Bob Chapek's response to Florida's 'Don't Say Gay' bill

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morphi

Member
I don't care how many education degrees you have. (I have one, too.)

The target of this bill is PEOPLE, not sex or sexuality.


It was suggested to change the text of the bill to the above so as to "not marginalize anyone". The author's response was that such a move would "gut the bill"...the purpose is specifically to marginalize people. See the full article in the link.
Containing the phrase "sexual orientation or gender identity" in no way causes the bill to target people (presumably you have in mind here LGBTQ people) as opposed to sex or sexuality. Neither "sexual orientation" not "gender identity" refer specifically to LGBTQ. Straight, "cisgender" people have a "sexual orientation" and "gender identity" just like anyone else.

The bill is often called the "Don't Say Gay" bill. This is a mischaracterization. If it bans instruction of "sexual orientation" (as it does), then that means it bans instruction using terms like gay, lesbian, bi, AND EVEN "STRAIGHT"! So it's the "Don't Say Gay, Lesbian, Bi, Straight" bill. It's an equal-opportunity disallowance of that entire topic up through grade 3.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Containing the phrase "sexual orientation or gender identity" in no way causes the bill to target people (presumably you have in mind here LGBTQ people) as opposed to sex or sexuality. Neither "sexual orientation" not "gender identity" refer specifically to LGBTQ. Straight, "cisgender" people have a "sexual orientation" and "gender identity" just like anyone else.
Then why does the bill’s sponsor seems to think it’s an important distinction?
 

morphi

Member
Then why does the bill’s sponsor seems to think it’s an important distinction?
I do not know why that one man makes a distinction. But courts will decide what the law "means" by looking at its text. Even if one of the bill's sponsors is bigoted, that does not mean the bill is bigoted. First, dozens of legislators in both legislative houses voted on the bill (and modified it during interactive deliberations). Second, the text as understood by the courts is what determines what is allowed and disallowed under the law.

In my mind, I would be open to considering changing the text to "sex and sexuality", but there could be a legitimate reason to discuss such broad and anodyne topics up through third grade that legislators did not want to ban (e.g, discussing a story about adoption and distinguishing it from biological reproduction). But they did want to ban instruction regarding the more specific, psychological, nuanced, and typically, at this age, less germane topics of "sexual orientation" and "gender identity" up through grade 3.
 

ImperfectPixie

Well-Known Member
@Crunchie9 using the laughing reaction in a derisive way when the post being reacted to is not intended to be funny is against the site Terms of Service and not allowed. The moderators have mentioned this several times throughout the forums.
 

morphi

Member
And they will be fired for breach of contract.
I think most of the walkouts will be done during each employee's normal 15-minute breaks allowed during their work shift. Not sure how anyone will know they are walking out if that is the case. There might be one big walkout at the end of the week that does not coincide with break-time. Not sure what that will look like.

Regardless, those employees who are planning on walking out ought to (1) read the text of the bill, and (2) think more objectively about what they read. The bill does not violate any person's rights.
 

ImperfectPixie

Well-Known Member
I think most of the walkouts will be done during each employee's normal 15-minute breaks allowed during their work shift. Not sure how anyone will know they are walking out if that is the case. There might be one big walkout at the end of the week that does not coincide with break-time. Not sure what that will look like.

Regardless, those employees who are planning on walking out ought to (1) read the text of the bill, and (2) think more objectively about what they read. The bill does not violate any person's rights.
The bill targets qualities of humans...which is discriminatory.

Change "sexual orientation and gender identity" to "genealogical background and race"...and you can see why that verbiage is problematic (and that's putting it lightly).
 
I think most of the walkouts will be done during each employee's normal 15-minute breaks allowed during their work shift. Not sure how anyone will know they are walking out if that is the case. There might be one big walkout at the end of the week that does not coincide with break-time. Not sure what that will look like.

Regardless, those employees who are planning on walking out ought to (1) read the text of the bill, and (2) think more objectively about what they read. The bill does not violate any person's rights.
All biological men should say they "feel" like they have menstruation cramps and walk out...science was abandoned a long time ago and now it's all about how we feel. Just like the menstruating (what the NY times is stating we should call biological women) women on the Penn swim team who are complaining about the trans athlete who keeps whipping out her ...her . What a juvenile country we have become
 

Hakunamatata

Le Meh
Premium Member
I think the bill must say something else. Because the breathless coverage and social media outrage don’t seem to match up with the text of the bill.

I believe gaslighting is a popular thing to reference.
gaslight GIF by The Opposition w/ Jordan Klepper
 

morphi

Member
The bill targets qualities of humans...which is discriminatory.

