Bob Chapek Confirms Disney Will Overhaul Epcot

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Prequel foul...

Because they Abrams/Kennedy nonsense continues to slide into the oblivion of bad memories...doesn’t mean the prequels are now worthy of reference...

They sucked too

 

[ChrisFL]

Thank you for bringing up Disney Sea because I think it brings up some interesting parallels with EPCOT Center.

Both parks were hugely ambitious second-resort parks that sought to be more mature than their nearby Castle park.

But look at what happened post-opening:
Even though this park opened with some princesses and classic Disney characters, more were added.
Perfectly amazing and original shows were replaced with character-centric ones.
The first major additions were more thrill based- Tower of Terror/ Raging Spirits.
Then came even more Disney IP in the form of Toy Story/Jasmine/Finding Dory.

The park is in no way a failure, though it still loses to it's sister park next door attendance wise. And oddly enough, despite being themed to the nines, two of it's biggest hits early on were Gyoza sausage buns and Duffy- where might that park be without those revenue streams?

To me, nothing sums up the IP debate more than the Sinbad ride. It is not tied to an IP, though it is based on an existing story. But it is a pure theme park entity. And it looked spectacular. The true successor to Pirates of the Caribbean in scope, storytelling, and technology.
And it wasn't popular.
They gave it a great refurb- adding a Menkin song and a cute sidekick. Looks amazing.
And it's a walk on.

I'm not trying to say that any of these changes made to this park were correct, but much like EPCOT, they saw a need to make them.

(Note- I have not been lucky enough to make it to TDS yet. I believe the info here is correct, but feel free to correct me if any of it isn't.)

This is pretty accurate overall I'd say (I've been to Japan and DisneySea 5 times since 2009)

I think one problem is that, despite my saying that DisneySea is by far the most beautiful park in the world, if you're going by attraction count, it's still relatively small compared to Disneyland next door (for NOW, the 3 new lands being open soon will really help make it a very good sized park with a great lineup.

It was also designed as a young couples/adults park which you could also say about the original EPCOT Center.

However DisneySea has a much more similar vibe to a "standard" Disney style park than EPCOT Center did, which HAD to focus on certain things unique to itself, realistic future technology, etc. and relied on the sponsors to help with that. But then the sponsors began leaving for easier opportunities elsewhere...

 

[sedati]

One last thought for tonight (my apologies, the later in the evening I post, the longer they get)

Maelstrom...

I think every time I rode this we waited an hour. The queue was a basic switchback with minimal theme.
The ride was four minutes, and offered some mild thrills along with some overly-ambitious uses of forced-perspective to compensate for its small scale show-scenes.
Not the greatest ride, but fun, and a must do in World Showcase.

Following the ride we were penned into a charming waiting area for the second half of the experience- The Spirit of Norway.
The film was only six minutes long and while lacked any originality or creativity in it's presentation, it was a 70mm print with great sound and production value. Besides, it was six more minutes to rest your feet and enjoy the air-conditioning.

Though this little bit of edutainment came with minimal wait, it was skipped over by most people. This wasn't supposed to be bypassed, but over time the trend became unavoidable, and eventually was offered as a legit option. People would wait an hour for a short ride, but wouldn't sit through a film that we basically just got a free fast-pass for. (Perhaps the ride should have ended with the boats parking themselves into a group from which we were forced to watch the film before disembarking similar to how the Great Movie Ride ended.)

A similar problem emerged at The Living Seas to my great dismay. "The Seas" was an amazing film. I get chills watching Martins Vid of it. I was honestly upset when skipping it became an option and I was consistently outvoted over watching it.

So I ask you- as much as the length of EPCOT Center's masterpieces were, what would have happened if other experiences had been segmented and become more optional? Imagine if "Universe of Energy" was split up. Would people continue sitting through the film in the main theater if they could just skip to the dinosaurs? And what about the second theater/finale?

