Bob Chapek Confirms Disney Will Overhaul Epcot

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I agree that the current corporate administration of Disney is creatively bankrupt and inept. This is yet another reason why we will never see a return to form at EPCOT Center. With regards to those educational documentaries and shows you’ve referenced, although they may be relatively successful as television programs, I doubt they’d be successful when translated into theme park form. And again, going off of what you said, they could at least turn some heads to the park if they were done very well like in the past, but we’ve established that this will likely never happen.

Making all the classic cartoons into cgi live action for quick scores is a perfect example of bankrupt. Not adding to the pipeline creatively because it requires real work.

This is iger’s “direct to vhs” moment...same concept on a grander scale.

Roy E won the battle 15 years ago...and yet Disney is still going down the path to lose the war

 

[geekza]

I think this management has proven that they ARE NOT good at this...

Frozen...was a mistake. Take the snowman away and the reality is that property will not have the legs that a little mermaid or beauty and the beast will.

It kinda a silly concept...and while wildly popular at the time it was released due to a renewed desire for princesses...its popularity has slid dramatically in MY OPINION. It is still a marketable franchise but not moving upward by any stretch. And this sequel does not appear to be going well. It’s taking forever.

So they anchored an old ride to that IP and built a meet and greet add on to the pavilion. That was DUMB. Is anyone gonna be into that in 10 years? Serious doubts.

I don't know, man. Frozen was a solid film that has absolutely remained popular with a large segment of Disney's audience. Heck, it moved to Broadway this past year. (The show isn't great, but that's beside the point.) I think it has just as much staying power as many of their other animated films. As for the ride, if I ignore the fact that it is in the wrong park, I have to admit that after riding it, I was sold. It's a thoroughly lovely attraction with great effects. Both my wife and I were very impressed by it. If you didn't know that it was a rebuild of an earlier attraction path and ride system, I don't think there's anything that sticks out as any sort of compromise. They did a fantastic job with it.

It still has no business whatsoever being in Epcot.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I stand by my assertion that current Disney management could not build a successful theme park from scratch that would have the cultural impact and ongoing legacy that Disneyland, the Magic Kingdom, and EPCOT Center do and did. They are vultures, feeding off the rapidly-decaying carcass of a once-mighty beast. Eventually, there won't be any meat left.

Parks that remain more popular than the parks that offer up what the public supposedly demands.

 

[geekza]

Parks that remain more popular than the parks that offer up what the public supposedly demands.

At a certain point, I think during the last half of Eisner's tenure, Disney stopped building attractions based on creativity and innovation that were the envy of all other parks and started building attractions based on the potential for short-term profit. Their attractions are still more elaborate than most other places, but only because they have more money to spend on them. They aren't breaking new ground or trying to move the art of attraction design forward. When the impetus of new attractions switched from "because it will be awesome" to "because we can get more people in the parks who'll give us their money," it signaled the beginning of the end of what made Disney special.

 

[discott99]

At a certain point, I think during the last half of Eisner's tenure, Disney stopped building attractions based on creativity and innovation that were the envy of all other parks and started building attractions based on the potential for short-term profit. Their attractions are still more elaborate than most other places, but only because they have more money to spend on them. They aren't breaking new ground or trying to move the art of attraction design forward. When the impetus of new attractions switched from "because it will be awesome" to "because we can get more people in the parks who'll give us their money," it signaled the beginning of the end of what made Disney special.

Which is why we’ll unfortunately never see a marvel like Horizons in Epcot again.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

