California Adventure vs Universal Studios Hollywood

[DavidDL]

I don't get why you need to insert this graphic. Completely unnecessary. I suppose this is how you feel about California Adventure.

Not what you said before. You said you give Universal some slack for having various different themes that don't fit. So now you will accuse me of putting words in your mouth?


This is not a strategy. It is already broken with Nintendo Land as it is being built. Ride the movies and video games.

I'm not getting where your frustration is since the only outlier will be Avengers Campus and it will be open in 1 month. Then you're allowed to be frustrated unless you realized it was actually designed for California.

The park will always have a theme regardless. And every theme park will have difficulty being cohesive. You're still chasing a unicorn.

Let's discuss Guardians since this is the major outlier since all the other attractions fit in California.

Guardians is in Hollywood Pictures. Since you established that Universal Studios can have such theming deviations, you should give Guardians slack for this exact reason. Then the other obvious truth is Guardians is actually part of Avenger Campus. It won't ever just be an isolated attraction. The backstories are printing themselves. I saw many Stark billboards that will line up on pathways. It evokes the fictional California aerospace and automotive history.


So California No, but Theme Yes? DCA is really a Hollywood Studios park. This is the only obvious alternative theme without ripping everything out. Ball and chain lifted. Let's not get carried away. I'm used to it being called California Adventure and it is largely California Adventure with Avengers based in California in June 2021.

So we established that we're all upset over the outliers. Go and enjoy the theme parks!!!

You know why it was inserted. Attempts to explain things to you fall on deaf ears.

Yeah, I cut them slack from, as I’ve said, having “seemingly random themes”, because their decided choice of park theme allows for it. California Adventure, on the other hand, evokes an immediate expectation when you hear the name, expectations which the park has failed to deliver on for some, since 2012. Seemingly random lands and characters work in a park that is left intentionally vague enough to accommodate them all. DCA is does not do this, ergo, I do not give it the same leeway.

Its like you didn’t even read my post in depth (another reason why the graphic is applicable), Nintendo is getting a movie, made by Universal, at the same time as Super Nintendo Land. Nothing broken here.

AC is not the only outlier. Soarin over CA became Soarin over the World (makes more sense for Epcot), Tower became Guardians, Paradise became Pixar and so on.

Your assertion that trying to find a fully cohesive theme for a park is like “chasing a unicorn”, is bunk. You’re basically saying that it can’t be done. Pandora fits into Animal Kingdom more or less because of its focus on the creatures that live there and preservation thereof. I’ll admit that finding Unicorns would be a bit of an issue in this case considering they were cut for this purpose.

-and no, Guardians doesn’t get the same treatment as something like Tower in Hollywoodland from me. Because Disney attempted to sell it to us, the Guests, as an aberration within the park. By Disney’s own admission, it isn’t “supposed to be there”, it is from another reality and has no reason to be in the greater Hollywoodland or California area other than to save them some money. We also already knew well in advance that they’d be incorporating it into an Avengers area, which just furthered the idea that it didn’t belong where it did. Guardians wasn’t playing up the fact that you were in a movie studio and stepping “into a movie” through some sort of transition on set the way Universal does. Hollywoodland is presented as a functioning, fictionalized version of the city and a hotel makes much more sense within that context than a sudden, magic fortress. It might have, if they’d have gone the extra mile to theme the surrounding area into a mini Marvel Studios backlot, but why would they when they knew Avengers Campus was on the way?

In terms of Avengers Campus, if a few painted words on the wall saying that this area is Stark’s former CA motor factory is enough to convince you that the area meets the criteria of, as the park states, celebrating the diversity of the people who live here and the state as a whole, then there’s nothing I can do for you.

I have explained multiple times already where I stand on CA theme and what I expect, I’m frankly flabbergasted that you haven’t found understanding yet. For me, it’s either remove all traces of the California theme and change the park name to continue down this path of “it makes money so put it here” or commit to the CA theme and go the extra mile to make it work. I don’t believe that DCA is the “very obvious Hollywood Studios” park yet, either. Because Hollywood has its own, dedicated land. If this park is meant to be entirely Hollywood Studios, the Grizzly park area, pier and wharf no longer make sense and need to be adjusted.

In terms of being upset over the outliers, you’re mostly right. Thankfully, the things I enjoy in DCA can all be enjoyed without ever even needing to walk past what I consider to be the problem areas of the park. -and as I’ve already established, I enjoy them, then move on to Disneyland. -and will continue to do so until they too, are removed. I’ve never been of the stance that DCA has absolutely nothing for me, it does. But only 4 or 5 things. Universal simply offers me more and doesn’t remind me of broken promises and dreams, to boot.

 

[DavidDL]

Disney should have never change Tower of Terror. :/

The interesting thing about this, is that they could have gone the extra mile to make this work to their advantage in terms of "what this park is supposed to be" while keeping the park name.

I present, a third option in terms of what "Disney California Adventure" could mean: Disney adventures you can only have in California.

