Breaking News! Union Vote Is In!

[brich]

All well and good, provided a person doesn't have to live on such wages... much less raise a family.

This is one issue I've seen within a few threads on this topic of wages. I'm going to ask this as a serious question so as not to insult anyone. If you cannot provide for your self OR your family on what Disney is paying you, why is it entirely Disney's obligation to change that and why can't a Disney employee who is struggling financially as a direct result of Disney's low wages not seek employment elsewhere so that they CAN provide for themselves and their families. I do agree that Disney grossly under pays their employees, especially in relation to what it costs me to go there and given the magnificent high quality service I receive when there by Disney employees. Sorry, I just don't get it... :veryconfu

 

[Stitch79]

This is one issue I've seen within a few threads on this topic of wages. I'm going to ask this as a serious question so as not to insult anyone. If you cannot provide for your self OR your family on what Disney is paying you, why is it entirely Disney's obligation to change that and why can't a Disney employee who is struggling financially as a direct result of Disney's low wages not seek employment elsewhere so that they CAN provide for themselves and their families. I do agree that Disney grossly under pays their employees, especially in relation to what it costs me to go there and given the magnificent high quality service I receive when there by Disney employees. Sorry, I just don't get it... :veryconfu

I agree completely! If someone cannot meet their financial needs while working at Disney it is time to find a new or second job to supplement their income.

 

[speck76]

yet, if the bathrooms aren't clean, the others arent needed cuz no one would come to disney. this comment was, of no contribution to the fourm except to critisize those who do your dirty work

(of course, she did not sign her name)

See, that is a major problem. Why should those who clean toilets and empty trash cans be held under the same contract as those who are working in a skilled position? Sure, every position is important, but if a toilet is not cleaned, nobody dies.

You just don't get it, do you Kelly? Some jobs, like that of a technician on a pyrotechnic display, require "skill". Cleaning toilets, or selling drinks at an outdoor vending location in Epcot, require no skill at all.....As I had stated, every job is important, but if you do you job wrong Kelly, if someone gets a warm soda and a cold churro....NOBODY DIES! If a fireworks technician on Illuminations makes a mistake, the loss could be much greater.

 

[bhg469]

OY they interviewed a teamster. of cousre he voted it down. i was once a teamster they live to vote down contracts.

 

[Wilt Dasney]

Looking at this, it seems like the biggest problem here is people trying to make a living in positions that can just as easily be filled by high-schoolers, CPs, and part-time employees.

I see both sides of this. When I worked down there, I encountered people who had worked for the company for years running attractions. They had given their heart and soul to the company, and I'm not unsympathetic to their plight.

But the fact is Attractions, Food, Merchandise and the like are (like Brad says) unskilled positions and Disney can pretty much staff those positions with anyone and pay them $h!t. From a business standpoint, it just makes more sense. The long-timers in these positions lack a degree of bargaining power because they are dispensable, from the company's standpoint. Which isn't to say that if every FT person in those jobs walked out, Disney wouldn't have a problem. BUT I would guess that the company could survive and still keep going with a loss of as many as 25% of these people to strike, because they can increase hours on everyone else and go on a hiring spree to get more kids to fill the jobs.

I think the bottom line is this: To all the young people out there--MAKE YOURSELF AS MARKETABLE AS POSSIBLE. LEARN A SKILL. FINISH COLLEGE. If you KNOW that a 16-year-old could do the job you depend on for your bread and butter to your company's satisfaction, you are not safe. It's just a sad truth of business, and the best you can do is to develop your skills to the utmost.

 

[rad_rat]

Most of the posts I've seen tend to overlook the point that the contract was voted down because it was a step backwards. The increase in healthcare payments was not offset by the increase in pay. Forget the overtime argument. The bottom line is that the average worker, working the same amount as the previous year, would see less take home pay. Meanwhile, WDW has upped the cost of admissions, raised what it charges for food and lodging, but cannot support their CM's so that they can at least stay even. Tell me, has Disney's profits for the year "stayed even?"

As the CEO of Costco would say, there's nothing wrong with paying people a decent wage. There's nothing wrong with saying, "You know, I don't have to maximize profits at all costs, especially on the backs of those who work."

