Breaking Points

[DrAlice]

Genie+, aka Obvious FP Cash Grab, will be debuting at the DLR. How many of you have no problems spending more money on this? How many of you have been upset and/or complaining about this change, but will still be giving the parks your money? Is anyone now closer to their breaking point after Disney made the announcement?

For me, the devil is in the details. I don't mind paying the $20, as this is similar to MaxPass, IF the experience is similar. If there are key rides missing from that list and my choice is to wait in a 2 hour line or pony up serious cash for those, then I will certainly be rethinking future trips to the parks. Also, I'm waiting to see what this does to the park experience as a whole. It's hard to make a judgement without seeing it in practice.

It's really tough. I've been a pretty big fan of the parks most of my life. We've made some great family memories there. It's been a bit of a tradition to go once a year or once every other year. Because we don't go very often, we can justify some extra spending. Time will tell whether or not this current plan is worth the extra cash. When thinking about spending and vacations I'm reminded that our most expensive family vacation so far was our trip to Maui. And you know what? If you ask my kid what her favorite place on the planet is, she doesn't say Disneyland. She says Maui. So.......

 

[Californian Elitist]

For me, the devil is in the details. I don't mind paying the $20, as this is similar to MaxPass, IF the experience is similar. If there are key rides missing from that list and my choice is to wait in a 2 hour line or pony up serious cash for those, then I will certainly be rethinking future trips to the parks. Also, I'm waiting to see what this does to the park experience as a whole. It's hard to make a judgement without seeing it in practice.

It's really tough. I've been a pretty big fan of the parks most of my life. We've made some great family memories there. It's been a bit of a tradition to go once a year or once every other year. Because we don't go very often, we can justify some extra spending. Time will tell whether or not this current plan is worth the extra cash. When thinking about spending and vacations I'm reminded that our most expensive family vacation so far was our trip to Maui. And you know what? If you ask my kid what her favorite place on the planet is, she doesn't say Disneyland. She says Maui. So.......

I hear you. If the price was $20 for ALL rides that offer the previous FP option with the ability to book however many you want at once, then this would sting less. But it’s not like this at all. You can only book one ride at a time, and that’s subject to availability. Not to mention having to pay extra for specific rides, also subject to availability, and the surcharge will be based on crowds and days of the week, so guests will undeniably pay more money on certain days. And if it’s not available, there goes your money. Not to mention it’s $20 per guest, per day. I don’t have kids, but even if I was willing to spend money on this, I can’t fathom spending an extra $50+ per trip just so I can POSSIBLY skip some standby queues. I can only imagine what it’s like for families.

 

[John park hopper]

I hear you. If the price was $20 for ALL rides that offer the previous FP option with the ability to book however many you want at once, then this would sting less. But it’s not like this at all. You can only book one ride at a time, and that’s subject to availability. Not to mention having to pay extra for specific rides, also subject to availability, and the surcharge will be based on crowds and days of the week, so guests will undeniably pay more money on certain days. And if it’s not available, there goes your money. Not to mention it’s $20 per guest, per day. I don’t have kids, but even if I was willing to spend money on this, I can’t fathom spending an extra $50+ per trip just so I can POSSIBLY skip some standby queues. I can only imagine what it’s like for families.

You know as well as I do the price will go up in a matter of months. Correct me if I'm wrong it was like 6 months and they increased the resort parking fee. Disney usually has 1 or 2 park ticket price increases per year.

 

[PiratesMansion]

I think that the complaints about Genie are legitimate, but I can't say I'm surprised or that it's a breaking point for me personally.

Why? Every other theme park company out there has charged for their equivalent of FastPass for some time. If Disney runs things properly (and I realize that is a bigger if than it should be), it should actually benefit guests in the standby line, as less people will be in the (equivalent of the) FP line. I was already using and loving MaxPass, and this isn't that different. And frankly? $20/day is pocket change compared to the pricing for the equivalents at other parks. I've spent well over $100/day to do the same thing at many other parks.

