Bob Chapek Confirms Disney Will Overhaul Epcot

[Rich Brownn]

I




Disney's storytelling set it apart from the World's Fairs, but it was the World's Fairs it was emulating. The theme is industrial film writ large.

Like Futurama above, there was ambition and wonder at EPCOT Center, but little laughter, thrill, fear, or tug of the heart-sting to be found. Dreamfinder tells us of such things, but they're presented more as concepts. Craftsmanship aside, Disney left the most important tools in the storytellers toolbox in the box.

Narration is impersonal. Moving about on a glorified conveyor belt puts efficiency above all else and makes it feel less like a ride, and more like a manufacturing process. Here we aren't the guests so much as the product. Companies paid big money to have us hear their message. Communication/Phones. Energy/Oil. Motion/Cars. Imagination/Film. Land/Food.

If Star-Lord wants to give me a tour of the Galaxy then fine. I'd love to see a supernova in person. Feel the force of a black hole. Explore colorful Nebulas . I'm not sure what where getting, but I could see it work. Besides, you don't have to sell me on Guardians of the Galaxy becaue I've already bought it.

World of Motion told me it was fun to be free, but Test Track's outdoor loop made me believe it. I think Horizons, Energy, and Spaceship Earth each included footage of the space shuttle taking off- Mission Space put me on it.

zTest Track .. lets see we go uphill, downhill, slide around, go around turns and drive at 65 mph. Didn't we already do that driving to EPCOT?

 

[sedati]

zTest Track .. lets see we go uphill, downhill, slide around, go around turns and drive at 65 mph. Didn't we already do that driving to EPCOT?

Well, if you drove to Epcot, you probably didn't need this refresher course on the wheel either:

 

[marni1971]

Well, if you drove to Epcot, you probably didn't need this refresher course on the wheel either:
View attachment 329915

One was more fun than the other.

 

[MuteSuperstar]

One was more fun than the other.

Heck, Bird and the Robot was more enjoyable than TT 2.0.

 

[marni1971]

Heck, Bird and the Robot was more enjoyable than TT 2.0.

Touché!

 

[larryz]

But you end up at the same spot: and awful, non Epcot quality pavilion anchor that has sat for 16 years as if nobody notices

Sorry, but if it's in Epcot, it is, by definition "Epcot quality."

 

[larryz]

This whole Epcot situation is really personal to me. I decided to let it flow on twitter today. I know this will make no difference but at this point WTH, why not:

You need to visit Norway.

 

[larryz]

It’s amazing how many people make comments like these on this forum without realizing how condescending it is.

My intellectual response is basically "when you're CEO, you can set the direction."

 

[sedati]

One was more fun than the other.

Well, I found them both enjoyable, but in very different ways.

Regardless, thanks for putting up the Canada Tribute- O Canada is the one EPCOT Center attraction I never got to see (though I've listened to that song countless times.)

 

[flyerjab]

I




Disney's storytelling set it apart from the World's Fairs, but it was the World's Fairs it was emulating. The theme is industrial film writ large.

Like Futurama above, there was ambition and wonder at EPCOT Center, but little laughter, thrill, fear, or tug of the heart-sting to be found. Dreamfinder tells us of such things, but they're presented more as concepts. Craftsmanship aside, Disney still left many of its most important storytelling tools in the toolbox.

Narration is impersonal. Moving about on a glorified conveyor belt puts efficiency above all else and makes it feel less like a ride, and more like a manufacturing process. Here we aren't the guests so much as the product. Companies paid big money to have us hear their message. Communication/Phones. Energy/Oil. Motion/Cars. Imagination/Film. Land/Food.

If Star-Lord wants to give me a tour of the Galaxy then fine. I'd love to see a supernova in person. Feel the force of a black hole. Explore colorful Nebulas . I'm not sure what where getting, but I could see it work. Besides, you don't have to sell me on Guardians of the Galaxy becaue I've already bought it.

World of Motion told me it was fun to be free, but Test Track's outdoor loop made me believe it. I think Horizons, Energy, and Spaceship Earth each included footage of the space shuttle taking off- Mission Space put me on it.

Thank you for this. Kinda how I feel about older Epcot videos. I have always struggled to explain how I feel with the original EPCOT Center as a theme park but you nailed it. Honestly, for the old Future Workd model to work for me it would have to be significantly changed every 3 years or so which is financially not possible. I think a few omnimover rides with AAs teaching me the exact same thing as I slowly roll by I can handle. But half a park full of them is too much of the same thing. Some really like that but I need more ride variety. It’s why I love DAK so much. Each area is anchored by a unique E-Ticket attraction.

I believe that the message, or the greater purpose, that original EPCOT Center achieved is achievable in other ways than an onslaught of omnimover or slow moving boat rides where scenes are being described to the riders. I think that there was also this appreciation of engineering over aesthetic. There are many diehard EPCOT Center fans that see beyond the ride scenes and love things like the moving theater in Energy, or the physics behind an omnimover that rotates up into a giant sphere. I would guess that the majority of guests don’t even think about that. After a while, a slow moving omnimover traveling past slow moving AAs is just that, regardless of the motion base or engineering feat involved. I am interested to see some of these changes that are coming. But that is me.

