could even plan a "transition" area, where you would leave the world of state-of-the-art transportation and enter the world of Wilderness. How magical would that be? More magical than busses, I say.

 

[wdwmemories]

My personal take is that it is unlikely we will see anything (monorails, pods, etc.) in the near future. Most people won't plan a trip to WDW to see a new public transport, but they will to see a new show or attraction...

 

[wolf359]

I also think the way Walt Disney World has become more and more decentralized has played a big part in the lack of monorail expansion.

When the resort was originally designed, the TTC was considered a major hub of activity, serving as the main entrance, parking lot, and transportation hub. The dual tracks around the lagoon were enough for what they'd planned at the time, and from the beginning there would have only been one additional monorail, traveling from the downtown central hub to the TTC.

That extension was kept in the plan when EPCOT the city became EPCOT Center, since it made a lot of sense at the time to provide transportation from the only resorts on property to EPCOT Center.

But after EPCOT Center, Walt Disney World embarked on a completely new master plan that no longer followed the original 60s-70s plan, and significantly expanded, and greatly decentralized the entire property. The TTC is no longer the main hub or primary entrance to WDW. No longer are the majority of resorts (or attractions) focused in the Magic Kingdom area, and trying to interconnect a vast system of monorails circumnavigating the entire property all the way back to the TTC, which is now the most distant corner of WDW property doesn't completely make sense.

Now, I'm sure they could have tried to add more transportation hubs as the entire property expanded, but I really don't think having even more monorails going to and from all of the parks and deluxe resorts would have actually made getting from place to place any faster than it is now with buses.

 

[glendroid]

wel....

why dont they charge non resort guest to use it like TDR

 

[JohnWeckwerth]

Originally all the resorts were suppose to be connected by monorail or ferry, but that was when the resorts were to circle Seven Seas Lagoon. When WDW saw rapid expansion in the 90's that idea was tossed aside along with the idea that guest transportation should never be mundain like busses. Walt created WDW to keep the ordinary out. Monorail or pod doesn't really matter. Walt belived in progress, and whatever new technology was available he would use. All that needs to be done now is to have someone in charge who has Walt's vision.

 

[shmmrname]

It CAN happen, but it WON'T... It just doesn't make sense for financial reasons, let alone the amount of planning/construction that it would take from all of Disney's other interests. It'd be nice, but essentially it's not a needed improvement.

 

[Sassagoula-Rvr]

Alright I give up, what makes the monorail beam so expensive to build? It is just prefabricated concrete beams right? Granted there is many electrical components but....I mean one time I heard an estimate of over 1.5 million a mile. That seemed ridiculous to me.

 

[Space Mountain]

Magnets, wheels, elecricity, transfers, hold points, proximity switches, downtime, labor, concrete, construction costs, technogical upgrades, etc etc....money adds up quickly..

 

[Uncle Lupe]

That's about the same cost to build a mile of four lane highway. A new loop only needs to hit Animal Kingdom, DHS and the TTC.

Maybe they could build a new steam train line to connect the lower half of the property AK, DHS and the value resorts

 

[unkadug]

That's about the same cost to build a mile of four lane highway. A new loop only needs to hit Animal Kingdom, DHS and the TTC.

Maybe they could build a new steam train line to connect the lower half of the property AK, DHS and the value resorts

That would be cool, too! :wave::sohappy:

While maybe not as quick, certainly an entertaining option to driving yourself. And undoubtedly something many people have never done.

 

[trr1]

Alright I give up, what makes the monorail beam so expensive to build? It is just prefabricated concrete beams right? Granted there is many electrical components but....I mean one time I heard an estimate of over 1.5 million a mile. That seemed ridiculous to me.

i think the 1.5 million a mile was bsck in 1971

 

[devoy1701]

i think the 1.5 million a mile was bsck in 1971

seriously...you're only talking about adding no more than 8-10 miles worth of loops. If the whole thing could have been done for $15 million still then it would have been done no question.