The only thing I dislike is the a la carte option, as that is a genuine downgrade from MaxPass. But charging extra for the newest/most popular attractions isn't really new or unheard of either, though other parks don't typically limit the number of rides on the "premium" attractions. And WDW has been tiering attractions in its parks via FP+ since 2014, so perhaps the writing was always on the wall. The tiering in this particular way probably won't affect me much, though, unless ROTR blows me away, which I'm not expecting.

 

[D.Silentu]

The big question for me is how much this fundamentally alters the flow of my day at Disneyland. All of my life going to Disneyland was a 'sky's the limit' type of experience. Then came mandatory reservations to see shows. Then reservations to experience the newest rides. Now being directed by a scheduling app is supposedly going to be the efficient way to spend time at the park. This bothers me because planning your time efficiently has been migrating from a wise course of action to an absolute necessity even before the announcement of Genie. I'm missing the whimsey of feeling like a fantastic world is at my fingertips when I step up to that train station. Facing surcharges built upon surcharges sure doesn't help either.

 

[Californian Elitist]

I think that the complaints about Genie are legitimate, but I can't say I'm surprised or that it's a breaking point for me personally.

Why? Every other theme park company out there has charged for their equivalent of FastPass for some time. If Disney runs things properly (and I realize that is a bigger if than it should be), it should actually benefit guests in the standby line, as less people will be in the (equivalent of the) FP line. I was already using and loving MaxPass, and this isn't that different. And frankly? $20/day is pocket change compared to the pricing for the equivalents at other parks. I've spent well over $100/day to do the same thing at other many other parks.

The only thing I dislike is the a la carte option, as that is a genuine downgrade from MaxPass. But charging extra for the newest/most popular attractions isn't really new or unheard of either, though other parks don't typically limit the number of rides on the "premium" attractions. And WDW has been tiering attractions in its parks via FP+ since 2014, so perhaps the writing was always on the wall. The tiering in this particular way probably won't affect me much, though, unless ROTR blows me away, which I'm not expecting.

Not sure about others, but at Universal, the Express Pass is more expensive, but it’s guaranteed faster admission into every single attraction, unless an attraction is closed. Nothing is guaranteed for Genie+, which is frustrating to me, even though it’s cheaper.

 

[DrAlice]

Not sure about others, but at Universal, the Express Pass is more expensive, but it’s guaranteed faster admission into every single attraction, unless an attraction is closed. Nothing is guaranteed for Genie+, which is frustrating to me, even though it’s cheaper.

At LegoLand it was something like $30/person for the lowest tier pass. It covered the most popular rides only. Like MaxPass, you showed up when it told you it was ok to board. We really liked it. Keep in mind, we had discount tickets to enter the park (SoCal Pass) and most LegoLand rides are NOT worth a significant wait. For a little bump up to the ticket price, it was well worth it. Also, very few use it. We did not use it during our last trip and regretted it (Ninjago is so not worth an hour wait in the sun... the things you do for your kids.).

 

[Californian Elitist]

At LegoLand it was something like $30/person for the lowest tier pass. It covered the most popular rides only. Like MaxPass, you showed up when it told you it was ok to board. We really liked it. Keep in mind, we had discount tickets to enter the park (SoCal Pass) and most LegoLand rides are NOT worth a significant wait. For a little bump up to the ticket price, it was well worth it. Also, very few use it. We did not use it during our last trip and regretted it (Ninjago is so not worth an hour wait in the sun... the things you do for your kids.).

This sounds like much better deal. One price for a bundle of rides.

 

[PiratesMansion]

Not sure about others, but at Universal, the Express Pass is more expensive, but it’s guaranteed faster admission into every single attraction, unless an attraction is closed. Nothing is guaranteed for Genie+, which is frustrating to me, even though it’s cheaper.

True, but seeing how Disney has managed FP+ and other similar revenue streams, I imagine they will make sure that the guests paying for the upcharge are satisfied.

Not sure about those who don't splurge, but I imagine those who pay will be taken care of.

Faster admission onto every attraction sounds nice, but that's basically what happened with FP+ at WDW and I thought it was a cluster in which anyone who didn't have a FP was doomed to glacial queues while those in the FP line power walked right by the plebs in standby. If they keep the roster of attractions they do now, or even get rid of a few that don't need the line skip (i.e. Buzz and Monsters), it's probably pretty close to optimal utilization of attractions.