Disney MGM studios had a similar problem. The tours started off long and ambitious, and while people appreciated that on the first go-round, this did not necessarily make for repeatable experiences. They thought the solution was to segment them, but this triggered a death-knell where the average guests began skipping past more and more.

What does it mean when a paying guest wants less out of an attraction?

What is the better investment, a long attraction with little repeatability and empty queues, or a short attraction with high repeatability and long full queues? Then take into account the need most longer Epcot/MGM style attractions have shown need to be more frequently refreshed and funded just to stay relevant whereas the Magic Kingdom attractions really only need to be maintained as-is.

 

[jaxonp]

World showcase is Epcot to me. The rest of the park has been a joke 15 years or so. World showcase doesn’t seem in danger of any bad changes tbh. Idf is staying.. rat is welcomed, china update would be nice but disappointed it’ll be ip focused.

 

[ChrisFL]

A similar problem emerged at The Living Seas to my great dismay. "The Seas" was an amazing film. I get chills watching Martins Vid of it. I was honestly ****ed when skipping it became an option and I was consistently outvoted over watching it..

Agreed 100%, the Seas movie was (and is) incredible for it's short 8 minute run time. It really captured the mysticism of the oceans, and the final part that leads directly the sea base alpha hydrolator room where you're about to enter was just amazing

 

[marni1971]

Long post incoming.

Martin, do you think they would be stupid enough to ever remove the word "Epcot" from the name of the park entirely.

At the moment. No. They seem to currently be on a damage limitation drive, desperate to convince us they’re not continuing to change the park out of all recognition.

 

[marni1971]

What’s in store for Wonders, Imagination, SSE, Inventions, Spine project and the tombstones in the front entrance? More toward MK 2.0?

Wonders possibly, Imag undecided, SSE I don’t know (it’s a year earlier than I expected if reports are correct), spine undecided but could go either way depending on which version is chosen, tombstones should still go.

 

[trainplane3]

Very cool! Where did you get them?

Custom made using the logos from the Wikipedia pages. Had to black out the colored parts, smooth out the image, then upload to Max Keyboard. Was pricey but with how much I have invested in PC stuff, it was worth it. It finally gave me a reason to use other colors on my keyboard as well.

The video is from Backdoor Disney FYI.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

They must think we're idiots. It's already unrecognizable from even just a few years ago. Innoventions shuttered, UoE gone, Frozen in Norway, etc.

We are idiots.

This point can’t be stressed enough. I’d go through the list of evidence...but the judge has already ruled in my favor and went to have his liquid lunch already

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Wonders possibly, Imag undecided, SSE I don’t know (it’s a year earlier than I expected if reports are correct), spine undecided but could go either way depending on which version is chosen, tombstones should still go.

....PCQ 99.999998%

 

[montyz81]

Wonders possibly, Imag undecided, SSE I don’t know (it’s a year earlier than I expected if reports are correct), spine undecided but could go either way depending on which version is chosen, tombstones should still go.

I thought SSE was going to get a scene makeover but preserve the communications theme and still remain IP-less.

 

[jt04]

Wonders possibly, Imag undecided, SSE I don’t know (it’s a year earlier than I expected if reports are correct), spine undecided but could go either way depending on which version is chosen, tombstones should still go.

Well at least they decided on something (tombstones).

 

[Bacon]

I emailed chapek today this is what I said

Hello, Mr. Chapek. I’ve been a Disney fan for as long as I can remember and I love epcot and everything it means. But I can’t help but feel sad when I saw the news that Epcot was getting a new show with Disney’s iconic Characters and stories. Epcot forever feels like a farewell to what we used to know Epcot as. I do realize this email will probably have no impact on the Walt Disney Company’s decision on the matter. But Please listen to what I’m about to say. I stand for Me and countless others online who say Epcot should not be IP based but instead about human advancement and Achievement. Not about Cartoon rats in Paris or a snow queen in Norway or a talking tree and a raccoon in an area about human advancement and what a realistic future could be. Epcot Forever will be a great show. I can bet that now. But it will be the end of Epcot’s story... Epcot won’t be Epcot once Epcot Forever is gone. Please keep Epcot Forever and save the future of Epcot ~ Signed a Shareholder of the Walt Disney Company...

