Bob Chapek Confirms Disney Will Overhaul Epcot

[Missing20K]

I did not include those since they would be more counter-EPCOT. Jane seemed to be all about the "messy vitality" to which the "architecture of reassurance" is opposed. Lynch though translates well to the organization of theme parks.

Jacobs I would tend to agree with being sort of "anti" EPCOT but it still brings up many of the issues they were trying to solve with urban planning akin to EPCOT. It proposed different solutions, certainly, but the end goals remained the same. I only brought it up as I think it's a good primer for studying urban systems.

And yes, the Lynch book is one of my favorites.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Jacobs I would tend to agree with being sort of "anti" EPCOT but it still brings up many of the issues they were trying to solve with urban planning akin to EPCOT. It proposed different solutions, certainly, but the end goals remained the same. I only brought it up as I think it's a good primer for studying urban systems.

And yes, the Lynch book is one of my favorites.

Since you brought up Jacobs, and we are also discussing municipal power, for the truly adventurous I will also add The Power Broker: Robert Moses and the Fall of New York by Robert A. Caro. At a mere 1,344 pages, it is quite the read.

*For those who may recognize the name, Robert Moses was the president of 1964 - 196 New York World's Fair and [Disney-related] famously said he would not open the fair without Mr. Lincoln.

 

[trainplane3]

What if they really go all in on the anniversary events after they IP everything? Example: Instead of having classic loops playing on a few pavilions they'll play on all of them, bringing back the logos for one day (or even that week), walk around Dreamfinder, a real exhibit (like the 25th) etc. instead of the kinda sorta throwback but not going all the way with it.

It'd at least be a park I'd want to visit every 5 years then.

 

[Missing20K]

Since you brought up Jacobs, and we are also discussing municipal power, for the truly adventurous I will also add The Power Broker: Robert Moses and the Fall of New York by Robert A. Caro. At a mere 1,344 pages, it is quite the read.

It's been sitting on my shelf for like 3 years, snickering, laughing at me, making snide remarks about my lack of mental fortitude. Someday I keep telling myself, someday. And then I order three more books on amazon and forget all about it.

 

[UpAllNight]

I’m actually in the camp that is looking forward to Guardians...but I don’t yet see evidence of Disney “dreaming big” here. This is dragging on.

 

[HauntedPirate]

That is fancy sounding. I wonder if it all fits on the name tag?

They shorten it down to:
John
Toadie

 

[jt04]

You know, I never thought about it until now, but it's quite ironic that the father of the suburban mall influenced the man who influenced a theme park that is turning into a pseudo-suburban mall.

I think Disney prefers that we refer to such things as The Circle of Life.

 

[HauntedMansionFLA]

“Invest in the parks”!!!!!!! Disney makes an announcement of numerous attractions to add capacity - people go insane.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Ok...you guys get the award for wierdest tangent ever: urban planning theory.

Bravo

 

[jt04]

Ok...you guys get the award for wierdest tangent ever: urban planning theory.

Bravo

I started it!

*pats self on back*

 

[doctornick]

“Invest in the parks”!!!!!!! Disney makes an announcement of numerous attractions to add capacity - people go insane.

To be fair... what attractions did Disney announce to "add capacity"? Everything announced over the weekend was a replacement (the BatB sing along is a sorta addition, but doesn't really add capacity).

Yes, WDW is getting some true expansions that add capacity (e.g. Ratatouille, Tron) but nothing recently announced.

 

[HauntedMansionFLA]

To be fair... what attractions did Disney announce to "add capacity"? Everything announced over the weekend was a replacement (the BatB sing along is a sorta addition, but doesn't really add capacity).

Yes, WDW is getting some true expansions that add capacity (e.g. Ratatouille, Tron) but nothing recently announced.

You got me on that one.

 

[flynnibus]

Oh good gosh. This is the same tired nonsense people said when radio was invented. And then when tv was invented.