Basically, no clone attractions. Experiences that cannot be found elsewhere. If this were the case, then Disney, arguably would NEED to remove the Tower of Terror since it already exists in Disney Hollywood Studios, FL.

For a brief time, I was thinking this might be the direction they were heading. But there's too many experiences copy-and-pasted for the park to make this claim: Soarin' (also in Epcot), Mermaid (also in Magic Kingdom), Philharmagic (also in Magic Kingdom), Midway Mania (also in DisneySea and Hollywood Studios) and the animation building (also in Disneyland Paris).

A park filled with CA-exclusive rides and shows with the vague, leftover California theme, I think would have been good, as well. -and if that were the direction they decided go, I'd be far more accepting of Tower's removal.

 

[DanielBB8]

You know why it was inserted. Attempts to explain things to you fall on deaf ears.

I read EVERY SINGLE WORD. I'm not quite sure what you expect me to do for you. I already said I can understand perfectly why you don't care for DCA attractions. However, you proved you're hung up on context more. You can stop going to DCA as a personal preference. That's your choice. I HEAR YOU.

Yeah, I cut them slack from, as I’ve said, having “seemingly random themes”, because their decided choice of park theme allows for it. California Adventure, on the other hand, evokes an immediate expectation when you hear the name, expectations which the park has failed to deliver on for some, since 2012. Seemingly random lands and characters work in a park that is left intentionally vague enough to accommodate them all. DCA is does not do this, ergo, I do not give it the same leeway.

I already said your double standards are fine by me. Double standards away. Go for it. I HEAR YOU.

Its like you didn’t even read my post in depth (another reason why the graphic is applicable), Nintendo is getting a movie, made by Universal, at the same time as Super Nintendo Land. Nothing broken here.

The movie isn't out yet; however, the presentation is all video games. It isn't a movie presentation of Nintendo and you don't even know the plot of the movie. You get carried away with this line of argument. The attractions is all video game. I HEAR YOU.

AC is not the only outlier. Soarin over CA became Soarin over the World (makes more sense for Epcot), Tower became Guardians, Paradise became Pixar and so on.

I can understand why you might not like Soarin' over the World. You never said a word about it before like I'm supposed to guess. Neither did you say anything about Pixar Pier. However, the exterior of Soarin' became even more California. They made the theming more California National Parks than before. It's pretty lame that you don't recognize that. Paradise Pier becoming Pixar Pier isn't much of a stretch. The Pier is more like what a Disney theme park should be.

Your assertion that trying to find a fully cohesive theme for a park is like “chasing a unicorn”, is bunk. You’re basically saying that it can’t be done. Pandora fits into Animal Kingdom more or less because of its focus on the creatures that live there and preservation thereof. I’ll admit that finding Unicorns would be a bit of an issue in this case considering they were cut for this purpose.

You're clearly moving the goalposts with every post and it's comical as how you're twisting in the wind.

-and no, Guardians doesn’t get the same treatment as something like Tower in Hollywoodland from me. Because Disney attempted to sell it to us, the Guests, as an aberration within the park. By Disney’s own admission, it isn’t “supposed to be there”, it is from another reality and has no reason to be in the greater Hollywoodland or California area other than to save them some money. We also already knew well in advance that they’d be incorporating it into an Avengers area, which just furthered the idea that it didn’t belong where it did. Guardians wasn’t playing up the fact that you were in a movie studio and stepping “into a movie” through some sort of transition on set the way Universal does. Hollywoodland is presented as a functioning, fictionalized version of the city and a hotel makes much more sense within that context than a sudden, magic fortress. It might have, if they’d have gone the extra mile to theme the surrounding area into a mini Marvel Studios backlot, but why would they when they knew Avengers Campus was on the way?

In terms of Avengers Campus, if a few painted words on the wall saying that this area is Stark’s former CA motor factory is enough to convince you that the area meets the criteria of, as the park states, celebrating the diversity of the people who live here and the state as a whole, then there’s nothing I can do for you.

You certainly have high standards that can never be met. Keep your double standards up and up and up. And keep your standards for USH low and low and low.

When Guardians opened, they always said the new land is on it's way.

There's nothing I can do for you either when it's looking into your face about diversity of the people who live here. They just showed the Avengers Campus costumes with diverse people wearing them.

First Look: Avengers Campus Cast Members Assemble in New Cast Costumes

Avengers Campus cast members have assembled at Disney California Adventure park. Their mission: Gear up in their brand-new costumes as they prepare Avengers Campus to begin recruiting guests on June 4. “Our cast members play a unique part in

disneyparks.disney.go.com

I have explained multiple times already where I stand on CA theme and what I expect, I’m frankly flabbergasted that you haven’t found understanding yet. For me, it’s either remove all traces of the California theme and change the park name to continue down this path of “it makes money so put it here” or commit to the CA theme and go the extra mile to make it work. I don’t believe that DCA is the “very obvious Hollywood Studios” park yet, either. Because Hollywood has its own, dedicated land. If this park is meant to be entirely Hollywood Studios, the Grizzly park area, pier and wharf no longer make sense and need to be adjusted.