I admit I haven't been following all of this as closely as many here, but isn't Genie basically the same as MaxPass other than the a la carte tier? If so, I would imagine what is and is not guaranteed is pretty similar to how things were with MaxPass.

 

[Too Many Hats]

The big question for me is how much this fundamentally alters the flow of my day at Disneyland. All of my life going to Disneyland was a 'sky's the limit' type of experience. Then came mandatory reservations to see shows. Then reservations to experience the newest rides. Now being directed by a scheduling app is supposedly going to be the efficient way to spend time at the park. This bothers me because planning your time efficiently has been migrating from a wise course of action to an absolute necessity even before the announcement of Genie. I'm missing the whimsey of feeling like a fantastic world is at my fingertips when I step up to that train station. Facing surcharges built upon surcharges sure doesn't help either.

You've summed it up perfectly. These new systems just do not jibe with how I prefer to experience Disneyland. And I can't speak for anyone else, but for me they are potentially an enormous disincentive from visiting. We'll have to wait and see the impact of the Magic Keys and Genie/LL, but there's reason to believe they could systematically eliminate most spontaneity from the experience.

 

[KikoKea]

I do not like the idea of paying per ride or taking my chance with bp lottery for the more popular rides. The lottery is unacceptable because every ride should be available to everyone, not just a lucky few. DH & I are not spring chickens anymore, so standing in line for hours is out, but the money grab to enjoy a ride after paying admission doesn't sit well.

We have tickets for an OogieBoogie party in Sept, and are considering one of the new APs for DL, but with the new Genie and Genie+, we are rethinking. We shall have to see how it works, first.

 

[Sailor310]

I've had APs for years and don't really have to ever go on any ride, this time, if the line is too long. It just dawned on me, however, that if I'm tour-guiding once-a-decade family members the genie and genie + would be very useful.

 

[BrianLo]

I admit I haven't been following all of this as closely as many here, but isn't Genie basically the same as MaxPass other than the a la carte tier? If so, I would imagine what is and is not guaranteed is pretty similar to how things were with MaxPass.

It is essentially MaxPass, setting aside the a la carte tier.

I think the trade-off is if you were not one who previously chose MaxPass, standby *might* be better. However, you also have no free FP option truly relegating you to the bottom class.

For those who already were MaxPass converts (several of us I'm sure), it's theoretically better as there is no free tier that is also eating into the FP allocation. Surely less people will use it, because it is not free. Unless Disney operationally reduces the amount they allocate to LL versus the FP era, which I kind of doubt they will, using Genie+ might be even easier than MaxPass.

Therefore, I propose that for MaxPass Users this is Better and for Free FP users this is worse.


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Putting that aside looking at a la carte;

There is definitely a difference at play surrounding WDW, where you lose out on 8 overall attractions. For DLR, we're really just losing out on Radiator Springs Racers and whatever the second DL choice is. Accounting for the MaxPass era: Rise and SpiderMan were never available to begin with. Plus Millennium Falcon I think will have Lightening Lane, which was not available yet to MaxPass.

So again this isn't a huge loss to MaxPass users, *yet*. The math on WDW gets quite fuzzy.

Where this falls apart though is if Disney gets too greedy and expands a la carte beyond two per park. Which seems possible, if not probable.

 

[SoCalDisneyLover]

Genie+, aka Obvious FP Cash Grab, will be debuting at the DLR. How many of you have no problems spending more money on this? How many of you have been upset and/or complaining about this change, but will still be giving the parks your money? Is anyone now closer to their breaking point after Disney made the announcement?

There is no way I'll pay $20/visit, just like there was no way I'd pay full price for a ticket to visit these past 4 months.

I did pay $100 to add Maxpass on to my Flex Pass back in 2019, and would probably pay to do the same again, if/when it's offered as an add on to the keys. But I expect that it may be as much as $200 if that happens, although hopefully not, and it won't offer the lightening lane rides, which were under the previous Maxpass system.

Doubt I'll be paying extra for those lightning lane attractions, and will just find other rides to go on if their stand by waits are too long.

