Bob Iger: "‘We’ve got some pretty exciting things that we’ll be announcing over the next few months"

Californian Elitist

Well-Known Member
Here's the best proof yet that Walt wasn't planning to clone DL's castle. This sketch was created January 1967, a month after Walt's death. Even though Walt wasn't alive when this sketch was finished, it was started while he was alive by Imagineer Herb Ryman.

cindy_1967.jpg


Link to article:
http://progresscityusa.com/2010/07/27/the-ryman-centennial-a-whole-new-disney-world/

Peter... Walt Disney had nothing to do with the design of Magic Kingdom in Florida.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Seriously dude... there is no evidence that Walt ever wanted a castle like that. I'm not saying he would've cloned Disneyland's castle, but I have never seen any evidence that Walt even saw any artwork for a castle that looks anything like what we got. Even if you find something dated before Walt's death (good luck), it doesn't mean it would've been built that way. Look at the infamous "Lost Weekend" drawing that Herb Ryman did with Walt staring over his shoulder:
A book exploring the history and psychology of the obsession to connect Walt Disney to Walt Disney World would be a fascinating read. It has been there since the beginning. Yes, there is the touching story of Roy wanting to honor his brother and keep his memory alive, but we also know this was the start of an era of questioning and I can't help but think there was a fear that people would not embrace a Disney company without Walt.
 

Californian Elitist

Well-Known Member
A book exploring the history and psychology of the obsession to connect Walt Disney to Walt Disney World would be a fascinating read. It has been there since the beginning. Yes, there is the touching story of Roy wanting to honor his brother and keep his memory alive, but we also know this was the start of an era of questioning and I can't help but think there was a fear that people would not embrace a Disney company without Walt.

Maybe you should write this book.
 

Captain Neo

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Eisner was great with Frank Wells but damn it he at least invested in the parks. If Eisner had still been CEO we would be getting loads of stuff especially with his never wanted to be beaten attitude.

Let's look at some of the "loads of stuff" from 98-2006:

Buzz Lightyear - cheap redo of dreamflight with cardboard cutouts and locale arcade vibe
Stitch overlay of Alien encounter to make it more childish and tie it into the movie
mission space replacing horizons
original journey into imagination replaced with 2 horrible redos that eliminated not only the core of the ride but shortened it and closed off the upstairs image works.
Redoing spaceship earth to now have mall manniquins at the end and removing Tomorrow's Child
closed the subs at both parks with no replacement
closed skyway with no replacement
Dino-RAMA
half baked Kali river rapids
Disney's California Adventure

and that's just off the top of my head. Eisner can keep his "loads of stuff" i'll take well done lands based off Star Wars and Avatar any day of the week. Cars Land and even the Little Mermaid are faarrrr superior to anything we got in Eisner's last 10 years at the top.
 

SirLink

Well-Known Member
Let's look at some of the "loads of stuff" from 98-2006:

Buzz Lightyear - cheap redo of dreamflight with cardboard cutouts and locale arcade vibe
Stitch overlay of Alien encounter to make it more childish and tie it into the movie
mission space replacing horizons
original journey into imagination replaced with 2 horrible redos that eliminated not only the core of the ride but shortened it and closed off the upstairs image works.
Redoing spaceship earth to now have mall manniquins at the end and removing Tomorrow's Child
closed the subs at both parks with no replacement
closed skyway with no replacement
Dino-RAMA
half baked Kali river rapids
Disney's California Adventure

and that's just off the top of my head. Eisner can keep his "loads of stuff" i'll take well done lands based off Star Wars and Avatar any day of the week. Cars Land and even the Little Mermaid are faarrrr superior to anything we got in Eisner's last 10 years at the top.

Hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaha! I see this is why you were made a permanent junior on the other forum.

Let us look at the the rides which outrank those - Tower of Terror, Great Movie Ride, Alien Encounter, Indiana Jones Adventure, just to name a few. Guess what built and green lit during the Eisner era.
 