In terms of being upset over the outliers, you’re mostly right. Thankfully, the things I enjoy in DCA can all be enjoyed without ever even needing to walk past what I consider to be the problem areas of the park. -and as I’ve already established, I enjoy them, then move on to Disneyland. -and will continue to do so until they too, are removed. I’ve never been of the stance that DCA has absolutely nothing for me, it does. But only 4 or 5 things. Universal simply offers me more and doesn’t remind me of broken promises and dreams, to boot.

I told you that you can enjoy not going to DCA multiple times. You're flabbergasted that I find your reasoning to be double standards and completely hilarious, but you can keep them. They are your opinions. Keep them. I HEAR YOU.

 

[DavidDL]

I read EVERY SINGLE WORD. I already said I can understand perfectly why you don't care for DCA attractions. However, you proved you're hung up on context more. You can stop going to DCA as a personal preference. That's your choice.

Even if I give you the benefit of the doubt that you'd read them, that doesn't mean you understand them. I still visit DCA. There are attractions in DCA that I really enjoy and have no plans to stop visiting them until they are gone. So it's not that I "don't care for DCA attractions". Nay, I cared a great deal for many of them before they were ruined, thus making the pain even greater and the things left to enjoy, more scarce.

I already said your double standards are fine by me. Double standards away. Go for it.

Again, not double standards. If one park tells you they're going to be a series of random themes and characters so long as they adhere to the overall promise of what that park is supposed to be at it's core, they can do whatever. But if a park tells you they're going to be something else then throws a bunch of random themes and characters that don't support that, then they get to be judged accordingly.

The movie isn't out yet; however, the presentation is all video games. It isn't a movie presentation of Nintendo and you don't even know the plot of the movie. You get carried away with this line of argument. The attractions is all video game. I HEAR YOU.

Apparently, it will be about the same time as our land opens. You're right, I don't know the plot of the movie but I know it will be based around Super Mario, which is what the new land will be based around, exclusively. Not Poke'mon, not The Legend of Zelda. Mario. If the park were filled with Legend of Zelda rides without a Legend of Zelda movie on the horizon not being made by Universal, I'd agree Ninendo Land to be an outlier. But it's not proven to be, yet. For now, we have a Mario movie being made by Universal on the way and that's all anyone can draw from.

I can understand why you might not like Soarin' over the World. You never said a word about it before like I'm supposed to guess. Neither did you say anything about Pixar Pier. However, the exterior of Soarin' became even more California. They made the theming more California National Parks than before. It's pretty lame that you don't recognize that. Paradise Pier becoming Pixar Pier isn't much of a stretch. The Pier is more like what a Disney theme park should be.

The exterior, yes. I agree, the new area around Soarin' is beautiful and I have no issues with it. But my overall stance on the park, about it being a bunch of broken promises and dreams to me, recently, still stands. I do recognize the improvements when they happen but I've also stated already that the attractions in DCA, have been going downhill all over the place in recent years, on the whole. I have given examples of them (Incredicoaster, Guardians, Soarin') and why I feel the way I do, plenty of times already. You don't need to guess, you only need see what I've written. Just because they pretty the outside of a building, doesn't forgive the proverbial punch in the face I get when I step inside and ride.

-and I guess I agree that Paradise Pier becoming Pixar Pier isn't much of a stretch. After all, Paradise Pier was on it's way to becoming something classy and Pixar Pier ripped all that away. So I guess, in many ways, Pixar Pier is an accurate reflection of what Disney thinks a theme park should be.

Meanwhile, over at Universal's entrance plaza, the opposite is occurring. The overly tacky entry area once filled with giant Spongebob signage, Frankenstein hot dogs and in-your-face photo stands has given way to some beautiful and cohesive buildings.

You're clearly moving the goalposts with every post and it's comical as how you're twisting in the wind.

Nonsense. I've made the same points over and over and retained the same line of thinking. Those points being: 1) That I prefer my time in Universal more and 2) part of the reason why, is because DCA can't commit and as a result, has been going downhill and it's attractions suffering for nearly a decade now.

You certainly have high standards that can never be met. Keep your double standards up and up and up. And keep your standards for USH low and low and low.

Please. One of my favorite attractions in DCA is, unironically, Silly Symphony Swings. High standards that can never be met?

-and my standards for USH are not low. I have been plenty critical of them. Just because I like one of them more than the other, doesn't mean I'm blind to the faults of the one I think is better. Their over-reliance on screens being part of that iceberg. However, when pulled aside to give them honest criticism at Guest Services and to tell them how much I appreciated an attraction like Secret Life of Pets being added to the park (family friendly, dark ride without an over reliance on screens), they told me they had been hearing that from lots of Guests. Which means at the very least, they are actually listening to Guests instead of just expecting them to visit because they're "name brand". I will continue to hold them accountable for both their successes and failures.

When Guardians opened, they always said the new land is on it's way.

Right. Which is exactly why I never considered it fair to judge it as part of "Hollywoodland".

There's nothing I can do for you either when it's looking into your face about diversity of the people who live here. They just showed the Avengers Campus costumes with diverse people wearing them.