 

[Tom]

Alright I give up, what makes the monorail beam so expensive to build? It is just prefabricated concrete beams right? Granted there is many electrical components but....I mean one time I heard an estimate of over 1.5 million a mile. That seemed ridiculous to me.

Making a pre-cast, pre-tensioned concrete beam that's between 30 and 80' long is a very expensive process. Plus, in 1971, they had to make them all in Washington and truck each and every beam individually to Florida.

Then, add the columns every 30-80'.

Then, add the GIANT foundations under each column to keep the track from ever sinking in the Florida swamp land.

Then add the miles of continuous electrical bus bars on each side - some with shrouds. And add a few electrical substations along the way to keep the power flowing.

Then add the trains themselves, with their extensive MAPO (safety) systems.

1 - 1.5 million dollars a mile was in 1971. I can't even imagine what that would be today, with inflation and the OUTRAGEOUS costs of construction materials right now. Concrete was less than $30 a cubic yard in 1971....it's close to $90 or even $100 right now - depending on what kind you get.

If they're going to drop $15-$30 million on something, I'd rather it be another D or E attraction and a few buses - not more monorail.

 

[devoy1701]

If they're going to drop $15-$30 million on something, I'd rather it be another D or E attraction and a few buses - not more monorail.

keep raising that number...

at $30 million I still think they would do it in a heartbeat.

 

[goofyfan13]

That's about the same cost to build a mile of four lane highway. A new loop only needs to hit Animal Kingdom, DHS and the TTC.

Maybe they could build a new steam train line to connect the lower half of the property AK, DHS and the value resorts

A Steam train would be awesome!

It would probably be more expensive, but I'd even like to see them look into maybe using Maglev technology. But yea...like I said, probably more expensive and not gonna happen...:lol:

 

[rooneymouse]

Are there any government programs or grants that could help Disney change over some of their current bus service to a green type of transportation system? (monorail) I would think that with all of the emissions impact that the current diesel fueled bus fleet generates that the government might be interested in helping Disney convert some of their current bus capacity over to an expanded monorail system. I'm sure that this could be a good P/R move for both Disney and the Federal and State governments.

On another note how much did the Las Vegas Monorail system cost to build? I know they are using the same system that Disney uses? Did the Federal and State government help in the construction of that system?

 

[Tom]

On another note how much did the Las Vegas Monorail system cost to build? I know they are using the same system that Disney uses? Did the Federal and State government help in the construction of that system?

I knew in 2000 what the Vegas monorail cost to build, but I can't remember now. It was in the million/mile range, I THINK.

Their $/mile factor isn't comparable to WDW's because they don't need near the foundations that the WDW system needs under its columns, and they made the beams/track within about 10 miles of where it was to be installed (i.e. little transportation cost).

Lastly, when they built the first part of it (which went from Bally's to MGM) they actually used WDW's first fleet of monorail trains (the ones where the doors popped open and the CM's had to slam each one shut). I forget which Mark version they were, but it was AWESOME to ride in one again. They still said "CAST MEMBERS ONLY" on the cockpit doors, but the WDW decals had been stripped off. I forgot how tiny and crappy they were though :lol:

On a similar note, I had the privilege of witnessing them make some of the beams for that monorail, which are EXACT duplicates of the WDW beams. They used the same drawings and designs and just updated the materials for today's standards.

They were fabricating them in an area of desert about 10 miles outside the strip, and we were given a tour because we were there for the Construction Convention. After seeing that operation, it became very apparent why the beams (and system overall) cost so much. Lots of labor goes into each beam, not to mention the materials.

 

[Mr.EPCOT]

I knew in 2000 what the Vegas monorail cost to build, but I can't remember now. It was in the million/mile range, I THINK.

Their $/mile factor isn't comparable to WDW's because they don't need near the foundations that the WDW system needs under its columns, and they made the beams/track within about 10 miles of where it was to be installed (i.e. little transportation cost).