Change "sexual orientation and gender identity" to "genealogical background and race"...and you can see why that verbiage is problematic (and that's putting it lightly).
The text of the bill targets public school instruction (up through third grade) regarding "sexual orientation" and "gender identity". If "sexual orientation" or "gender identity" (which reference gay/straight and transgender/cisgender) is considered "qualities of humans" (as you say) then I suppose it could be said to target "qualities of humans". But that is far from discriminatory as you contend because no distinctions are being made between classes or types of people (straight v. gay, cisgender v. transgender)--it simply takes certain topics off the table for instruction (up through third grade) in a non-discriminatory way.

I do not see your point about changing the text to "genealogical background and race" showing me why the verbiage is problematic. If you can expand your thoughts on that, I would like to consider that point.

The bill is clearly non-descriminatory and does not violate anyone's rights. It is also clear that many in the LGBTQ community do NOT want this bill to pass. BOTH can be true at the same time.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
The text of the bill targets public school instruction (up through third grade) regarding "sexual orientation" and "gender identity". If "sexual orientation" or "gender identity" (which reference gay/straight and transgender/cisgender) is considered "qualities of humans" (as you say) then I suppose it could be said to target "qualities of humans". But that is far from discriminatory as you contend because no distinctions are being made between classes or types of people (straight v. gay, cisgender v. transgender)--it simply takes certain topics off the table for instruction (up through third grade) in a non-discriminatory way.

I do not see your point about changing the text to "genealogical background and race" showing me why the verbiage is problematic. If you can expand your thoughts on that, I would like to consider that point.

The bill is clearly non-descriminatory and does not violate anyone's rights. It is also clear that many in the LGBTQ community do NOT want this bill to pass. BOTH can be true at the same time.
Then why does the author think it will help slow the spread of gayness? What gap in state law and curriculum development does it fix? Why didn’t the governor just instruct his employees to revise the problematic portion of the curriculum?
 

morphi

Member
Then why does the author think it will help slow the spread of gayness? What gap in state law and curriculum development does it fix? Why didn’t the governor just instruct his employees to revise the problematic portion of the curriculum?
Again, I do not know what thoughts are in that one person's mind. But my objective analysis of the text of the bill stands. It is non-discriminatory and does not violate anyone's rights.

Regarding the curriculum, I do not know if the specific content of the curriculum is controlled at the state or county level. But this bill, in effect does what you suggest. It takes one topic off the table for instruction (up through third grade) in a non-discriminatory way without violating anyone's rights.
 

morphi

Member
I have not read the entire thread. Someone may have already provided a similar analysis of the bill. But here are the basics of my analysis:

The bill primarily does 3 things: (1) Guards parents’ right to know, approve, and access materials at the school regarding various things relating to the mental, emotional, or physical health of their children. IMPORTANTLY, there is an exception when there is cause to believe that involving parents will result in abuse, abandonment, or neglect of the child; (2) Requires that instruction about “sexual orientation or gender identification” does not occur in the classroom up through grade 3. From grade 4 and up, discussions on those topics are allowed but must be age- and development-appropriate (as defined in pre-existing legislation); (3) Gives parents rights to bring concerns to the school, then to the county school board. If resolution is not then achieved, they have the right to bring a case in court.

Those who oppose the bill call it the “Don’t Say Gay” bill. Well, guess what you also can’t say (thru grade 3)? “Straight” It’s the “Don’t say Straight” bill too. The topic of sexual orientation (gay, straight, or anything in between) is not to be part of the curriculum (thru grade 3). Same goes for transgender words. Not only can you not have a session about “transgenderism”, you cannot have a session on “cisgender” gender either!

Many who oppose the bill also worry that some students who do not conform to straight, cisgender norms will not receive the words of affirmation from their teachers and that many will be bullied, feel shame, and/or attempt/commit suicide. But, at such a young age, what would be concerning about themselves to these kids that might make them depressed or seek self-harm is not some concept about “orientation” (they are not sexually or romantically attracted to anybody at young ages) or “gender identity.” What would cause them angst is that they have interests or proclivities that are unusual (not common) in others they deem "like" them. So, a boy would be concerned if he liked making jewelry and didn’t like wrestling. Or a girl would feel angst about liking playing in the mud and not dressing up. (These are just stereotypical examples.) They are not thinking in terms of sexual attraction or genitalia v. self-identity.

But this bill does not stop a teacher from providing valuable lessons to these kids (and ALL kids) about the value of being kind to all regardless of how they are different, that bullying is wrong, that we share a common humanity and are similar in so many ways--but we each are unique in our own ways too. And, it seems to me, they are also free to communicate the message that not all boys like typically-boy things (and the same for girls) since this truth does not necessarily equate to transgenderism (and does not require the concept of transgenderism to explain). Messages like these help to safeguard the mental and emotional status of all kids. And this bill does nothing to stop this messaging. As the kids get older and their self-knowledge starts to expand into more sexual/gender identities, these topics can then be brought up. This bill allows that to happen from grade 4 and up in an age-appropriate way. I think that is wise.
 
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