So because a diverse group of people are wearing Avengers-themed outfits, I'm supposed to take that as, "Mission accomplished, DCA has met the standards of celebrating what makes the people and land of California unique?" How does that work, exactly? Because by that logic, there's a diverse group of people wearing the Space Mountain outfit, as well. Or Mansion. Or Pirates.

By that logic, DCA fails to do anything that Disneyland isn't doing already. It's not providing any sort of "unique" celebration of the land, stories or people of California.

I told you that you can enjoy not going to DCA multiple times. You're flabbergasted that I find your reasoning to be double standards and completely hilarious, but you can keep them. They are your opinions. Keep them. I HEAR YOU.

-and I will again, tell you, that there are things in DCA that I enjoy. Just because I enjoy Universal more, does not mean that I magically don't enjoy the things I do like in DCA. DCA promises me, as a Guest, something and I find said thing in only a handful of attractions within the park. I enjoy those attractions. Universal promises me, as a Guest, something and I find said thing everywhere.

Just because you don't agree with my or anyone else's reasoning, doesn't make said reasoning invalid. I have provided more than enough reasonable talking points for others here to understand where I am coming from, logically and why I feel the way I do, fairly. Your assertions that I'm not being "fair" to DCA are incorrect.

I judge both parks critically. But I also need to judge both parks on what they are claiming to be. A car that claims to be a car and actually is a car, gets a good score from me. But a scooter that claims to be car and actually isn't, gets rightfully criticized for it's claim.

Disney California Adventure becomes less of a California Adventure with each new change. Holding it accountable for that isn't being "unfair".

 

[CaptinEO]

You know why it was inserted. Attempts to explain things to you fall on deaf ears.

Yeah, I cut them slack from, as I’ve said, having “seemingly random themes”, because their decided choice of park theme allows for it. California Adventure, on the other hand, evokes an immediate expectation when you hear the name, expectations which the park has failed to deliver on for some, since 2012. Seemingly random lands and characters work in a park that is left intentionally vague enough to accommodate them all. DCA is does not do this, ergo, I do not give it the same leeway.

Its like you didn’t even read my post in depth (another reason why the graphic is applicable), Nintendo is getting a movie, made by Universal, at the same time as Super Nintendo Land. Nothing broken here.

AC is not the only outlier. Soarin over CA became Soarin over the World (makes more sense for Epcot), Tower became Guardians, Paradise became Pixar and so on.

Your assertion that trying to find a fully cohesive theme for a park is like “chasing a unicorn”, is bunk. You’re basically saying that it can’t be done. Pandora fits into Animal Kingdom more or less because of its focus on the creatures that live there and preservation thereof. I’ll admit that finding Unicorns would be a bit of an issue in this case considering they were cut for this purpose.

-and no, Guardians doesn’t get the same treatment as something like Tower in Hollywoodland from me. Because Disney attempted to sell it to us, the Guests, as an aberration within the park. By Disney’s own admission, it isn’t “supposed to be there”, it is from another reality and has no reason to be in the greater Hollywoodland or California area other than to save them some money. We also already knew well in advance that they’d be incorporating it into an Avengers area, which just furthered the idea that it didn’t belong where it did. Guardians wasn’t playing up the fact that you were in a movie studio and stepping “into a movie” through some sort of transition on set the way Universal does. Hollywoodland is presented as a functioning, fictionalized version of the city and a hotel makes much more sense within that context than a sudden, magic fortress. It might have, if they’d have gone the extra mile to theme the surrounding area into a mini Marvel Studios backlot, but why would they when they knew Avengers Campus was on the way?

In terms of Avengers Campus, if a few painted words on the wall saying that this area is Stark’s former CA motor factory is enough to convince you that the area meets the criteria of, as the park states, celebrating the diversity of the people who live here and the state as a whole, then there’s nothing I can do for you.

I have explained multiple times already where I stand on CA theme and what I expect, I’m frankly flabbergasted that you haven’t found understanding yet. For me, it’s either remove all traces of the California theme and change the park name to continue down this path of “it makes money so put it here” or commit to the CA theme and go the extra mile to make it work. I don’t believe that DCA is the “very obvious Hollywood Studios” park yet, either. Because Hollywood has its own, dedicated land. If this park is meant to be entirely Hollywood Studios, the Grizzly park area, pier and wharf no longer make sense and need to be adjusted.

In terms of being upset over the outliers, you’re mostly right. Thankfully, the things I enjoy in DCA can all be enjoyed without ever even needing to walk past what I consider to be the problem areas of the park. -and as I’ve already established, I enjoy them, then move on to Disneyland. -and will continue to do so until they too, are removed. I’ve never been of the stance that DCA has absolutely nothing for me, it does. But only 4 or 5 things. Universal simply offers me more and doesn’t remind me of broken promises and dreams, to boot.

Agree with every word. Very well put.

Even in 2012 the theme was a little bit of a stretch but believable, the second that "Walt Disneys 1930s California" turns into a super hero warehouse powerplant in plain sight is where they lose the plot.