 

[SaveDinosaur]

Mission Space put me on it

They did it by making you watch a low quality screen with a tight cabinet?

 

[SaveDinosaur]

When they originally built EPCOT they made some very big mistakes which have caused the changes we now see in that park. The rides lacked memorable IP and mental or physical excitement.

Horizons and World of Motion were slow moving tours that appealed to intellect only. There was very little emotional connection to the guests at least in my opinion.

Energy destroyed the thrill of experiencing dinosaurs by putting a boring movie in front and behind the real experience the guests wanted. I rode those rides dozens of times and did enjoy them but to this day I can't say I ever emotionally bonded with any part of the rides.

I did dream of living long enough to see those futures but that's about as far as I can say I went internally. Go on name any of the characters in those original rides.

The IP could have been original ideas and not as we see IP today. For instance after riding the haunted house you remember seeing Madam Leota and the Bride and the Hitchhiking ghost, The best EPCOT had was Figment and Dreamfinder.

Then there's World Showcase a mall with a "c" ride, 3 movies (2 you have to stand for) and an "E" ticket.

They have had forty years to address this and have done almost nothing. Maelstrom now Frozen, and a Three Caballeros overlay.

The things they could have done like a Matterhorn attraction or a Pinocchio or Snow White Boat ride to fill out the park with Disney tried and true IP remain unrealized.

If they would have added a dark ride to Italy and one to Germany plus a Rollercoaster in Japan or as a new country like Switzerland and a ride in England like Poppins and a log ride in Canada the time between new additions would have been an average of 8 years and the cost would have been about 70 million a year.

No one would even be complaining about changing the park today.

It's funny how you say that Dreamfinder and Figment weren't that popular... They had a Meet and Greet for the all the years of operation of the original ride, they just starred some Marvel comics and when Disney tried to take Figment out people were furious...


You say that Horizons appealed to Intellect only but everyone that have ridden it as a child has fond memory's of it and always post here, YouTube and other forums as how it was one of their favorite rides as a child...


I am sorry but if EPCOT CENTER were boring and for adults only it wouldn't have the biggest fan base of all of the parks in Florida...

 

[BWDVCkidsince96]

We just got back from a trip to WDW with our 16 month old boy. I was expecting that Epcot and MGM would be the least entertaining for him at that age and we would spend most of our time in AK and MK, but MGM actually was pretty fun. Epcot however was shockingly un-fun for a toddler. I understand the theme of Epcot. I am an Epcot purist. I wanted the wand gone. I think Test Track 2.0 is idiotic. I wish Spaceship Earth would redo the second half of the ride to be about the future again and periodically update it. I don't even think Soarin fully fits with the theme of Epcot although I guess now we are Soarin over the WORLD so it fits with WORLD showcase and I guess we see the land so that is why it is in the Land. I miss Universe of Energy, that's how lame I am. I also vaguely remember a slow moving ride with caveman footprints on the wall? Did I dream that up?

That all being said, I think there is something to be said for bringing in kids rides, even disney movie themed kids rides (gasp). I don't really oppose Frozen in Norway (despite loving Maelstrom) because it brings little kids into the world showcase. They get excited to go into Norway, and therefore experience the pavilion. They need to bring kids into Epcot. Without these rides, right now there is very little that kids can do in Epcot. All we could do was do rider swap on the big rides, ride Nemo, Frozen, and Imagination, and in theory wait on line for the character spots (no thank you). Ratatouille will bring kids over to France. Guardians of the Galaxy will bring in young people although not kids persay. The (possibly naive) hope is that by bringing these people in, they will stick around to enjoy the other more traditional Epcot elements, or those that remain at least.

Is it possible that they don't invest in futuristic type rides for future world at this point because technology advances so quickly that they fear their rides will become obsolete too quickly to recoup their investment (like the original spaceship earth basically showing FaceTime as the technology of the future?). i personally think that is fun, to see reality catch up to epcot, but maybe it is too expensive of a game to play?

Sorry if this post was redundant. I couldn't read all 100 pages of posts to catch up.

PS they gotta get those dolphins out of the Seas before the Sea World protesters catch on. I asked a cast member "are they rescued dolphins?" and she very shortly said "no" and walked away as if instructed to not engage that type of conversation lol.

 

[trainplane3]

i personally think that is fun, to see reality catch up to epcot, but maybe it is too expensive of a game to play?

I'll agree with that. It's a expensive game they've stopped playing. If you need confirmation on that, look at Innoventions. Communicore got old, they refurb'd it to Innoventions. Innoventions got old, they gave up. To add, it's partially because companies don't have the need/want to advertise in parks as much anymore thanks to the internet and other services that are cheaper and can hit a larger audience.

One of my favorite things to look at is this:

How much of the tech in there is used on a daily basis by us but seemed far off back then? Answer: All of it.