 

[SoCalDisneyLover]

It seems there are overwhelmingly negative responses to this all around, even outside Disney fandom. Many non themepark going friends and family of mine contacted me to ask my thoughts on this or to express their outrage.

Personally I know we aren't buying a "magic key" until reservations go away, entertainment comes back, and the trams return.

I don't think all the entertainment like Fantasmic/World Of Color will be back until after the start of 2022, and who knows how long they'll prolong "The Great Tram Walk."

But you can take one thing to the bank, Reservations are not going anywhere. The entire new Key system revolves around them, and they're here to stay, because Disney like the extra ability to control the crowds on a daily and ongoing basis. If reservations truly are a deal breaker, you will never be a keyholder.

 

[el_super]

I think that the complaints about Genie are legitimate, but I can't say I'm surprised or that it's a breaking point for me personally.

I wouldn't consider Genie a breaking point for me personally. If there ever was such a thing as a breaking point for me, it would have occurred a long time ago when the place just got way too crowded for me. I've been on Pirates and Mansion enough times in my life that I really don't feel the need to go on them, or really any specific attractions if the lines are too long. What I do want and need from Disneyland though, is that laid back park atmosphere that has been missing for a decade or more now.

My hope was that the talk of reducing the crowds, and keeping admissions in check was that they could re-engineer the park experience as a whole: reduce the crowding in the walkways, free up the benches and tables at the restaurants, even keep the lines at the bathrooms down.

We have to wait and see what happens with Genie I guess. If the lack of Fastpass keeps people confined into attractions queues, maybe the nice quiet Disneyland will return. My feeling though is that by keeping the entrance admissions relatively low (and introducing the Key Holders), they would rather reap the benefits of keeping the park packed with people, and preventing access to the attractions themselves. That would just mean it's going to be harder to find an open bench.

 

[Sailor310]

I wouldn't consider Genie a breaking point for me personally. If there ever was such a thing as a breaking point for me, it would have occurred a long time ago when the place just got way too crowded for me. I've been on Pirates and Mansion enough times in my life that I really don't feel the need to go on them, or really any specific attractions if the lines are too long. What I do want and need from Disneyland though, is that laid back park atmosphere that has been missing for a decade or more now.

My hope was that the talk of reducing the crowds, and keeping admissions in check was that they could re-engineer the park experience as a whole: reduce the crowding in the walkways, free up the benches and tables at the restaurants, even keep the lines at the bathrooms down.

We have to wait and see what happens with Genie I guess. If the lack of Fastpass keeps people confined into attractions queues, maybe the nice quiet Disneyland will return. My feeling though is that by keeping the entrance admissions relatively low (and introducing the Key Holders), they would rather reap the benefits of keeping the park packed with people, and preventing access to the attractions themselves. That would just mean it's going to be harder to find an open bench.

I share your feelings. At this point, I'd be happy with a couple of Grand Circle Tours on the train and a dole whip at the Tropical Hideaway.
My plan is to buy a pass early and maybe enjoy a few light days at the park before everyone jumps on and it becomes crazy again.

 

[truecoat]

I share your feelings. At this point, I'd be happy with a couple of Grand Circle Tours on the train and a dole whip at the Tropical Hideaway.
My plan is to buy a pass early and maybe enjoy a few light days at the park before everyone jumps on and it becomes crazy again.

And when that Tropical Hideaway line is really long, you can bypass it for $4.95. Coming soon to the Diaper Genie+.

 

[trylon57]

Don't hold back now. Tell us what you really think.

I'm close to the breaking point. Were giving it another chance; 7 trips to Disneyland, 21 visits to WDW. If we don't like it, we don't go back. Plenty of other places we can spend our vacation money on. My wife and I both had well paying jobs, and we don't have children.We are in the position to do what ever we want. 28 trips to Disney Parks so if it loses its charms it will lose us as customers. I enjoy going to Disney Parks but if they're not as good anymore, well, it was nice while lasted.

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

Of our upcoming Florida trip, we are spending 1/3 of our time at Universal. After this, no WDW for awhile. With all my work miles, we will go other places for several years.