 

[DavidDL]

Agree with every word. Very well put.

Even in 2012 the theme was a little bit of a stretch but believable, the second that "Walt Disneys 1930s California" turns into a super hero warehouse powerplant in plain sight is where they lose the plot.

Thank you. I like to think that I've been coherent to all but one. I don't expect everyone to agree with me, I wouldn't expect that in a million years. But my case is clear and understandable, even if it's not something that everyone agrees with.

I have a differing opinion on how to view the park but that doesn't mean I'm being "unfair" or skewing my judgement. I can handle people disagreeing with me. I just can't handle people saying I'm formulating my (personal) opinion wrong because of some kind of imaginary fairness bias.

Edit: Regarding your point about the transition, it's not like they couldn't make it work within the park. But there needs to be a stronger, more cohesive theme or idea related to whatever the park is trying to portray itself as. Right now, it's claiming to be a "California Adventure" with all the themes and celebrations that should come with that. However, the new land is a stretch. Because it doesn't celebrate or embody anything about the state. It's just a contrived story that they claim takes place in the state to try and hide the fact that all they wanted to do was cash in before it's too late. It doesn't present the illusion or even further any sort of understanding Guests might have about California culture and how Disney characters could fit within these greater ideas or themes.

No, it's just, "Suddenly Spider-man!


...also, Tony Stark's dad had a factory here, or something, yeah, that'll work nicely. They'll eat that right up."

If Disney could just present an Avengers ride that feels at home within the greater context of a land or area that feels at home within the park, we wouldn't even NEED a storyline about why it's there. We wouldn't even question it, because it would just feel natural for it to be there in the first place. Instead, since they had to make something up in order for us to pretend it's okay or give it a pass to be there, it only calls more attention to the fact that it's not located properly to begin with.

 

[DanielBB8]

I understand and disagree. I’m not the one having the problem. You can’t accept disagreement somehow. Increasingly, it seems responding to a post requires one to agree like in an echo chamber. I HEAR YOU, but I don’t intend to be your therapist.

 

[Sharon&Susan]

I understand and disagree. I’m not the one having the problem. You can’t accept disagreement somehow. Increasingly, it seems responding to a post requires one to agree like in an echo chamber. I HEAR YOU, but I don’t intend to be your therapist.

 

[DanielBB8]

View attachment 559890

You’re the hit and run poster.

 

[Sharon&Susan]

You’re the hit and run poster.

That's a Disney and Universal Studios IP!

 

[lumberguy5]

Currently USH is attempt to fix their self-induced issues, but one factor is that on weekends in this reopening, USH has had park wait time exceeding all but the highest historical averages. With weekend average waits over 80mins, and during the morning/early afternoon can see waits over 120min on all major attractions.

In park experience on previous weekends is 3-4x waits at USH vs DCA.

Disney has slowly crept the crowds up, and USH went straight to the limits.

 

[DanielBB8]

Even if I give you the benefit of the doubt that you'd read them, that doesn't mean you understand them. I still visit DCA. There are attractions in DCA that I really enjoy and have no plans to stop visiting them until they are gone. So it's not that I "don't care for DCA attractions". Nay, I cared a great deal for many of them before they were ruined, thus making the pain even greater and the things left to enjoy, more scarce.



Again, not double standards. If one park tells you they're going to be a series of random themes and characters so long as they adhere to the overall promise of what that park is supposed to be at it's core, they can do whatever. But if a park tells you they're going to be something else then throws a bunch of random themes and characters that don't support that, then they get to be judged accordingly.



Apparently, it will be about the same time as our land opens. You're right, I don't know the plot of the movie but I know it will be based around Super Mario, which is what the new land will be based around, exclusively. Not Poke'mon, not The Legend of Zelda. Mario. If the park were filled with Legend of Zelda rides without a Legend of Zelda movie on the horizon not being made by Universal, I'd agree Ninendo Land to be an outlier. But it's not proven to be, yet. For now, we have a Mario movie being made by Universal on the way and that's all anyone can draw from.



The exterior, yes. I agree, the new area around Soarin' is beautiful and I have no issues with it. But my overall stance on the park, about it being a bunch of broken promises and dreams to me, recently, still stands. I do recognize the improvements when they happen but I've also stated already that the attractions in DCA, have been going downhill all over the place in recent years, on the whole. I have given examples of them (Incredicoaster, Guardians, Soarin') and why I feel the way I do, plenty of times already. You don't need to guess, you only need see what I've written. Just because they pretty the outside of a building, doesn't forgive the proverbial punch in the face I get when I step inside and ride.

-and I guess I agree that Paradise Pier becoming Pixar Pier isn't much of a stretch. After all, Paradise Pier was on it's way to becoming something classy and Pixar Pier ripped all that away. So I guess, in many ways, Pixar Pier is an accurate reflection of what Disney thinks a theme park should be.

Meanwhile, over at Universal's entrance plaza, the opposite is occurring. The overly tacky entry area once filled with giant Spongebob signage, Frankenstein hot dogs and in-your-face photo stands has given way to some beautiful and cohesive buildings.