PeterAlt

Well-Known Member
Peter... Walt Disney had nothing to do with the design of Magic Kingdom in Florida.
Yes, I know that. The point I was trying to make from the beginning of all this was that Walt was 100% focused on EPCOT (the city), but that doesn't mean that some of his Imagineers weren't allowed to work on other things (such as the MK). Walt may have had all his attention on EPCOT, but he could have also delegated power to the Imagineers working on the MK. It's like he pointed out people: "You, you, and you, come with me. I need to borrow your talents to help me with a very special project... And you, Herbert, that space all the way on the top... I need you put a Magic Kingdom there... You know what to do... We've done it before... I trust your creative instincts... Just nothing too fancy... We have budgets and deadlines to make... You can use anyone you want but don't distract the people working with me on this EPCOT project..."
 

Captain Neo

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaha! I see this is why you were made a permanent junior on the other forum.
Let us look at the the rides which outrank those - Tower of Terror, Great Movie Ride, Alien Encounter, Indiana Jones Adventure, just to name a few. Guess what built and green lit during the Eisner era.

ummm none of those were built between 1998-2006.
 

Captain Neo

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
All built within the Eisner era though - which is my point.

There is a fundemental difference between Eisner's first 10 years (84-94) and his "second term" (94-05)

In the first 10 years Frank Wells was the President of the Company and was able to keep Eisner in check and a keen sense of what needed to be done to strengthen the Disney brand from parks to movies. Also, because Eisner was still fresh Imagineering and the way Disney conducted business was still the "old way". For example Tony Baxter recently said in a podcast that back in those days he could go directly to Eisner and Frank Wells offices to pitch projects and they would be approved or rejected in a very timely manner. Now even top level imagineers have to go through walls of bureaucracy to even be able to show a project to the CEO.

After Wells died and Euro Disneyland flopped, Eisner set up the strategic planning division which included Tom Staggs and Jay Rasolu in their ranks. He put retail and marketing people in charge of the parks and created a very toxic political atmosphere in Imagineering. Which is why attraction projects did a complete 180 in quality.

So no you were never getting any grand rides like Indiana Jones Adventure and Tower of Terror again under Eisner. Just look at Expedition Everest they knew they needed something to boost attendance at Animal Kingdom so they greenlit it but woefully underfunded it so that there are no show scenes in the interior and the one animatronic on the ride broke down a year after opening.
 

FrankLapidus

Well-Known Member
Hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaha! I see this is why you were made a permanent junior on the other forum.

Let us look at the the rides which outrank those - Tower of Terror, Great Movie Ride, Alien Encounter, Indiana Jones Adventure, just to name a few. Guess what built and green lit during the Eisner era.

To be fair, those are all things that were green-lit and built when everything was going great at Disney, when the Eisner/Wells partnership was in charge. Captain Neo's list came after Wells had passed away, when things right across TWDC had begun to go downhill and there was very little sign of that downward spiral being stopped.

At the end of the day its impossible to know what might have happened had Eisner remained in charge. It could have gone either way, Eisner might have gone all out at the parks and committed millions of dollar to ensure that Disney remained ahead of the competition. Or his ego might have clouded his judgement, like it did in animation, and he might have done more harm than good in believing that he knew better than anyone else. The best things Eisner did at Disney came about when Wells was alive, he needed someone like that to reign him in and keep things on track. Without someone like Wells working with Eisner, its hard to believe that things would have gotten better given that he had surrounded himself with yes-men who would never have told him if one of his ideas was a bad one.
 

SirLink

Well-Known Member

Right we all know that but Eisner had a never wanted to be beaten attitude plus he actually cared about investment in the parks. Eisner had plans to invest if IoA actually took days/money away from Disney. If Eisner were still in charge we would be getting real investment in the parks - like I don't know there was a theme park war going on. Ya know not some nebulous investment that will come in 2018.

Oh but I will say this I never trust people that has CountryBearFan as a follower.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
If reports are true about Monstropolis and Star Wars (not a fan of where they are supposed to put either, but that's another story), it would be a start. It depends on how Star Wars turns out whether it is enough to stem the tide a bit. At the very least it would be much more than what WDW did. As long as DLR can keep people from switching out their DLR AP for a USH AP, they should be fine.

Regardless of what DLR does USH is going to get a massive Potter bump when it opens. I forsee capacity issues for that park. I wouldn't be surprised if the buy one day get the rest of the year free offer goes away.

Great points!