I need to preface this by stating that I am a huge fan of what EPCOT Center had to offer back in the 80s and early 90s; the attractions and experiences were novel and incredibly well designed. What we need to understand, however, is that these experiences are never returning. Ever.
The fact is, Disney is a multi-billion dollar corporation, and their primary interest is maximizing profit; that's about it. Everything else, like customer satisfaction, design, and creativity, comes second. The harsh reality is, when boiled down, creativity from WDI is simply a tool to maximize profit.
When Walt Disney founded Disneyland, I'm sure that his intentions to create a family-friendly destination that could thoroughly be enjoyed were genuine. Let's not forget, however, that Walt Disney was indeed a businessman and a good one at that. Walt's corporate mission can really be condensed down to this: give the masses what they want. If the masses with wallets demand it, build it. Guests wanted thrills, so what did Walt do? He built the Matterhorn.
Indeed, many people would pay good money to see EPCOT Center return to its former state. However, this number is simply not large enough to sustain a massive theme park. Disney is going to be putting IP's in Epcot, and that's final. Why? It's because they masses recognize these properties in the mainstream. Frozen replaced Maelstrom because Frozen made a boatload of cash and sells tons of toys; that's about all the justification Disney needs as a corporation to make such a decision.
The argument that Disney needs to remain true to the mission statement of EPCOT Center is admirable but quite naive. Again, the reality is, no company looking to maximize profit will forgo opportunities to do so. Moreover, such a company would never do things to hinder profit maximization, and bringing back fairly unmarketable and unrecognizable experiences would do just that.

"...not that there's anything wrong with that."

...that’s very similar to when I love people embarrassing themselves defending something they have no real reason to defend.

I'll let you respond to yourself:

I’m sorry...I missed what your point is attempting to be??

And it's a shortsighted decision. Properties come and go, and not all have staying power.

Nonsense. If it's a good attraction, it will have staying power, regardless of IP. (Hello, Song Of The South.)

You're right, and what a profoundly sad statement on how far American culture has devolved since the 80s.

If everybody was so into it in the '80's, it would still be there in some form or another. So let's not romanticize the decade of greed and excess and pretend everybody was all into academics.

Frozen...was a mistake. Take the snowman away and the reality is that property will not have the legs that a little mermaid or beauty and the beast will.

Get a refund on that crystal ball rental.

What makes Little Mermaid better - it's older? (It's still "new Disney" AFAIC.)

Disney stopped building attractions based on creativity and innovation that were the envy of all other parks and started building attractions based on the potential for short-term profit.

That's silly. Two things:

1. If short term profit is good, long term profit is better. If they make a good attraction out of any IP, it will outlast the IP if necessary. Again, how many kids are clamoring for Song Of The South?
2. No matter how long it wants to last, stuff gets old and needs replacing (or refurb) at some point, anyway.

 

[HauntedPirate]

Making all the classic cartoons into cgi live action for quick scores is a perfect example of bankrupt. Not adding to the pipeline creatively because it requires real work.

This is iger’s “direct to vhs” moment...same concept on a grander scale.

Roy E won the battle 15 years ago...and yet Disney is still going down the path to lose the war

Ever since they announced all these live-action remakes of animated movies, I've been of the opinion that these are Iger's equivalant of Eisner's direct-to-VHS sequel-itis. One made money, so immediately order 20 more!

Who would have thought that the words, "creatively bankrupt" would EVER describe the management at TWDC, or even many parts of the company itself?

 

[MuteSuperstar]

If everybody was so into it in the '80's, it would still be there in some form or another. So let's not romanticize the decade of greed and excess and pretend everybody was all into academics.

Hahaha please. Greed and excess of today makes the 80s look like the smallest of potatoes.

 

[mikejs78]

Using your imagination, working towards a better tomorrow, conserving the land and seas, etc. all stand the test of time as great and inspiring ideas. These messages, however, just aren't marketable to the masses.

What evidence do you have to support that theory? I have several pieces to support mine.

For almost all of its history, Epcot has been the #3 theme park in the US, behind only Magic Kingdom and Disneyland. DHS, AK, Uni, IoA - none could come close. So I would say that yes, Epcot's theme is marketable as evinced by it's long-standing success as a park. It's only the last few years that Epcot's position has drooped and guest satisfaction has deteriorated, and it coincides with there being less to do than there used to be. And some attractions that have gone stale.

For any other company, yes. But the bedrock of Disney's success has been keeping their characters and stories going over generations. Part of how they do this is corporate cross-pollination.

So why don't we see Herbie the Love Bug represented in the parks?