And, of course, all of this is added to the fact that the current administration values wealth above work. So the person earning $50,000 from investments pays taxes at a much lower rate than the person earning $50,000 from working. How fair is that? Of course, their answer is that -- although we hate all the garbage we see in the movies and on tv -- the way to combat that is to deregulate and cut the taxes of those who produce movies and tv shows. Boy, that'll make 'em clean up their act! And that'll certainly create more jobs -- NOT! But we musn't stand in the way of Disney providing that 20%+ profit for it's shareholders! Our CM's families might have to starve, but let's not ask our shareholders to give up their flilet mignon and caviar!

I guess this is what you call moral value$.

 

[will_hsv]

So how much do the union workers that are scraping by have to pay in Union dues? And what is the assessment percentage the Union takes out of each check. It seems as though if the union was so concerned about healthcare costs and living wages they would reduce dues/assessments or have a supplemental health care plan for its members. Just so you know I do some part time work with the IATSE and even though I am not a member of the Union money still gets taken out of every check for the union gigs.

Union Heads in my opinion are the same as the Corporate Management that everyone hates so much. It is all about them, no longer is it about the people they used to fight for.

On wages, the market determines what a wage will be. If there are enough people willing to work at a given wage then that is where it will be set. If no one will work for the set wage or there is a great demand for workers then the wages will be adjusted higher. You cannot expect for a company that has a responsibility to stay viable to pay wages consistently above the market threshold.

 

[speck76]

I keep reading the arguement "CM's can't support their families on $6.70 an hour"....who's fault is that?

I personally don't think "toilet cleaner" and "churro vendor" are careers.....yes, they are jobs, but what manager really wants to retain a churro vendor with 20 years of seniority?.....not one with their head in the right place. Unskilled positions are not really around for people to make a career out of, they are around to hire college kids who want a job for extra beer money.

If anyone in an unskilled labor position is complaining that they are being underpaid...how much is enough? How much money is it going to take untill you feel you are getting a good paycheck?

If you are currently earning $6.70 per hour, you make around $13,400 per year. (based on 2000 hours worked).

How much is enough? $20K, $30K?

Should any company be paying $10-$15 per hour for someone who is selling churros? Should they be doing it just because they have a family to support?

We all have a personal responsibility to be able to provide for ourselves. It is wrong to demand that a company "overpays" its workers just so they can support their family....maybe the breadwinner in the family should have made some other choices in their life, and found a career, not just a job.

 

[Sherm00]

I'm not goin ginto particulars, But I wouldlike to see the little guys get something better then little scraps here and there. I mean a whole part of disney is they people that work there, the people that deal directly with the guests. Keep these people happy and you make the guests happier. come on disney give the little guy a break.

 

[Sherm00]

I keep reading the arguement "CM's can't support their families on $6.70 an hour"....who's fault is that?

I personally don't think "toilet cleaner" and "churro vendor" are careers.....yes, they are jobs, but what manager really wants to retain a churro vendor with 20 years of seniority?.....not one with their head in the right place. Unskilled positions are not really around for people to make a career out of, they are around to hire college kids who want a job for extra beer money.

If anyone in an unskilled labor position is complaining that they are being underpaid...how much is enough? How much money is it going to take untill you feel you are getting a good paycheck?

If you are currently earning $6.70 per hour, you make around $13,400 per year. (based on 2000 hours worked).

How much is enough? $20K, $30K?

Should any company be paying $10-$15 per hour for someone who is selling churros? Should they be doing it just because they have a family to support?

We all have a personal responsibility to be able to provide for ourselves. It is wrong to demand that a company "overpays" its workers just so they can support their family....maybe the breadwinner in the family should have made some other choices in their life, and found a career, not just a job.