I have faith that Monstropolis will turn out very well. Look at their recent track record with Cars Land and Buena Vista Street, and even the more modest Paradise Pier remodel. Their recent work is fabulous.

And that Hollywood Backlot corner of DCA is currently the most forlorn, most pathetic, most under-utilized corner of any Disney theme park in North America. It's a collection of Paul Pressler's hip n' edgy stucco warehouses, with forgotten facilities and empty shells where failed and/or temporary concepts used to be. It's so bad they can leave a giant Alice In Wonderland themed nightly dance party set up all day and no one cares. Bring on Monstropolis and a Door Coaster!

MadTParty1-051912-AVP.jpg


As for USH, yeah... but it won't be as easy for them to pick off huge numbers of Disney attendance as it was for Universal's Orlando parks. In Orlando the Universal complex is 8 miles away via relatively uncongested freeways, and within a core tourism complex anyway. In Anaheim, the Universal complex is 36 miles away across the massive Los Angeles freeway system that is a nightmare to traverse the second you cross the Orange County line and get into Los Angeles County. Disneyland is perfectly centrally located in the middle of the SoCal population. Universal Studios is on the northwest flank of Los Angeles, and that's going to not make it convenient or fast for people from Orange, Riverside, San Bernardino and San Diego counties to get to.

Not to say there won't be a big draw when Potter opens there, but it won't be the same dynamic as in play in the Orlando market.
 
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SirLink

Well-Known Member
To be fair, those are all things that were green-lit and built when everything was going great at Disney, when the Eisner/Wells partnership was in charge. Captain Neo's list came after Wells had passed away, when things right across TWDC had begun to go downhill and there was very little sign of that downward spiral being stopped.

At the end of the day its impossible to know what might have happened had Eisner remained in charge. It could have gone either way, Eisner might have gone all out at the parks and committed millions of dollar to ensure that Disney remained ahead of the competition. Or his ego might have clouded his judgement, like it did in animation, and he might have done more harm than good in believing that he knew better than anyone else. The best things Eisner did at Disney came about when Wells was alive, he needed someone like that to reign him in and keep things on track. Without someone like Wells working with Eisner, its hard to believe that things would have gotten better given that he had surrounded himself with yes-men who would never have told him if one of his ideas was a bad one.

We got the most beautiful park in the US built after Wells had passed on.
 

Cosmic Commando

Well-Known Member
A book exploring the history and psychology of the obsession to connect Walt Disney to Walt Disney World would be a fascinating read. It has been there since the beginning. Yes, there is the touching story of Roy wanting to honor his brother and keep his memory alive, but we also know this was the start of an era of questioning and I can't help but think there was a fear that people would not embrace a Disney company without Walt.
This is 100% honest right here: I think it's cognitive dissonance. So many of us can give you a pretty good biography of Walt just from memory. We know his philosophy, personality, likes, dislikes, passions, etc. We love Walt. We love WDW; most of us have spent thousands and thousands of dollars there having the times of our lives. The problem is that somewhere deep down (some deeper than others) in the bottom of their heart, every serious WDW fan knows that the WDW we have today is not what Walt wanted when he died. Maybe he would have done things the exact same way, would have run up against the same roadblocks, experienced the same cultural changes and come to the same solutions as those who succeeded him... but he died. We don't know what he would have actually done. From the moment when the executives of TWDC abandoned EPCOT the city and started planning EPCOT Center the theme park, it stopped being Walt's dying dream and morphed into something else. But we love that something else.

We love the man, and we love the thing that is (crudely put) his dream betrayed. How can someone possibly deal with this conflict? You find any possible evidence that Walt actually wanted it this way, that WDW is on the right track.
 

DznyGrlSD

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
Yes
And that Hollywood Backlot corner of DCA is currently the most forlorn, most pathetic, most under-utilized corner of any Disney theme park in North America. It's a collection of Paul Pressler's hip n' edgy stucco warehouses, with forgotten facilities and empty shells where failed and/or temporary concepts used to be. It's so bad they can leave a giant Alice In Wonderland themed nightly dance party set up all day and no one cares. Bring on Monstropolis and a Door Coaster!