 

[discott99]

I think that the question of why EPCOT Center worked in the 80s is pretty loaded. From my observations, the popularity of EPCOT Center in the 80s and early 90s directly coincided with the end of the post-war mentality in mainstream America. As such, the end of the Cold War in 1991 may have actually played a part in the decline of EPCOT Center's popularity as a place of edutainment. When the Iron Curtain fell, a global culture of entertainment arose, and its been with us ever since. Therefore, people's interests in things like Horizons, which displayed a bright future of innovation, fell. The market demand starting at that point changed to what we see today, and Disney has been supplying what the masses demand ever since. Is it a coincidence that Disney drastically changed the way they approached their parks in the mid-90s? I don't think so.

 

[Rich Brownn]

You're right, and what a profoundly sad statement on how far American culture has devolved since the 80s.

And yet 20+ million (and 70+ million) routinely show up for World's Fairs, which are even less entertaining than the original EPCOT was in terms of attractions - they are almost all educational.

 

[MuteSuperstar]

And yet 20+ million (and 70+ million) routinely show up for World's Fairs, which are even less entertaining than the original EPCOT was in terms of attractions - they are almost all educational.

Yknow I was wondering about that the other day, if there are still even World's Fairs. The last one I can remember in the US was maybe Knoxville 82?

 

[discott99]

What evidence do you have to support that theory? I have several pieces to support mine.

For almost all of its history, Epcot has been the #3 theme park in the US, behind only Magic Kingdom and Disneyland. DHS, AK, Uni, IoA - none could come close. So I would say that yes, Epcot's theme is marketable as evinced by it's long-standing success as a park. It's only the last few years that Epcot's position has drooped and guest satisfaction has deteriorated, and it coincides with there being less to do than there used to be. And some attractions that have gone stale.




So why don't we see Herbie the Love Bug represented in the parks?

Of course Epcot has remained popular. I'm not denying that the message doesn't resonate with a plethora of people. But take a look at Epcot over the past 25 years, since its rebranding from EPCOT Center into Epcot. What has happened to the park since then to keep attendance afloat? Festivals and the constant addition of out of park properties. The attendance longevity of Epcot you reference isn't due to the message of EPCOT Center resonating with the masses, but because of Disney keeping up with the increasingly different demands of the people who visit their parks.

 

[discott99]

Yknow I was wondering about that the other day, if there are still even World's Fairs. The last one I can remember in the US was maybe Knoxville 84?

As far as I'm aware, they really don't exist in the classical way we think of them, like the '64 fair. They're more focused on specific issues, like green energy, and garner almost no media attention.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Yknow I was wondering about that the other day, if there are still even World's Fairs. The last one I can remember in the US was maybe Knoxville 82?

There was one last year and the next two years. The US even recently rejoined to support Minnesota’s [failed] bid for 2023.
https://www.bie-paris.org/site/en/expo-index

 

[Indy_UK]

 

[mikejs78]

Of course Epcot has remained popular. I'm not denying that the message doesn't resonate with a plethora of people. But take a look at Epcot over the past 25 years, since its rebranding from EPCOT Center into Epcot. What has happened to the park since then to keep attendance afloat? Festivals and the constant addition of out of park properties. The attendance longevity of Epcot you reference isn't due to the message of EPCOT Center resonating with the masses, but because of Disney keeping up with the increasingly different demands of the people who visit their parks.

It's really the last 10 years, not the last 25. I really mark the start of the decline with the closing of WoL in 2007, the gutting of Innoventions. There just wasn't as much to do. That's really when the heavy promotion of the festivals started...

 

[jt04]

You’re “millennializing” this...aka misreading it 100%.

There isn’t a stodgy subset of fans that refuse to like Epcot unless they rebuild horizons...you’re way off.

All Epcot fans will embrace any quality attractions That follow a loose central theme...even if it’s more broad. That is not guardians of the galaxy...a particularly stupid comic book franchise

I just think they should tell the 1% of purists that they are going in a different direction, give Imagineering free reign and let the chips fall where the may.

 

[mikejs78]

I just think they should tell the 1% of purists that they are going in a different direction, give Imagineering free reign and let the chips fall where the may.

The problem is Imagineering doesnt have free reign. They have been given a mandate.

 

[marni1971]

I just think they should tell the 1% of purists that they are going in a different direction, give Imagineering free reign and let the chips fall where the may.

The problem is Imagineering doesnt have free reign. They have been given a mandate.