it's not all about the guy at the churo wagon, it's about ride operators, the people who repair and fix the rides like mechanical and software engineers , to security, cooks, chefs, maintnance, and the guy in the churo wagon. Yes every compnay has little meanial jobs that can be filled with part time help but alot of it compermises quality and service, the basic heart of what disney world is all about. to say that most of the jobs are unskilled is ridicilous. I have seen this in lots of companies, they want you to work more hours with less pay and our government will give them tax incentives for moving jobs out of the US. Most companies in the us are closing and moving jobs oversees. before you know it the only job left will be behind the churro wagon (thanks mr bush). and how can you critisize why someone choose the path they did. so your saying some one has to be misrible in a job that pays more then be happy in a job they like. besaides even if tey go to school for a better career it dosn't mean they will be able to find a job. Some people have families and need to stay in a certian area for one reason or another and can't land a job in there field, so how do they live? now with most skilled jobes moving to india it's even tougher, and they are not asking to make 30 to 40 thousand behand the churro wagon, all they are looking for is to make enough to support to be comfortible and maybe to advance into the higher paying positions. I think they are aware of the choices they have made.

 

[wannab@dis]

Most companies in the us are closing and moving jobs oversees. before you know it the only job left will be behind the churro wagon (thanks mr bush).

Uhhmm... No. I have no idea where you get "most" but that is wrong.

Speck is exactly on the money with his observations. We are primarily talking about unskilled labor making $6.70 per hour. To assume that Disney or any company is responsible to make sure their employees make a wage the employee feels is fair is ridiculous. If the employee does not feel the wage is fair, then get another job. That seems to be looked on as cold, but I have done it twice in the past 5 years. I wasn't happy with my pay, the company wouldn't pay me more, so I went somewhere else. MY responsibility to support MY family.

 

[speck76]

it's not all about the guy at the churo wagon, it's about ride operators, the people who repair and fix the rides like mechanical and software engineers , to security, cooks, chefs, maintnance, and the guy in the churo wagon. Yes every compnay has little meanial jobs that can be filled with part time help but alot of it compermises quality and service, the basic heart of what disney world is all about. to say that most of the jobs are unskilled is ridicilous. I have seen this in lots of companies, they want you to work more hours with less pay and our government will give them tax incentives for moving jobs out of the US. Most companies in the us are closing and moving jobs oversees. before you know it the only job left will be behind the churro wagon (thanks mr bush). and how can you critisize why someone choose the path they did. so your saying some one has to be misrible in a job that pays more then be happy in a job they like. besaides even if tey go to school for a better career it dosn't mean they will be able to find a job. Some people have families and need to stay in a certian area for one reason or another and can't land a job in there field, so how do they live? now with most skilled jobes moving to india it's even tougher, and they are not asking to make 30 to 40 thousand behand the churro wagon, all they are looking for is to make enough to support to be comfortible and maybe to advance into the higher paying positions. I think they are aware of the choices they have made.

First....you should really learn to express yourself better....it would make reading your points much easier.

You claim that the churro server is not looking to make $30K-$40K, they are just looking to "be comfortable"....well, what is comfortable? You also state that they are looking for job advancement, but a 61 year old, 15 year CM that works in Dinoland (and makes $11.37 per hour as a CM) that was quoted in the Wall Street Journal voted the contract down.....is he looking for advancement, or is he just looking for more money on an entry level position?

You claim some families need to stay in a certain area, and can not get a job in their field. Ok, is that a problem of the employer?

Also, most skilled jobs are not moving to India.....yes, some jobs are going overseas...some, not most.

 

[rad_rat]

Wow! I'm sure you guys voted your "moral values" last week.

Will_hsv posted:

"On wages, the market determines what a wage will be."

What bull$**t! Whenever I see this "the market determines" crap I go ballistic! What is "the market?" Is it some kind of entity which has it's own existence? Is it a living being? No, "the market" does not and cannot exist apart from people. Take away people and there is no market. So, at the bottom, we are not talking about the "market" determining anything. We are talking about people making decisions, decisions which affect the lives and livelihood of other people.

He also wrote:

"You cannot expect for a company that has a responsibility to stay viable to pay wages consistently above the market threshold."

Why the hell not? Again, the "company" you talk about is not some sort of being which exists apart from the community of human beings. I may not expect some "company" to have "responsibility", but I expect people to be responisble, and it is people who make the decisions for the "company." And, suddenly you bring up the viability of the company (again, as if the company is some living being apart from people). So why does the viability of the company require 20% profits? Are you telling me a company cannot be viable on 15%, or 10%, or even 5%? Hell, anything that isn't losing is viable! But you expect CM's to lose. Because your god of "the market" and your idol of "the company" require it?