Except neither of those things is anything like what the smartphone has done to how people function, the amount of time spent with them, or radically changing how people communicate bidirectionally.

Radio and TV were transformational of course.. the smartphone is another transformation, but different in its own right.

 

[flynnibus]

Since when is learning about the way humans and nature co-exist a bore? This is a prime example of the degradation of society. But of course this is to be expected when many children think food just magically appears at the super market and their parents are too lazy to teach them otherwise. Its sickening you make such broad statements.

No, it's a rise of the expectation of what a presentation needs because of the rise of everything else around them. For instance, if you show them video content in a format they find 12yr olds can do better than.. with minimal effort... It is going to impact their impression and willingness to consume said content.

Kids today have so much access to media and virtual experiences that simply floating through a greenhouse listening to a recorded spiel isn't going to be engaging at all. The message is relevant, but it will never really resonate with the audience because the delivery is so behind what they are accustomed to now.

Living with the Land comes off as slow, fake, and yawn inspiring. At least when conceived it was a working lab that was doing things that the public had largely never heard of before.. or even thought possible. So the preachy bits at least got washed down with some 'cooliness' or wow factor. Now... it's got none of that and looks way more fake than it probably actually is.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

No, it's a rise of the expectation of what a presentation needs because of the rise of everything else around them. For instance, if you show them video content in a format they find 12yr olds can do better than.. with minimal effort... It is going to impact their impression and willingness to consume said content.

Kids today have so much access to media and virtual experiences that simply floating through a greenhouse listening to a recorded spiel isn't going to be engaging at all. The message is relevant, but it will never really resonate with the audience because the delivery is so behind what they are accustomed to now.

Living with the Land comes off as slow, fake, and yawn inspiring. At least when conceived it was a working lab that was doing things that the public had largely never heard of before.. or even thought possible. So the preachy bits at least got washed down with some 'cooliness' or wow factor. Now... it's got none of that and looks way more fake than it probably actually is.

This relates to what I’ve said about Epcot since Eisner: the Internet broke it.

Edutainment was in trouble the minute www rendered tolerating boredom and lack of access to all knowledge no longer acceptable. There’s no mystery.

 

[MarkTwain]

This relates to what I’ve said about Epcot since Eisner: the Internet broke it.

Edutainment was in trouble the minute www rendered tolerating boredom and lack of access to all knowledge no longer acceptable. There’s no mystery.

This is an interesting argument that's been bandied around before, and maybe one with merit. I think this why Epcot succeeds the most with guests today when it focuses on immersion, rather then just presenting dioramas with a voiceover. People eat up Soarin and Test Track because they provide major sensory experiences, which could possibly also be used as teaching moments about nature or design. It's also why the dinosaur dioramas were the most memorable parts of UoE despite their overall lack of relevance to the theme of the attraction.

That's one thing the internet can't do yet, bringing people INTO the educational experiences. In a brighter, alternate timeline, maybe Disney would have focused on that going forward. I'd love to see what a 21st century take on Adventures thru Inner Space could be like.

 

[aliceismad]

This is an interesting argument that's been bandied around before, and maybe one with merit. I think this why Epcot succeeds the most with guests today when it focuses on immersion, rather then just presenting dioramas with a voiceover. People eat up Soarin and Test Track because they provide major sensory experiences, which could possibly also be used as teaching moments about nature or design. It's also why the dinosaur dioramas were the most memorable parts of UoE despite their overall lack of relevance to the theme of the attraction.

That's one thing the internet can't do yet, bringing people INTO the educational experiences. In a brighter, alternate timeline, maybe Disney would have focused on that going forward. I'd love to see what a 21st century take on Adventures thru Inner Space could be like.

I agree that Disney is most successful when the sense of immersion is strongest. I don't think you have to have a high-thrills ride to be entertaining, but you have to make it feel magical or larger than life somehow.