Nonsense. I've made the same points over and over and retained the same line of thinking. Those points being: 1) That I prefer my time in Universal more and 2) part of the reason why, is because DCA can't commit and as a result, has been going downhill and it's attractions suffering for nearly a decade now.



Please. One of my favorite attractions in DCA is, unironically, Silly Symphony Swings. High standards that can never be met?

-and my standards for USH are not low. I have been plenty critical of them. Just because I like one of them more than the other, doesn't mean I'm blind to the faults of the one I think is better. Their over-reliance on screens being part of that iceberg. However, when pulled aside to give them honest criticism at Guest Services and to tell them how much I appreciated an attraction like Secret Life of Pets being added to the park (family friendly, dark ride without an over reliance on screens), they told me they had been hearing that from lots of Guests. Which means at the very least, they are actually listening to Guests instead of just expecting them to visit because they're "name brand". I will continue to hold them accountable for both their successes and failures.



Right. Which is exactly why I never considered it fair to judge it as part of "Hollywoodland".



So because a diverse group of people are wearing Avengers-themed outfits, I'm supposed to take that as, "Mission accomplished, DCA has met the standards of celebrating what makes the people and land of California unique?" How does that work, exactly? Because by that logic, there's a diverse group of people wearing the Space Mountain outfit, as well. Or Mansion. Or Pirates.

By that logic, DCA fails to do anything that Disneyland isn't doing already. It's not providing any sort of "unique" celebration of the land, stories or people of California.



-and I will again, tell you, that there are things in DCA that I enjoy. Just because I enjoy Universal more, does not mean that I magically don't enjoy the things I do like in DCA. DCA promises me, as a Guest, something and I find said thing in only a handful of attractions within the park. I enjoy those attractions. Universal promises me, as a Guest, something and I find said thing everywhere.

Just because you don't agree with my or anyone else's reasoning, doesn't make said reasoning invalid. I have provided more than enough reasonable talking points for others here to understand where I am coming from, logically and why I feel the way I do, fairly. Your assertions that I'm not being "fair" to DCA are incorrect.

I judge both parks critically. But I also need to judge both parks on what they are claiming to be. A car that claims to be a car and actually is a car, gets a good score from me. But a scooter that claims to be car and actually isn't, gets rightfully criticized for it's claim.

Disney California Adventure becomes less of a California Adventure with each new change. Holding it accountable for that isn't being "unfair".

I have to hand it to you for the longest post ever.

Come on, you compared Pixar Pier with Universal’s entrance. Buena Vista Street doesn’t count? This is not an one for one comparison.

California is unique. You dismissed the diversity in Avengers Campus, but the California Adventure that you want was depressing. Do you want Golden Dreams (replaced by Mermaid attraction) where you watched an Chinese father and son die from a mine explosion? Okay, why don’t we ask Disney to return it to Showcase Theater for special screenings?

Today’s public will be appalled by the storyline. Just read it. It has Japanese mail order bride in it.

Yesterland: Golden Dreams

yesterland.com

 

[DavidDL]

I have to hand it to you for the longest post ever.

Come on, you compared Pixar Pier with Universal’s entrance. Buena Vista Street doesn’t count? This is not an one for one comparison.

California is unique. You dismissed the diversity in Avengers Campus, but the California Adventure that you want was depressing. Do you want Golden Dreams (replaced by Mermaid attraction) where you watched an Chinese father and son die from a mine explosion? Okay, why don’t we ask Disney to return it to Showcase Theater for special screenings?

I'm getting vibes that you you think I want DCA 1.0 aka DCA 2001? That's not what I want at all.

I want the DCA that was coming about in 2012, I want the continuation of that. 2012 DCA was the revitalization of Paradise Pier, Little Mermaid, the conversion of Burger Invasion to Paradise Garden, Buena Visa Street, Ghirardelli Wharf addition, Grizzly Peak expansion and yes, even Carsland (which I gave a pass to at the time because there was just so much good happening in the park).

But ever since then, we lost Muppet*Vision 3D, "it's tough to be a bug!", Soarin' over California went away for Soarin' around the World, Tower of Terror was replaced with Guardians, Aladdin was replaced with Frozen, Frozen also took away a hefty chunk of the animation building I used to frequent (the voice acting Ursula grotto), Paradise Pier lost it's classy future in exchange for Pixar Pier, Screamin' went from being a ride I used to love to a ride I can no longer stand because all I can hear are people screaming "Jack Jack!" in my ear and now, finally, we arrive at Avengers Campus. A land, which, whether or not is good, will still feel out of place to me in California Adventure.

Yes, original DCA was bad. I agree with you 100% there. It was tacky. But in from 2008 to 2012, they were turning a corner. They were building up to a better future. Then, for some reason, it all came crashing down. What I wanted to see out of DCA was the finished version of stuff like this:

-and unfortunately, I can't find the video but Disney used to play a video in the Blue Sky Cellar where they would reveal a total overhaul for the Hyperion Theatre, thus losing the tacky facade illusion and replace it with an actual theatre front. If anyone has the image of it or the video, please let me know. Right now the only thing I can find alluding to it is this image, which shows there was work to be done on the Hyperion that never got off the ground:

 

[DanielBB8]

I'm getting vibes that you you think I want DCA 1.0 aka DCA 2001? That's not what I want at all.