The other thing that hurts is the lack of original, attraction only music/theme songs we'll probably have in the future. The more IP we get, the more reworked movie soundtracks we'll have in the parks.

 

[Rich Brownn]

We just got back from a trip to WDW with our 16 month old boy. I was expecting that Epcot and MGM would be the least entertaining for him at that age and we would spend most of our time in AK and MK, but MGM actually was pretty fun. Epcot however was shockingly un-fun for a toddler. I understand the theme of Epcot. I am an Epcot purist. I wanted the wand gone. I think Test Track 2.0 is idiotic. I wish Spaceship Earth would redo the second half of the ride to be about the future again and periodically update it. I don't even think Soarin fully fits with the theme of Epcot although I guess now we are Soarin over the WORLD so it fits with WORLD showcase and I guess we see the land so that is why it is in the Land. I miss Universe of Energy, that's how lame I am. I also vaguely remember a slow moving ride with caveman footprints on the wall? Did I dream that up?

That all being said, I think there is something to be said for bringing in kids rides, even disney movie themed kids rides (gasp). I don't really oppose Frozen in Norway (despite loving Maelstrom) because it brings little kids into the world showcase. They get excited to go into Norway, and therefore experience the pavilion. They need to bring kids into Epcot. Without these rides, right now there is very little that kids can do in Epcot. All we could do was do rider swap on the big rides, ride Nemo, Frozen, and Imagination, and in theory wait on line for the character spots (no thank you). Ratatouille will bring kids over to France. Guardians of the Galaxy will bring in young people although not kids persay. The (possibly naive) hope is that by bringing these people in, they will stick around to enjoy the other more traditional Epcot elements, or those that remain at least.

Is it possible that they don't invest in futuristic type rides for future world at this point because technology advances so quickly that they fear their rides will become obsolete too quickly to recoup their investment (like the original spaceship earth basically showing FaceTime as the technology of the future?). i personally think that is fun, to see reality catch up to epcot, but maybe it is too expensive of a game to play?

Sorry if this post was redundant. I couldn't read all 100 pages of posts to catch up.

PS they gotta get those dolphins out of the Seas before the Sea World protesters catch on. I asked a cast member "are they rescued dolphins?" and she very shortly said "no" and walked away as if instructed to not engage that type of conversation lol.

The way the rides were designed they were fairly easy to update in terms of future - the majority of the rides (AAs etc) were about the past. Then there was usually a short transition through the present to the future, which was usually a film (Energy, WoM, Seas) or an easily changed static display of some sort (Spaceship Earth, CommuniCore, Wonders of Life). The two exceptions were Horizons (the majority of the ride was the future - but set way out so now to become dated) and Imagination, which really had nothing to do with the future.

 

[brb1006]

Touché!

Don't forget the Water Ending Post-Show

 

[marni1971]

Don't forget the Water Ending Post-Show

I didn’t

 

[Sir_Cliff]

Let me paint you a picture of what I recall about Bob Chapek being presented to be as a company person. I worked in training Travel Agents who wanted to sell Disney. In this we showed the new hires a video about different aspects of the company including on property resorts owned by DIsney, and some owned and operated by third parties. A segment of the video was about the parks' hard ticketed events, one of which being Not So Scary Halloween Party, in it Bob said "Imagine the dissapointed faces of children being asked to leave the Magic Kingdom as they see other children coming into the Magic Kingdom in costume, all because you forgot to mention it as an upgrade to their day."
It is a business, and if upcharge hard ticket events a business model they want to keep pushing so be it, but to insult your new cast by scaring or guilting them is insanely unethicaly ugly to me.

Ugh, that kind of comment is what makes me understand why some people simply hate Disney. Sure, it's a business, etc, etc. But Chapek is belling the cat there about Disney's strategy of first milking parents out of huge amounts of money to take their kids to WDW, then adding all these little extra upcharge experiences and trying to guilt parents into paying yet more so their kids don't miss out.

Again, it's not a shock and I don't think Chapek invented this idea. Still, the notion of Disney executives sitting around thinking about how to use disappointed children as a sales tool is kind of sick.

 

[brb1006]

I didn’t

Seeing your tribute video again really makes me miss the days when attractions actually had more stuff to do once you ride is finished. Two post-shows at World of Motion, and two for the original Journey Into Imagination attraction (Imageworks followed by Magic Journeys). Even the exit to Horizons was beautifully designed. The standard "exit through the gift shop" would usually be at the very end for some attractions of Epcot.

 

[MuteSuperstar]

Again, it's not a shock and I don't think Chapek invented this idea. Still, the notion of Disney executives sitting around thinking about how to use disappointed children as a sales tool is kind of sick.

Welcome to modern Corporate America. Despite the endless "Disney is a Business" prattle (as though that excuses anything and everything), it is possible to still run a successful company without contempt for your customers. Not much evidence of it these days, for sure. And a lot of customers, being the temporarily embarrassed billionaires that they fancy themselves, seem to enjoy and encourage the contempt, so here we are.

Wonder how far away we are from more hard-ticket upcharges infiltrating Epcot.