MadTParty1-051912-AVP.jpg


As a former PI regular and PI castmember...I LOVED the "Mad Tea Party" at DCA when we were there in May - HOWEVER - I see your point...completely! It would fit in better elsewhere (Downtown Disney?)
 

Californian Elitist

Well-Known Member
Yes, I know that. The point I was trying to make from the beginning of all this was that Walt was 100% focused on EPCOT (the city), but that doesn't mean that some of his Imagineers weren't allowed to work on other things (such as the MK). Walt may have had all his attention on EPCOT, but he could have also delegated power to the Imagineers working on the MK. It's like he pointed out people: "You, you, and you, come with me. I need to borrow your talents to help me with a very special project... And you, Herbert, that space all the way on the top... I need you put a Magic Kingdom there... You know what to do... We've done it before... I trust your creative instincts... Just nothing too fancy... We have budgets and deadlines to make... You can use anyone you want but don't distract the people working with me on this EPCOT project..."

There's been no evidence of this, though. No mention of anything like that during conversations about WDW.

Like @lazyboy97o said, I think people are desperate to connect Walt Disney to WDW like he was connected to Disneyland. It's unfortunate he passed before he could even begin his Florida project, but the truth is he did.

I've heard one of the Magic Kingdom tours gives bogus/made up info about Walt Disney and WDW. I think it was @TP2000 who mentioned something about this.
 

Cosmic Commando

Well-Known Member
As a former PI regular and PI castmember...I LOVED the "Mad Tea Party" at DCA when we were there in May - HOWEVER - I see your point...completely! It would fit in better elsewhere (Downtown Disney?)
It would fit in better at Downtown Disney. Some of the scaffolding and stuff wouldn't even necessarily look out of place during the day, or at least it would look much better than it does now. HOWEVER, part of the "magic" of Mad Tea Party (like Epcot Food & Wine) is getting people to pay for theme park admission and then using their time in a theme park that they paid for to gobble up $12 drinks.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
As a former PI regular and PI castmember...I LOVED the "Mad Tea Party" at DCA when we were there in May - HOWEVER - I see your point...completely! It would fit in better elsewhere (Downtown Disney?)

Mad T Party is great, don't get me wrong. I thought Glow Fest in 2010 was better, but the T Party is still very good.

But it's quite telling that the T Party can sit there unused from 8AM to 6PM until it starts, and no one seems to care because that corner of the park is so forgotten and so sad looking that the empty daytime shell of the T Party waiting to be turned on is actually an improvement for that section of the park.

What's funny is that a few years ago it was DHS that was the hot rumor to get a Door Coaster. But that old rumor just had it inside one of the existing DHS studios, while the DCA rumor from Al Lutz/Micechat has it becoming an entire Monstropolis mini-land. Could Monstropolis be cloned for DHS as well so they can still get their Door Coaster?
 

Cosmic Commando

Well-Known Member
Mad T Party is great, don't get me wrong. I thought Glow Fest in 2010 was better, but the T Party is still very good.

But it's quite telling that the T Party can sit there unused from 8AM to 6PM until it starts, and no one seems to care because that corner of the park is so forgotten and so sad looking that the empty daytime shell of the T Party waiting to be turned on is actually an improvement for that section of the park.


What's funny is that a few years ago it was DHS that was the hot rumor to get a Door Coaster. But that old rumor just had it inside one of the existing DHS studios, while the DCA rumor from Al Lutz/Micechat has it becoming an entire Monstropolis mini-land. Could Monstropolis be cloned for DHS as well so they can still get their Door Coaster?
Sums it up pretty well. And I don't even go to the Mad T Party.

I miss the Mickey statue, but in the blandest of bland areas, the T Party is something to look at. Even when closed.
 

DznyGrlSD

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
Yes
It would fit in better at Downtown Disney. Some of the scaffolding and stuff wouldn't even necessarily look out of place during the day, or at least it would look much better than it does now. HOWEVER, part of the "magic" of Mad Tea Party (like Epcot Food & Wine) is getting people to pay for theme park admission and then using their time in a theme park that they paid for to gobble up $12 drinks.

Yeah...sucker right here. May was my 1st trip to DL and I had to "try" one of all of the drinks. I still have my glow cubes and glowing martini glass sitting my shelf. I bought a bunch of tea party pins too :greedy:
 

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