Breaking Points

[EPCOTCenterLover]

A Chinese mother had me take a picture with her kids at the Great Wall. I thought she wanted me to take a picture for her but then she put her kids in right next to me. I was also over there with a black dude with dreads who was a huge attraction on the street for people.

I’ve had a variation of this several times in places where few Americans are seen. Not a photograph necessarily taken but requests to practice English with me. Kind of an honor really, when you think about it.

 

[WEDfan9798]

There's also an inherent decrease in quality with the newer offerings- The '50s gave us the Matterhorn, Monorail, and Submarine Voyage. The '60s gave us New Orleans Square with Pirates and Mansion and New Tomorrowland. The '70s? Big Thunder and Space Mountain. The '80s? Captain Eo and Star Tours and Splash Mountain and New Fantasyland. The '90s? Fantasmic and Indiana Jones Adventure.

It wasn't until the late '90s that new Disneyland additions actually started to really disappoint the majority of the fanbase with Tomorrowland '98. People lament the loss of the Mine Train- but Big Thunder is as classic as they come. People lament the loss of the Peoplemover, but Rocket rods was closed after a year or two and never really lived up to the hype.

The 2000s were damage control- fixing what had been broken and working on recapturing the magic of vintage Disneyland with the '50th.

The 2010s continued this until late 2015 when they announced Galaxy's Edge and the whole company did a complete 180 on how they approach Disneyland. Which didn't seem to please Disneyland fans or Star Wars fans- it's one of those 'while that was cool I guess' lands that people don't typically want to go back to.

I was genuinely excited for Disneyland going into 2020- both Mansion and Indiana Jones Adventure had refurbishments announced. Snow White, the weakest of the Fantasyland dark rides, was getting the chance at finally being fixed. Tomorrowland's Entrance was going back to a design reminiscent of the '67 version. It looked like the park was starting to course correct after Galaxy's Edge. Covid seems to have derailed that entirely- and 2020 ended up being a very different year for the park with the announced closure of Splash Mountain and a variety of other changes. That Disney now views the work of Marc Davis and Walt Disney and Tony Baxter as 'problematic' and 'negative' is terrifying since it means nothing is safe. Benign elements of Disneyland that have remained the same for decades are now in danger of being altered or outright removed while areas of the park like Tomorrowland that desperately need a creative revival sit and rot.

The assertion that nothing has changed- it's business as usual at WDI and we're just out of touch and that the park is now being catered to 20 year olds is asinine and a vast oversimplification of what's happening at Disneyland.

It's very sad

 

[WEDfan9798]

I agree with this take, if the new stuff was as good as the old stuff getting replaced and changed then Disneyland fans wouldn't fear change so much. However, pretty much every replacement is worse than whatever came before. Classic WDI would have never approved anything as atrociously poor as the "ten for a hen" auction scene.

The reason Disneyland fans hate change is because the changes are almost always of extremely poor quality.

You're right...

 

[WEDfan9798]

If Disneyland ever permanently removes/re-themes Pirates or Haunted Mansion, I would be very hard-pressed to find a desire to go.

As others have said, the slow decaying of Disney's standards and overall quality has really been felt in a tremendous way.
My wife and I purchased APs back in 2017 and we loved the ability to go on a whim or stop in for "dinner and Pirates" on a Friday night, but sadly those days are gone.

For me, the most obvious grievance is that Disney continues to prove that they have no interest in preserving their own history. Decisions are made these days based on short-term gain, and making low-hanging "progressive" changes, that they think are going to earn them some points with the social media community.

Modern day Disney is "made for the moment". Meaning, nothing is being done with longevity in mind, because everything now is designed to be fluid and interchangeable. And yes, I'm fully aware Walt changed stuff in his day, but even then, his changes were not based on passing trends and social media whimsy. And he certainly valued original creativity over IP inclusion.

I'm probably paraphrasing others on here, but everything that has come out of the Parks since "The Bobs" took over has felt like it was designed by a paid focus group rather than a team of creative individuals. (I do still believe there is creativity to be found in WDI, but it's been so tamped down by budget cuts that its very hard to even notice.)

There is still beauty and charm to be found at the Parks if you know where to look, but never before have we had to live under a regime where everything, literally everything, feels like its just one bad decision away from being erased forever.

Exactly

 

[WEDfan9798]

My breaking point was a few years ago when we finally decided not to renew our APs...ironically because there were too many APs and and parks were incredibly overcrowded. I can't say that anything they've done with regards to Pixar Pier, Galaxy's Edge (I loathe the boarding pass system) or Avengers Campus have done anything to negatively effect my experience being at the parks though. While things like PP weren't necessary, the ride experiences really haven't changed and I actually prefer the GOTG experience over TOT.