That is immoral! You put the life of some lifeless "market" and some soulless "company" above the lives of real people. Welcome to the world of Red State America!

 

[Wilt Dasney]

Most companies in the us are closing and moving jobs oversees. before you know it the only job left will be behind the churro wagon (thanks mr bush).

I don't think this sentiment is accurate. I voted for Kerry this year, but I thought a lot of his talk on the stump about the president encouraging outsourcing was just populist pandering. His only proposed solution was ending tax breaks for companies who go overseas, which I doubt would really deter any companies who wanted to move operations to India for a fraction of their current operating costs. I think there are legitimate criticisms of politicians and then there are things that just get repeated enough that people start to buy it.

 

[kal1484]

(of course, she did not sign her name)

(

My apologies i though that it was automatically told to you that I sent it, therefore no need to sign

As for your comments about churro vendors and toilet cleaners, yea, so what? we don't have to have a degree, but if the toilet cleaner mixes the wrong chemical, or the churro vender who also sells turkey legs lets it get under a certain temp, you're as good as dead. I can tell you right now, that I am proud to be a "Churro vendor"

Sure, I could go make more money by working at McDonalds, and when you come in my line, I could not smile, be mean, and spit in your fries, and frankly, you would think twice about my bad mood. Yet, if I wasn't smiling at you at Disney, you'd have my rear. Unskilled labor? I dont think so. I have to know every answer, to every question, stand in the heat after learning my grandma died and STILL give you a smile. Yet, we are still unskilled labor, getting paid what BARELY gets my bills paid, but we also make magic, and isn't that worth a little more?

Overtime, my roomate LIVES on his overtime, and this IS his career. If you want to move up in the Disney company, you have to work up. So to move up in the company, you should work two jobs?....I don't think so.

 

[Main Street USA]

Guys, if you can't keep the politics out of this thread, then it will be closed. Thanks.

 

[rad_rat]

WannaB@dis wrote:

"To assume that Disney or any company is responsible to make sure their employees make a wage the employee feels is fair is ridiculous. If the employee does not feel the wage is fair, then get another job."

Why is it ridiculous for Disney or any company to pay their employees a fair wage? The employees work and -- whether skilled or not -- make the profits for the company possible. Why is it ridiculous for the employees to expect that they should share in that? It seems to me that it is only fair! It is only moral. It is only right. For any company to feel they have some sort of "market obligation" to exploit their workers to the maximum extent possible is simply unfair, immoral and wrong! Don't talk to me about the "almighty market". We are talking about people unfairly taking advantage of other people. It's time we said "enough!" And I'm glad the Disney CM's have so spoken.

 

[will_hsv]

Rad_Rat while I appreciate your views, I do not appreciate the way that you chose to attack mine. Yes, I did vote my "moral values" and do not see that as something that you need to denigrate. I appreciate conversation, but I do not appreciate the tone that you feel is appropriate in this faceless anonymous discussion.

 

[Figment1986]

Amazing.. also didn't a FLA amendment pass that may help lower coasts of how much these lawsuits can have.. since the lawyer can only take so much now come next year...

 

[speck76]

Yet, we are still unskilled labor, getting paid what BARELY gets my bills paid, but we also make magic, and isn't that worth a little more?.

Maybe you are living beyond your means

Overtime, my roomate LIVES on his overtime, and this IS his career. If you want to move up in the Disney company, you have to work up. So to move up in the company, you should work two jobs?....I don't think so.

To have to depend on OT to make ends meet....probably not such a good plan. What happens when the economy tanks again, or if there is another terrorist attack?


We all have a ton of choices when it comes to "life".

When it comes to your career, you really have two choices. If you work for a company for 2 years in an entry level position (management or staff) and you have not moved up, chances are, you won't. At that time, you need to make a decision:

1. I love this job, no other job is going to make me this happy, and I can live the rest of my life on 3-5% increases in my wage each year.

-or-

2. I love this job, but annual increases are never going to put me ahead in life, I need to find something else that is going to pay better, and where I have a chance for advancement, even if the job is not as enjoyable as this job.