 

[jt04]

We are idiots.

This point can’t be stressed enough. I’d go through the list of evidence...but the judge has already ruled in my favor and went to have his liquid lunch already

Please, no more schadenfreude, I'm stuffed.

 

[larryz]

Why so serious?

 

[jt04]

I emailed chapek today this is what I said

Hello, Mr. Chapek. I’ve been a Disney fan for as long as I can remember and I love epcot and everything it means. But I can’t help but feel sad when I saw the news that Epcot was getting a new show with Disney’s iconic Characters and stories. Epcot forever feels like a farewell to what we used to know Epcot as. I do realize this email will probably have no impact on the Walt Disney Company’s decision on the matter. But Please listen to what I’m about to say. I stand for Me and countless others online who say Epcot should not be IP based but instead about human advancement and Achievement. Not about Cartoon rats in Paris or a snow queen in Norway or a talking tree and a raccoon in an area about human advancement and what a realistic future could be. Epcot Forever will be a great show. I can bet that now. But it will be the end of Epcot’s story... Epcot won’t be Epcot once Epcot Forever is gone. Please keep Epcot Forever and save the future of Epcot ~ Signed a Shareholder of the Walt Disney Company...

I am afraid two factors are not in your favor. First, the global economy and the resulting ease of travel mean WS must change. 1982 is so 1982. There is no Iron Curtain. China is open. Everything is entirely different.

Second, the global economy precludes FW from being cutting edge as it was originally. Protecting Intellectual Property is an extremely real concern for any potential sponsor.

Chapek can't say all this but I have a hunch he would if he could. IMO.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Which Disney? Walt’s vision of E.P.C.O.T. or corporate Disney who don’t know their *** from a hole in the ground?

Neither? Both? I'm a sucker for things like Golden Dream and Canada (You're a Lifetime Journey), but Walt's vision of E.P.C.O.T. was sheer lunacy. It was a communist Utopia spouted by a man who spent a good chunk of his life denouncing communism.

 

[monothingie]

Neither? Both? I'm a sucker for things like Golden Dream and Canada (You're a Lifetime Journey), but Walt's vision of E.P.C.O.T. was sheer lunacy. It was a communist Utopia spouted by a man who spent a good chunk of his life denouncing communism.

Well, you're always welcome to dig up investors, start your own entertainment company, and build your own theme parks that suites your creative vision.

 

[jt04]

Neither? Both? I'm a sucker for things like Golden Dream and Canada (You're a Lifetime Journey), but Walt's vision of E.P.C.O.T. was sheer lunacy. It was a communist Utopia spouted by a man who spent a good chunk of his life denouncing communism.

i have a theory. Take it with a grain of salt. But could Walt's original plan have just been a way for him to get Florida to approve Reedy Creek and more?

 

[DreamfinderGuy]

Okay, I know it's stupid to get emotional over a theme park, but I'd like to share my story too, in remembrance of Epcot. This is going to be a VERY long post, so just keep scrolling if you don't want to read it all