I am a bit disappointed by the overcorrection Disney is making on some attractions and as mickEblu stated above, some of the inclusion things. There is a middle ground, Disney doesn't seem to want to go there though. I'm also not a fan of technology taking over everything. I don't want to have to be on my phone constantly to get a fastpass, join virtual queue, secure boarding pass and especially to order food and then have to wait a couple hours to eat.

The reality is that having gone to DL since the early 70's, I've had to experience the loss of many cherished attractions like Adventure Thru Innerspace, Mine Train, Peoplemover, Circlevision, Skyway, America Sings...all things I loved and miss but those losses did not kill my enthusiasm in any way. It really came down to just feeling Disneyland became a hangout for so many (aka a giant AP population) vs a special place to visit and that took away that feeling of anticipation and Disney magic I had experienced most of my life. Bottom line, going to Disneyland became a chore...

I can tell you're a very reasonable person and that we'd get along well.

 

[Rich T]

If their changes are almost always poor quality, why has there been no financial impact over the course of the last 10, 20 or 30 years?

Their business is growing because they are offering a product people want. It's just as simple as that.

It’s never as simple as that. Disneyland is still popular because it retains enough classic, memorable attractions—and its original design foundation is so strong—that it has been able to withstand many crap-tastic changes.

Do you really think that, given a choice between a Penny Arcade full of wonderous mechanical marvels and a Penny Arcade that simply sells candy that most people would pick the candy store?

Do you think they’d pick the Spiderbot Toy Commercial With DLC over a better Spiderman ride? Or NOTHING over a Peoplemover?

Disney’s recent greedy stewards have been coasting for quite a while on generations worth of good will built up by the work and creativity of brilliant past artists and decision-makers. The good will is eroding, the prices keep rising and the quality of experience keeps dropping.

Maybe someday Disney will manage to turn DLR into a “magical” dreamworld of shops, casinos, carnival rides and cheap, screen-based new attractions based on their latest acquisition... let’s say... The WWE. Yeah, now the WWE is part of the Disney family and DLR now feels like a cross between Space Jam 2 and Ready Player One. There will be an audience for that, I’m sure, but the people who loved what DL once stood for won’t be there. And there’ll always be people defending the corporation’s every move, convinced that the magic of Disney is alive and well as long as they can wave to a college student in a mouse costume and pay eight bucks for a cupcake.

 

[Inspired Figment]

It’s never as simple as that. Disneyland is still popular because it retains enough classic, memorable attractions—and its original design foundation is so strong—that it has been able to withstand many crap-tastic changes.

Do you really think that, given a choice between a Penny Arcade full of wonderous mechanical marvels and a Penny Arcade that simply sells candy that most people would pick the candy store?

Do you think they’d pick the Spiderbot Toy Commercial With DLC over a better Spiderman ride? Or NOTHING over a Peoplemover?

Disney’s recent greedy stewards have been coasting for quite a while on generations worth of good will built up by the work and creativity of brilliant past artists and decision-makers. The good will is eroding, the prices keep rising and the quality of experience keeps dropping.

Maybe someday Disney will manage to turn DLR into a “magical” dreamworld of shops, casinos, carnival rides and a cheap, screen-based new attractions based on their latest acquisition... let’s say... The WWE. Yeah, now the WWE is part of the Disney family and DLR now feels like a cross between Space Jam 2 and Ready Player One. There will be an audience for that, I’m sure, but the people who loved what DL once stood for won’t be there. And there’ll always be people defending the corporation’s every move, convinced that the magic of Disney is alive and well as long as they can wave to a college student in a mouse costume and pay eight bucks for a cupcake.

While there may be people supporting them still after that, I can sincerely say, I don’t think there’d be enough supporting them if they went through with all that, nor do I think their business model would last long.

 

[Stevek]

If it gives you any hope for the future, I was listening to a Podcast and the person had a conversation (not on the actual podcast) with Potrock and his statement was "the days of packing as many people we can into this park are over".

Take it for what it's worth...could ultimately mean that this is reference to the AP program being significantly scaled back as we've been led to believe or ticket prices will go up even more....or both.

 

[SplashGhost]

If it gives you any hope for the future, I was listening to a Podcast and the person had a conversation (not on the actual podcast) with Potrock and his statement was "the days of packing as many people we can into this park are over".