Lastly, when they built the first part of it (which went from Bally's to MGM) they actually used WDW's first fleet of monorail trains (the ones where the doors popped open and the CM's had to slam each one shut). I forget which Mark version they were, but it was AWESOME to ride in one again. They still said "CAST MEMBERS ONLY" on the cockpit doors, but the WDW decals had been stripped off. I forgot how tiny and crappy they were though :lol:

On a similar note, I had the privilege of witnessing them make some of the beams for that monorail, which are EXACT duplicates of the WDW beams. They used the same drawings and designs and just updated the materials for today's standards.

They were fabricating them in an area of desert about 10 miles outside the strip, and we were given a tour because we were there for the Construction Convention. After seeing that operation, it became very apparent why the beams (and system overall) cost so much. Lots of labor goes into each beam, not to mention the materials.

They were Mark IV Monorails. I would like to point out that while their pylons don't have to go as deep, there was a much higher level of expense there than there would be at Walt Disney World because of building in the middle of a fully developed city, as opposed to mostly empty wilderness.

 

[trr1]

here are some cost for monorails
just a fyi and is a km shorter than a mile?

This is the number one question we receive at The Monorail Society. Unfortunately there is no simple answer. There are many variables which influence the price of building a monorail system (and most forms of rail transit). Factors include...

• Total length of the system: In many cases, costs can be reduced the longer a system is.
• Topography: Is the terrain flat or hilly, are there many roads or rivers to cross?
• Location: What is the access for construction equipment? Will there be heavy traffic or other impediments to construction?
• Utilities: Relocation of water mains, power lines, telephone lines, etc. can have a significant effect on cost increases.
• Land: What amount of land needs to be purchased or easements need to be acquired?
• Passenger requirements: What size and number of vehicles are required? How much time will they wait at stations?
• Speed: What are the speed requirements of the system? Are there long enough distances between stations so that a higher speed is desired?
• Number of Stations: Each additional station adds to the cost.
• Special Structures: Will tunnels, bridges, overpass reconstruction or urban structures be a factor?
• Geotechnical conditions: What are the subsurface conditions? They can have a major impact on foundation costs.
• Environmental Mitigation: Will restoration, wildlife protection or sound walls be required?

No matter what the cost of building one is, monorail has the one of the best chances of all transit modes of turning a profit. This said, we are publishing the following approximate cost figures of various monorail/monobeam systems (manufacturers listed alphabetically). The list is by no means complete. If you have additional information or corrections. If you are looking for more accurate cost figures for a specific alignment, the most accurate information should be obtained directly from the manufacturer or a monorail-knowledgeable consultant (one that won't just try to sell you light or heavy rail).

System type Cost/Year Info Source System Status
Hitachi
$15 million/km
1964


Tokyo-Haneda Monorail
Operating
Hitachi
$62 million/km
1985


Kitakyushu Monorail
Operating
VSL-
(refurbished Mark IV trains)
$25 million/mile
1995

MGM-Bally's Monorail
Replaced with Bombardier system

Hitachi
$27 million/km
$44 million/mile
2003

Okinawa Monorail
Operating

Kuala Lumpur
MTrans
$36 million/km
2003

Kuala Lumpur Monorail
Operating

Bombardier MVI
$88 million/mile
2004

Las Vegas Monorail
(7 stations/4 miles)
Operating

Hitachi$73.4 million/km
2006

Palm Jumeirah MonorailOpens
2009

Metrail
$20 million/km


2008
Metrail
Contracted

Rowin/Urbanaut
$10.3 million/km
2008


Rowin
Construction (2008)

Scomi
$30.75 million/km
2008
Mumbai Monorail
(Rites Ltd.)
Construction (2008)


Disclaimer: The above figures were calculated by extrapolating information in the public domain. We encourage manufacturers and consultants to provide us with corrected cost estimates if any of our numbers appear to be incorrect. As stated above, the number one question posed to us is "How much does monorail cost?" This information is vital for those proposing or planning a transit system.
​

 

[Dragonrider1227]

Nah, they should expand the People Mover. That was supposed to be EPCOT's main mode of transportation, right? Let's make it WDWs!