Kman101
Well-Known Member
I'd like them to stop announcing stuff before things have been 'worked out' ...
-
Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.
Bob Chapek Confirms Disney Will Overhaul Epcot
- Thread starter Bacon
- Start date
I'd like them to stop announcing stuff before things have been 'worked out' ...
Kman101
Well-Known Member
I think we're used to other parks laying out their plans, we more or less know what and when and plans are fairly clearly laid out (thanks to our insiders, we're more informed than the normal fan). WDW doesn't announce their stuff in the same way. Heck things annnounced at D23 have a chance at not even happening! lol so I understand the skepticism. I had a lot of good will towards them but they're starting to make me cynical again.
Even Peter said they announce things before they have 'worked things out'. Which is stupid. Be sure this is what you're doing before announcing it.
Bender123
Well-Known Member
With how trashed the Studios is, could you imagine WDW with Epcot virtually closed as well? That's why I would guess the plan is slow and will be very hard to see progress until some other things are done. If everything we know/believe is happening/green lit were to happen, we would have UoE, Imagination, Seas, Innoventions and Mexico closed at once. Work on UK, Japan, Gateway (Skyliner), WoL and France ongoing with cranes everywhere. We would also have the spine shredded.
Considering what a waste of time the Studios has been for the past 24 months, I am somewhat happy if there is slow and consistent progress at Epcot. As long as things keep moving forward, Im fine with it. When there is no progress, then we have problems.
Brad Bishop
Well-Known Member
I'm going to disagree with this because we haven't seen Disney stick to a 10 year plan, yet.
We can look at Universal and see them sticking to their 10-year overhaul plan that they announced a few years back. You can see each step as they work their way around their parks.
Disney? Not so much. Typically what you see at Disney is a 3-phase plan which amounts to:
- phase 1: definitely / very likely
- phase 2: ok / maybe / probably cut back
- phase 3: pie-in-the-sky (it's not going to happen because by the time they're at this point they're way over budget from 1 & 2 and the turnstile numbers are up anyway so 3 gets dropped.
DHS has 3 phases and I'd bet that we never see anything past Toy Story Land (already cut back) and Star Wars.
Disney seems to operate on a "catch up until "good enough""-plan cycle and then it usually fizzles out. The current management haven't shown any signs of changing that mentality and, if nothing else, they err on the side of "don't do it".
You can argue: What about Pandora? What about Rat? What about Guardians? What about Tron?
All of that is playing catchup to 20years of nothing. They're doing it because they have to, not because they want to keep the parks fresh. Pandora was an answer to, "We didn't get Harry Potter," and, "DAK needs something". It wasn't an answer to, "Ok, we got DAK open. How do add things in a timely way so we can expand both our park and our audience?"
Again, if you were to make the argument that Universal was more of a 10-year plan (which it actually is) than a 3-year plan then I'd be right there with you. They not only announced it like that but, as stated a moment ago, you can actually see them doing that. To be fair, they also let their parks languish up until Potter. Universal was very "blah" to me up until 2012. Potter was a great addition but seemed like a one-trick pony until their "refreshing the parks" announcement and then actually doing it.
AJDMB05
Well-Known Member
I think about the Project Gemini overhaul more than I care to admit. I'd love to know the story behind what happened there. Maybe the answer is nothing and all I know is that black and white map-style picture that went around. Some stuff seemed to stick (Soarin' was already planned, Seas just became Nemo instead of Little Mermaid) and some of the more "out there" things (Rainforest Rollercoaster, Time Racers, the Innoventions re-theme) never made it.
Brad Bishop
Well-Known Member
Just FYI: I'm completely on board with this if this is what they're doing. Slow, consistent changes and then when DHS is open they go full force into fixing the rest of it (walls everywhere - it'll suck but be good long term).
I really hope this is what it is but, yeah, I'm cynical with the current management.
Oh.. I should correct myself. We actually did see a 10-year plan under Eisner with the "decade of Disney". So, they have done that in the past and there were a lot of good things (and some bad - but the good far outweighed the bad) that came out of that.
Kman101
Well-Known Member
I'm with you. Was just kinda whining we don't get the types of plans revealed to us that the other parks seem to. It'd be nice to not always have to guess and hope with what they're doing or may do or may cut ... announce it and stick to it.
I want continuous progress. They really need to keep the momentum going. I just worry they think what they're doing at the various parks is "enough" when it isn't. I know we have rumblings of "more to come" but we haven't even gotten most of this stuff up yet ... lol
While not everyone agrees with the direction or choices in the Epcot makeover, I think they're actually recognizing what they need to do (actually add attractions and re-do the hub, though it doesn't need a massive overhaul). With DHS, I'm not so much as unhappy with what's coming as I am that they're not seeming to 'get it' with that park.
Bender123
Well-Known Member
Not really directed at you, but I feel like nothing can make this board happy...WDW is spending into the several billions on current projects and they still get the "penny pinching" argument leveled against them. Im sure there is a plan and Im sure that plan will change over time, but one thing that can not be said is that WDW is not spending money. Sure...I wish they spent more on the day to day show and service, but the updates have been anything but cheap.
Just for reference, the work currently underway or completed I the past 24 months (not including restaurants/minor updates/sometimes downgrades like PotC or American Adventure):
In the parks- Pandora, Toy Story Land, Galaxy Edge, Mickeys RR, Tron coaster, third Midway Mania track, third Soarin, Soarin digital/remake, GotG, Frozen, Happily Ever After and Grand Ave.