I want the DCA that was coming about in 2012, I want the continuation of that. 2012 DCA was the revitalization of Paradise Pier, Little Mermaid, the conversion of Burger Invasion to Paradise Garden, Buena Visa Street, Ghirardelli Wharf addition, Grizzly Peak expansion and yes, even Carsland (which I gave a pass to at the time because there was just so much good happening in the park).

But ever since then, we lost Muppet*Vision 3D, "it's tough to be a bug!", Soarin' over California went away for Soarin' around the World, Tower of Terror was replaced with Guardians, Aladdin was replaced with Frozen, Frozen also took away a hefty chunk of the animation building I used to frequent (the voice acting Ursula grotto), Paradise Pier lost it's classy future in exchange for Pixar Pier, Screamin' went from being a ride I used to love to a ride I can no longer stand because all I can hear are people screaming "Jack Jack!" in my ear and now, finally, we arrive at Avengers Campus. A land, which, whether or not is good, will still feel out of place to me in California Adventure.

Yes, original DCA was bad. I agree with you 100% there. It was tacky. But in from 2008 to 2012, they were turning a corner. They were building up to a better future. Then, for some reason, it all came crashing down. What I wanted to see out of DCA was the finished version of stuff like this:

View attachment 559893

-and unfortunately, I can't find the video but Disney used to play a video in the Blue Sky Cellar where they would reveal a total overhaul for the Hyperion Theatre, thus losing the tacky facade illusion and replace it with an actual theatre front. If anyone has the image of it or the video, please let me know. Right now the only thing I can find alluding to it is this image, which shows there was work to be done on the Hyperion that never got off the ground:

View attachment 559894

I was referring specifically to “By that logic, DCA fails to do anything that Disneyland isn't doing already. It's not providing any sort of "unique" celebration of the land, stories or people of California.”

I READ YOUR POSTS. Golden Dreams fit the bill exactly. Why reinvent the wheel? This is what you want.

The nice pictures don’t provide stories and people. It’s just a lot of landmarks.

 

[J4546]

shoot i like the way DCA is going. and it still has a very California vibe to it to me

 

[DLR92]

I'm getting vibes that you you think I want DCA 1.0 aka DCA 2001? That's not what I want at all.

I want the DCA that was coming about in 2012, I want the continuation of that. 2012 DCA was the revitalization of Paradise Pier, Little Mermaid, the conversion of Burger Invasion to Paradise Garden, Buena Visa Street, Ghirardelli Wharf addition, Grizzly Peak expansion and yes, even Carsland (which I gave a pass to at the time because there was just so much good happening in the park).

But ever since then, we lost Muppet*Vision 3D, "it's tough to be a bug!", Soarin' over California went away for Soarin' around the World, Tower of Terror was replaced with Guardians, Aladdin was replaced with Frozen, Frozen also took away a hefty chunk of the animation building I used to frequent (the voice acting Ursula grotto), Paradise Pier lost it's classy future in exchange for Pixar Pier, Screamin' went from being a ride I used to love to a ride I can no longer stand because all I can hear are people screaming "Jack Jack!" in my ear and now, finally, we arrive at Avengers Campus. A land, which, whether or not is good, will still feel out of place to me in California Adventure.

Yes, original DCA was bad. I agree with you 100% there. It was tacky. But in from 2008 to 2012, they were turning a corner. They were building up to a better future. Then, for some reason, it all came crashing down. What I wanted to see out of DCA was the finished version of stuff like this:

View attachment 559893

-and unfortunately, I can't find the video but Disney used to play a video in the Blue Sky Cellar where they would reveal a total overhaul for the Hyperion Theatre, thus losing the tacky facade illusion and replace it with an actual theatre front. If anyone has the image of it or the video, please let me know. Right now the only thing I can find alluding to it is this image, which shows there was work to be done on the Hyperion that never got off the ground:

View attachment 559894

Those phases when DCA was being. Revamped was the direction it needed. But no we got lame pathetic Pixar Pier forced with the obnoxious Incredibles tie in coaster. California Screamin’ was fine as is. I forgot Soarin’. Over California was gone. Then Tower of Terror change really seal the deal with me with disbelief! I want to know what Made Disney changed to focus less of California theme for random IP based lands that don’t feel organic with the park expansion and changes.

 

[DavidDL]

I was referring specifically to “By that logic, DCA fails to do anything that Disneyland isn't doing already. It's not providing any sort of "unique" celebration of the land, stories or people of California.”

I READ YOUR POSTS. Golden Dreams fit the bill exactly. Why reinvent the wheel? This is what you want.

I can’t say one way or another, I never watched Golden Dreams. I’m not saying Disney needs to go full edutainment (though we’ve certainly seen that that kind of thing can work with enough effort in places like Epcot).