Take it for what it's worth...could ultimately mean that this is reference to the AP program being significantly scaled back as we've been led to believe or ticket prices will go up even more....or both.

I was there last Saturday and they were definitely trying to pack almost as many people into the park as they could. It was one of the busiest days that I have ever seen at the park. Of course, their current business model won't sustain them having those crowds for that long, but a lot of locals are getting the 3 day discount tickets and treating them like a limited use AP.

 

[josh2000]

I have no desire to visit WDW or any other Disney park around the world.

I've visited WDW more times than I can remember, I was a semi-local for a good few years in my childhood. I can safely say that it has never invoked the kind of feelings that Disneyland does for me. It just doesn't stack up.

 

[Californian Elitist]

I've visited WDW more times than I can remember, I was a semi-local for a good few years in my childhood. I can safely say that it has never invoked the kind of feelings that Disneyland does for me. It just doesn't stack up.

I assume I’ll get there at some point. That would require a Florida trip and there’s no way I’d travel to Florida right now. It’ll happen when it happens though and I’ll share my thoughts here, if I’m still active when I go.

Currently, I’m in no mood to go to any Disney park, including the one that’s just 35 minutes from my house and that I adore. It’s a shame, but oh well.

 

[dovetail65]

I've visited WDW more times than I can remember, I was a semi-local for a good few years in my childhood. I can safely say that it has never invoked the kind of feelings that Disneyland does for me. It just doesn't stack up.

So weird just the opposite for me. I went to both as a child many, many times. I'll never forget being at the Disneyland hotel and at 2 am dad screaming it's an earthquake! It was nothing more than a tremor, but being from Chicago and a child it seemed such a huge thing.

Still for me, Disney land as far as emoting feelings is nothing more than what a Six Flags make me feel. I can never understand how anyone can even compare Disneyland to WDW. It is a different animal altogether and the 42 Sq miles of WDW for me is an entire happy world.

Different strokes for different folks as they say.

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

I’ve been to all the Western Hemisphere parks. Each one evokes “the feels” for me. Guess I'm odd.

 

[J2B]

I think I can speak for a few of us when I say we’ve been pretty disappointed with how the DLR has been managed over the years. Pirates’ auction scene change, Pixar Pier, Guardians, Splash, lack of quality with Avengers Campus, SW:GE (I’m aware I’m in the minority here), etc. And now there’s a rumor that DLP’s Premiere Pass thingy may be coming here, which is gross.

I realized that I hit my breaking point a few years ago. By that, I mean I’ve scaled back my visits significantly and have prioritized doing other things. I went once in 2020 and before that, I went once or twice in 2019, and now I currently have no desire to return anytime soon, not even next year. A breaking point doesn’t have to equate to never returning again, though if that Premiere stuff comes here, I for sure won’t be returning on my own will for a long time. A breaking point in this case could mean a significant change in how frequently you visit the parks due to whatever disappointment you have with the parks.

To those who have been disappointed and have yet to hit their breaking point, what will it take for that to happen? Or maybe nothing will get you to scale back your visits.

Share your thoughts.

Overflowing trash cans and filthy bathrooms. Overpriced-onsite-hotels. Mobile ordering.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Overflowing trash cans and filthy bathrooms. Overpriced-onsite-hotels. Mobile ordering.

So I guess you’ve hit your breaking point then.

 

[J2B]

So I guess you’ve hit your breaking point then.

I think so, yes.

 

[Stevek]

I’ve been to all the Western Hemisphere parks. Each one evokes “the feels” for me. Guess I'm odd.

Yep, I still get the feels going to Disneyland or WDW. Really looking forward to our December trip to the latter.

 

[Sailor310]

I went to DTD Thursday. Not too crowded. It was hot. I realized I have no emotional connection with DTD.
I'm embarrassed to say that looking into DCA through the breezeway at the Grand Californian, my eyes got a little misty.
I'll got back to the parks when things get more settled and less crowded. Twice a year might be plenty.

 

[KikoKea]

WDW has been our main park (with APs for the past years), but we are taking a break from WDW due to dislike of the crowding, lines, stale rides, etc, but we are still planning our Christmas visit to DL this year.

But, if we find crowds and line waits make our experience not enjoyable, we won't be coming back to DL for a while. That's our breaking point for DL.....no matter how much I love the chicken at the Plaza.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Genie+, aka Obvious FP Cash Grab, will be debuting at the DLR. How many of you have no problems spending more money on this? How many of you have been upset and/or complaining about this change, but will still be giving the parks your money? Is anyone now closer to their breaking point after Disney made the announcement?