My first visit to this park came in 2007, and I remember next to nothing about it. The ONLY memory I have was going into The Seas, which I believe was still hybrid Nemo/TLS at the time (this was very early into 2007). I forgot about the park and went on with my life, until 2012. This time, my class at school had a field trip scheduled to Epcot. I brought home my permission slip, and my mom was overjoyed to go with me. She bought our tickets, and we went. However, it wasn't the park she knew. I vividly remember this trip, but what I didn't remember is my mom's disgust that she tried to hold in so that I could have my joy. She later told me how much she missed Horizons, although I loved Mission: Space, how confused she was to walk into Wonders with nothing in there anymore, how she missed those Radok screens when we did Ellen, how thrilled she was that I was too short for TT 1.0 (She didn't like it, and was also still upset over the closure of WoM), and above all what really stuck with me was how disgusted she was at Journey. She specifically told me that she remembered how magical it was, and that it was replaced with a toilet on the ceiling. My School left the park at 6 PM, and my mom had been warning me for months that we probably wouldn't stay as long as my school. We stayed and watched Illuminations. It was a magical moment. At the end of the night, I was able to pick one souvenir, and I should've known then that it was a sign of things to come. I walked out of that park with a Figment plushie, and as a happy kiddo. Flash forward to early 2016, and the most unlikely thing draws me back to Disney. I'm scrolling through my YouTube feed and all of the sudden some Urbex videos pop up. I remember specifically ATW's Nick Studios video, and I was so surprised that big companies would leave major pieces of their history to rot. I became highly interested in it. I talked with my mom for hours about how it peaked my interest, and she started spouting names of old attractions that are gone, none of which I knew anything about. I heard "Delta Dreamflight", "Horizons", "Mr. Toad's Wild Ride", and more come out of her mouth. I went to sleep, and arose the next day with it still fresh on my mind. My mom told me to pull up a POV of Horizons that morning, and I did. All of the sudden a slew of memories came flooding back to her, and I was stunned by how absolutely magical it looked, even in the 1998 Hi-8 Camcorder quality. We stumbled upon Martin's original tribute, and watched the whole thing. I was captivated. I went on to do my own research, and became absolutely amazed at the park's history. I began to love Epcot, despite not being there for nearly half a decade. I discovered Wonders, Spaceship Earth, World of Motion, Imagination, and the list goes on and on and on. I binge watched all of Martin's tributes, and became a self-acclaimed expert on it. My mom could see it was my new passion, and it just so happened to be one of her former passions. We went to DisneyQuest later that year, and my mom drove me into the Epcot parking entrance, telling the people that she "made a wrong turn" just so I could see Spaceship Earth. A month later we bought an AP, and the history I've read about and seen and have been stuffing my brain with for half a year came to life. I saw Wonders, I rode Energy, I saw the old Horizons planter, I saw TT and recognized the structure of WoM, I rode SSE and pointed out all the remnants, etc. It was magical. I was sparked and inspired by the place, just by seeing the history of the park come to life. Mind you, I was 12 at the time. Sooner or later though, I noticed that Epcot and EPCOT Center are two completely different things, the latter of which was already erased. So I was saddened and hopeful that we could see it return in some form. I was dead wrong. I enjoyed the remnants that were there, but all of the sudden they were disappearing. Innoventions West closed, then Innoventions East. All of the sudden my park was being taken from me. D23 Expo 2017 introduced me to Bob Chapek, and the new Epcot overhaul. I was thrilled! He was going to return the park to it's original vision and fix everything! Then Ellen's Energy Adventure was gone, and so was my Capcom, my last enjoyment factor of Mission: Space. Then SSE lost it's sponsor, and everything started to go downhill. I wondered why he wasn't doing anything to the abandoned buildings, and what GotG had to do with Epcot at all. Then it hit me, that he was lying. I was kinda heartbroken, and then took a minute to realize that my happy place was now a graveyard. This Destination D has finally done it in for me. Once SSE goes down, I don't plan on going back any time soon. I'm sorry Epcot, but you really did make and break me. Epcot gave me a passion for architecture, it inspired me for the future. It meant a ton to me. Here I am today, at 14, STILL A KID, THE TARGET AUDIENCE CHAPEK IS GOING FOR, and I see it becoming Magic Kingdom two. I'm so sorry, but this park was ripped away from me and it just isn't fair. Sorry if this derailed anything, because like eight posts got made in the amount of time it took me to type this. Thanks for listening folks...


(Oh, and before anyone says anything, I'm not 36. I put in 10/1/82 as my birth date because I'm a nerd. Watch me get banned from WDWMagic now over it)