Just that they should have been gone the route of thinking about how Disney characters and stories can be better incorporated into general themes and areas that still fit the California theme. Not how they can shoehorn characters in by any means necessary.

Mermaid is a perfect fit for the area, likely much better than Golden Dreams but Mermaid also feels like it naturally belongs in an area like Paradise Pier without feeling forced or needing some made up backstory to justify why it’s in the park. It’s a pier-side dark ride with a nautical theme, what’s not to love? It fits the feel of the area and the area in turn, fits the feel of a California Adventure.

You’re not in control here of anyone but yourself. You don’t get to tell me what I want or speak for me. What I want is a better balance of things. The balance that they were starting to find around this time in DCA’s history. Something like Golden Dreams is an example likely too far in one direction while something like Mission Breakout is too far into the other.

But, I wouldn’t know because I haven’t watched it. Even if it was bad, there likely would have been a way to do it right. Epcot again, for example, and even Lincoln here can entertain Guests with stuff like that. But DCA 1.0 was entirely cheaped out. They’d never have sprung for something along the lines of say, an audio animatronic show.

 

[DanielBB8]

I can’t say one way or another, I never watched Golden Dreams. I’m not saying Disney needs to go full edutainment (though we’ve certainly seen that that kind of thing can work with enough effort in places like Epcot).

Just that they should have been gone the route of thinking about how Disney characters and stories can be better incorporated into general themes and areas that still fit the California theme. Not how they can shoehorn characters in by any means necessary.

Mermaid is a perfect fit for the area, likely much better than Golden Dreams but Mermaid also feels like it naturally belongs in an area like Paradise Pier without feeling forced or needing some made up backstory to justify why it’s in the park. It’s a pier-side dark ride with a nautical theme, what’s not to love? It fits the feel of the area and the area in turn, fits the feel of a California Adventure.

You’re not in control here. You don’t get to tell me what I want or speak for me. What I want is a better balance of things. The balance that they were starting to find around this time in DCA’s history. Something like Golden Dreams is an example likely too far in one direction while something like Mission Breakout is too far into the other.

But, I wouldn’t know because I haven’t watched it. Even if it was bad, there likely would have been a way to do it right. Epcot again, for example, and even Lincoln here can entertain Guests with stuff like that. But DCA 1.0 was entirely cheaped out. They’d never have sprung for something along the lines of say, an audio animatronic show.

I’m not speaking for you, but It’s increasingly clear you talk about things that didn’t work in DCA that they left behind for good reason.

You insist on stories and people and diversity yet landmarks is what you really want.

Enjoy your platitudes

 

[DavidDL]

I’m not speaking for you, but It’s increasingly clear you talk about things that didn’t work in DCA that they left behind for good reason.

You insist on stories and people and diversity yet landmarks is what you really want.

Enjoy

Once again, it’s clear nothing is sinking in for you. It’s interesting how everyone else around you seems to understand what I’m saying even if they disagree and yet you’re the odd one out. If it were everyone else, I’d say there’s an issue with my communication but since it’s just you. Well, you can go ahead and do the math.

Literally nothing you’ve said about “what I want” is fully the direction I’d go for the park. You see me as either black or white in any given situation and never even bother to look into the grey. For whatever reason, you’ve decide to try and single myself and one or two others out because we have disagreements with the direction of DCA.

If you really understood and simply disagreed, you’d let it go. But you can’t even be bothered to do that. No, instead it seems like you see yourself on some sort of crusade in the name of the park and some kind of breach of “fairness” that was never violated to begin with.

It blows my mind, really. Here I am talking about how I wouldn’t do things a certain way and listing other general directions the park could go but am instead met with rebuttals akin to “nope, this is what you want, enjoy”.

You assume because I’d advocate for lands and attractions inspired by the Golden State or Disney IP that can feel at home inside similar themes, that I am suddenly advocating for the cheapest, laziest version of said thing. Why? Because Disney did it that way once back in 2001? You just figure that I’d prefer something like Golden Dreams over Mermaid (even though both technically work within the context of the park and even after I’ve admitted to Mermaid being the better choice of the two). You just assume that even if I did want a show like Golden Dreams, that I’d want something lazy like a video on a screen instead of full blown, audio animatronic show like we’ve got in other parks.

I’m not here to say whether or not Golden Dreams could have worked with some changes but heck, if something like the Carousel of Progress or Hall of Presidents can bring people in, there’s no reason to believe that if Disney put in the time and effort, they couldn’t have done the same for something in DCA.

But frankly, I’ve given you far more explanation than you deserve regarding these matters. At this point it’s obvious to myself and many others that you’re just here to cause chaos for others you disagree with. I have tried to be coherent and civil in the past but as you continue to press on due to an inability to accept others views of the parks, it has become clear to me that you are either a) incapable of understanding or b) a professional troll.

In either case, congratulations on being the very first addition to my ignore list.

 

[ToTBellHop]

DCA has far more going for it, but I enjoy both.