Outside the Parks- Skyliner, Disney Springs, complete rebuild of World Drive, various hotel build outs.
WDW is spending a whole heap load of money...it may not be right where we always want it, but they are certainly not being cheap with some things lately.
You're right that WDW isn't holding back on huge Capex outlays and, thus, calling them cheap in that regard is just wrong.
However, there may be some valid criticism that they're wasting too much and not getting their money's worth with all that billions. Although, that's hard for me to judge without looking at an expenditure list.
Also, there may be something to the 'cheapness' when in the ordinary, operating expenses are cut back on the quality of food, or paper goods, or fireside s'mores. It can be maddening when they spend huge amounts on a lot of high quality stuff, and then your run across something very low quality that doesn't need to be that way.
It could well be from when serious plans began to when the final projects are completed.
Dunston
Well-Known Member
This may be an unpopular opinion, but I'm okay with this taking a while to get started. For the next year and a half there will really only be 3.5 parks open because of how much construction there is at Hollywood Studios. As it is now, it really only makes sense to viist Magic Kingom, Animal Kingdom, and EPCOT, and skip Hollywood Studios (unless your trip is a once-in-a-lifetime type thing). If EPCOT becomes a huge construction zone right now, it will be very skippable for 3 years because of Disney's glacial construction pace.
Rodan75
Well-Known Member
Honestly, I think announcing it early was as much about getting fan angst out of the way early. Because otherwise, it made zero sense to announce the Spine stuff this early.
trainplane3
Well-Known Member
I think I'll just set my sights on all of this Epcot spine stuff being done in time for the 50th (for Epcot, not MK).
Maybe it has to do with the whining. Somethings aren’t worked out because the public responded poorly. They are re-worked and probably cut. The projects that survive are good, but there’s still a segment that complains regardless. Remember, the New Fantasyland was re-worked and it finally finished a few years later. The 7 dwarves coaster opened 2 years after the new land opened.
Now, it’s my turn to complain. We are opening 2 kiddie coasters back to back. Let’s open some adult coasters. Oops, that’s Tron and Guardians, but they are IP and not original. Okay, I’ll take them anyways.
prberk
Well-Known Member
I cannot agree more. Walt's original ideas (going back to the 1964 World's Fair, which is the true genesis of EPCOT) always involved building on partnerships with other companies ("the best of American industry" as he called it) to marry his showmanship with their innovation to create a great show that brought about a good mix of flair, fantasy, and wonder -- all in good and appropriate measure.
It's THAT spirit that we who believe that the principles of EPCOT (such as innovation, wonder, discovery, imagination) can and should still be used lament as missing in the current decisions for Epcot.
Would it be the same as for 1982? No. Should it be? No. But should it still be a place to immerse yourself in innovation, wonder, discovery, and imagination? Absolutely.
And, while the internet and cell phones have brought many things to us, they do not have to have made such a place as Epcot irrelevant, any more so than video games would have made amusement parks irrelevant. (They're all just game spaces, right?)
The point is that Epcot can be innovative and even more adult in its approach, and can and should involve fully immersive experiences, not the least of which involves the cast members from foreign countries. It is wonderful to talk to them and meet them in person, even if for a very short time. Yes, I can probably see Norway on the internet, and maybe even "talk" to a Norwegian playing a game online, but it is still cool to meet and speak with a Norwegian in a setting about his country. And yes, I could possibly visit Norway; but most people will not have the opportunity to travel all of the areas represented in World Showcase.
Was EPCOT perfect? No. Could we ever do it again and see it through those very eyes? No. But can we have innovation and sense of wonder built in today? Yes. And probably by becoming a partner with those companies is at least one way to do it. Not the only way, but one way. And Walt understood that.
Cesar R M
Well-Known Member
It still has to do with the insane overpricing of Disney projects vs what we get. So I agree with you.
I mean, how much was the supposed costs of the mine train?
Whats more annoying is that despite Disney being a huge "service" and "hospitality" type industry. The most brunt cost cuts always seem to be in the front end workforce. Making them work harder, for less and cut down more and more staff on this front.
Umm... I said just as much when in the post you quoted I said:
However, there may be some valid criticism that they're wasting too much and not getting their money's worth with all that billions. Although, that's hard for me to judge without looking at an expenditure list.
So... what were you arguing about?
winstongator
Well-Known Member
Look at some of the original/current sponsors of Epcot relative to Disney, then and now. GE, Exxon, Chevy, Kraft, Kodak. They aren't the tech leaders they once were. They aren't much bigger than Disney. They don't have more money to spend on these things than Disney does.
I don't think they need corporate partners. Well designed attractions based on current technology would be fantastic. How do we fit millions of switches on a single human hair? How does your cell phone get information from the internet? How do doctors use magnets to see what parts of your brain are active when they show you certain pictures/video (fMRI). Those are ideas off the top of my head where I have some working knowledge of the tech. Show people the scale of the universe. Other ideas I have less info on: How long would it take to get to Mars (could be pre/post-show at Mission Space), AI, batteries, genetics & evolution.
Maybe one closer to WDW: how MagicBands work!
prberk
Well-Known Member
You had me until that last one. LOL.
Anyway, yes, it would still work to show broad generalities of how things work and inspire innovation with showmanship and fun. But I do think there are still good, new corporate partners to explore as well. Let them show off their innovation.