Cmdr_Crimson
Well-Known Member
Nope..That is not me..I just posted it as I recalled seeing this a while back..
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Brown pavement in Liberty Square
- Thread starter LittleBuford
- Start date
_caleb
Well-Known Member
In Colonial Williamsburg, cobblestone gutters are on the sides of the road, not down the middle.
But in Philadelphia, Elfreth‘s Alley has the cobblestone strip down the center (possibly a modern change to accommodate automobile traffic):
I imagine these may have served as inspiration for Liberty Square.
But in Philadelphia, Elfreth‘s Alley has the cobblestone strip down the center (possibly a modern change to accommodate automobile traffic):
I imagine these may have served as inspiration for Liberty Square.
One of the Imagineers responsible gave a more practical explanation for why they limited the cobblestones to a strip:
I just found this—after creating the thread, of course!—and it basically solves the mystery (read the full conversation):
So it seems the brown concrete (together with the legend that accompanies it) dates no earlier than than the 2000s.
ETA: For those who don’t read to the bottom of the conversation, here’s what the retired Imagineer Donald Holmquist, Liberty Square’s design developer, had to say when asked about it:
ETA: I wouldn't take that street in Colonial Williamsburg as representative of much, since the asphalt running down the middle of road is clearly modern.
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CntrlFlPete
Well-Known Member
a t-shirt is not a flag though, it may have the image of the flag -- I feel this is more about actual flags especially since one might cut it up to get it more fitted -- anyway, I feel that is more about respecting an actual flag meant for flying.
JoeCamel
Well-Known Member
The flags are not period correct, they have deliberate omissions and additions, a stripe here a few stars there, they look good that far away
I used to this think this too based on what I'd read and heard, but when I went looking for pictures, I was surprised to find that at least the more prominent flags on Main Street do have the correct number of stars and stripes—45 and 13 (yep, I counted to be sure!):
Flags at Walt Disney World - part 1 American Flags of Main Street U.S.A.
The theme of Main Street U.S.A. in Walt Disney Worlds Magic Kingdom could possibly summed up in one word Americana, there are many Red, White and Blue touches, for much of the year there is Red white and blue bunting in many places including at the train station (though nowadays it is…
bigbrian-nc.livejournal.com
Perhaps the smaller, less distinct flags are the fake ones we always hear about, but the larger ones are true to their time period.
Good point!
JoeCamel
Well-Known Member
Are the stripes in the right order?I used to this think this too based on what I'd read and heard, but when I went looking for pictures, I was surprised to find that at least the more prominent flags on Main Street do have the correct number of stars and stripes—45 and 13 (yep, I counted to be sure!):
Flags at Walt Disney World - part 1 American Flags of Main Street U.S.A.
The theme of Main Street U.S.A. in Walt Disney Worlds Magic Kingdom could possibly summed up in one word Americana, there are many Red, White and Blue touches, for much of the year there is Red white and blue bunting in many places including at the train station (though nowadays it is…
Perhaps the smaller, less distinct flags are the fake ones we always hear about, but the larger ones are true to their time period.
That flag has an actual halyard and pulleys maybe it is lowered?
With how patriotic Disney wants to seem I doubt they would be lying about the flags
I took this to be a joke when you first posted it (hence my reaction, which I've since removed), but then you added the sentences quoted below. I'm not sure how to answer this if you mean it seriously! You can compare the pictures I shared with the following:
I don't know the answer to these either. The photos show that at least some of the flags on Main Street are authentic to their period, with 45 stars and 13 stripes. As far as I know, those flags are never lowered (though I'd welcome a correction if I'm wrong). Perhaps Disney is interpreting the Flag Code as applying only to the current US flag, which is what many people believe anyway.
Disstevefan1
Well-Known Member
The flags are made “wrong” on purpose so they can don’t have to follow all the flag rules for real US flags.
If you look at my subsequent posts (specifically the Tweets I share), you'll find the solution to the mystery. It seems the "river of poop" was a later idea, introduced in the 1990s and retconned into the land's history. It replaced the rather more charming cobblestone strip that originally graced the walkways.
The ones in the photographs are accurate for their period, though. Some interpret the Flag Code as applying to all versions of the US flag, including historical ones. Whether that's actually the case or not I don't know.
This video summarises the situation nicely (I've never heard of this channel before, so I can't speak to its overall quality):
ETA: It's actually the same channel shared above by @Cmdr_Crimson!
ETA: It's actually the same channel shared above by @Cmdr_Crimson!
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Heppenheimer
Well-Known Member
BTW, when did the Disney World fife and drum corps go away? I remember seeing them as a young kid, never on our later trips.It came up yesterday in a thread about Splash Mountain that the brown pavement running through Liberty Square is a reference to the sewage that would have filled the streets back in colonial times. The claim that this feature is a “river of poop” is repeated again and again online and can be found also in some more recent (unofficial) publications about Walt Disney World. In my quest to find an older and/or more authoritative source, however, I drew a blank. To complicate matters further, photos of Liberty Square from the 1970s and ’80s show a grey cobblestone/flagstone pavement where today’s supposed “river of poop” flows:
Does anyone know when and where the “river of poop” idea originated? Has Disney itself ever commented on it?
No idea! I don’t recall seeing them during any of my visits (going back to 1991).
graphite1326
Well-Known Member
I took the "Keys to the KIngdom Tour" back about 10 years ago and the guide told us that it represented what was thrown out the windows in the morning. So I would say it is more urine than poop.It came up yesterday in a thread about Splash Mountain that the brown pavement running through Liberty Square is a reference to the sewage that would have filled the streets back in colonial times. The claim that this feature is a “river of poop” is repeated again and again online and can be found also in some more recent (unofficial) publications about Walt Disney World. In my quest to find an older and/or more authoritative source, however, I drew a blank. To complicate matters further, photos of Liberty Square from the 1970s and ’80s show a grey cobblestone/flagstone pavement where today’s supposed “river of poop” flows:
Does anyone know when and where the “river of poop” idea originated? Has Disney itself ever commented on it?
I need to edit my first post to reflect the information I found out subsequently! (You'll see what I mean if you look at my follow-up posts.)
graphite1326
Well-Known Member
Not to get too far off topic but my son came home from school one day telling me that he learned that the invention of the women's high heels was from not wanting their dress dragging in the sewage. Not sure it it's true but that is what he brought home.
This feels apocryphal to me given that the fashion for high heels began with men. Moreover, depending on the period, women's dresses often dragged on the ground even after they started wearing heels.
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graphite1326
Well-Known Member
I didn't say it was true just what his teacher told him.