 

[SirLink]

“Invest in the parks”!!!!!!! Disney makes an announcement of numerous attractions to add capacity - people go insane.

It says more about current global society that doesn't want to learn it want to consume consume and consume. Thats why they put Lex in charge to push more IP from WDAS and PIXAR.

The conceit of that second show how Disney music inspires the world shows the arrogance of Disney. How music from Coco has inspired Mexican populace? Nope it is the 1000s of years worth music from the Aztecs.

 

[CinematicFusion]

I have no qualms with Rat because nothing of substance is being lost, other than some site lines. Right now my fury is over the fact we are losing Reflections of Earth to yet another greatest hits show, in a park where it absolutely doesn't belong

The "Greatest Hits Show" is a limited time show right? Until the new 2020 show comes out. "A Celebration of Disney Music 2020 fireworks show that Disney says will be a transformative spectacular, a celebration of how Disney music inspires park guests from all over the world. The new show will feature massive floating set pieces on World Showcase Lagoon, custom-built LED panels, choreographed moving fountains, lights, pyrotechnics, and lasers."

Illuminations opened in 1999 and had a 20 year run. Will the new show be good? I don't know. But I think if they take the concept of what made Illuminations great and enhance it with todays tech, I think it could be quite a show. Yes...It's going to use Favorite Disney songs to reflect different countries. Some won't like that....some it will be exactly what they wished for. After all...you are paying for a Disney trip.

Reality is Harry Potter showed how powerful IP's could be...which seems like a no brainer.
Disney of all people didn't see it, there idea for Harry Potter according to legend were two attractions. Basically, it was going to be Buzz Lightyear. You were going to be in an Omnimover attraction with a wand instead of a gun, and you were moving through basically a Dark Arts teaching class. The other aspect was going to be a Care of Magical Creatures Petting Zoo.

Universal changed it all. They threw big money at an IP and bet a big audience would come. It worked. Since then, Disney has revamped Fantasy Land, created Avatar Land and Toy Story Land, reworked Tower of Terror in DL to Guardians of the Galaxy – Mission: BREAKOUT (and it's a huge hit), creating Star War Land with concept hotel, Mickey & Minnie’s Runaway Railway, Tron Coaster. Frozen Land and Marvel Land are coming to Paris. (From Times article) "Each of Disney’s six theme park resorts around the world is undergoing major expansion, along with Disney Cruise Line. Michael Nathanson, a longtime media analyst, estimates that Disney will spend $24 billion on new attractions, hotels and ships over the next five years. That’s more than Disney paid for Pixar, Marvel and Lucasfilm combined. "

Epcot is feeling this with Frozen ride, Ratatouille ride, Guardians of the Galaxy ride. Rumors of Jungle Book, Mary Poppins, Coco, Inside Out revamp of Imagination are all blue skied,been dreamed about, potentially coming to the park. Whether those come to the park or not, it's where the mindset is now. Create a world where an audience can get lost in their favorite moments from Disney's Ip vault...and it's a LARGE vault.
Epcot is changing and the World's Fair concept of future world, once grand it its design circa 1982-1988, is now a reflection of what once was. Future world, now old and dated feels like it's out of H.G. Well's Time Machine or the Dharma initiative from Lost.
The future is clear...Disney is willing to spend big money to enhance their parks with IPs they own. I haven't seen this sort of build out since they built EPCOT back in 1982.
It's impressive....and it's working.
For the 2018 fiscal year, Walt Disney Parks and Resorts had an operating profit of $4.5 billion, an increase of more than 100 percent from five years earlier.

Many will love Disney's new direction, some won't. But the ship is sailing at full speed and the future of the parks is clear.
After all, theme parks are a business and it's about making money and making an enjoyable experience for the majority of guest. If one of those concepts fail....the park closes. Guest aren't happy, they won't show up.

 

[HauntedPirate]

Wait... Disney is a business? I'm glad someone pointed that out.