Bob Chapek Confirms Disney Will Overhaul Epcot

[Kman101]

Not really.

Can't say I blame you.

That poster tells me all I need to, confirming how many view Epcot. It doesn't matter about a deeper meaning. What matters is my kids seeing Mickey and having a few thrills. I also blame Disney for not doing a better job, but they would have to care about them being unique ...

I mean, to each their own and everything, we all view the parks in a different way. I don't like begrudging anyone for their own personal tastes and thoughts but it's just sad many don't care about what the parks should be. It's about what their 5 year old wants to do.

And FYI to parents who think kids don't want to learn: you'd be surprised. You can learn a lot without it feeling like you're being taught, if that makes sense. Often it seems like the parents projecting this onto their kids: "ewww learning".

Sigh.

 

[wdisney9000]

Could care less if you take me seriously or not.

Then why respond to me? Are you trying to convince me? Or yourself?

kids spent their summers in Europe so they have been to the real live versions of most of those worlds. they haven't been to the middle east. my oldest is actually going to Egypt in August so that will take care of Africa.

What does that have to do with anything? Nobody (myself included) ever said that WS was or should be a replacement for visiting actual countries throughout the world. If you are trying to dismiss WS as an entertaining venue simply because you or your children have visited other countries, then that is just asinine.

You can deflect all you want by bringing up how well traveled your family is, or dropping hints of your son going to med school which I suppose are efforts to prove some level of sophistication. You are using real life as a comparison to a theme park to prove your point. Again, asinine.

 

[twebber55]

curious how people view this hotel from the Star wars hotel because that one seems to be universally praised and this one not so much....is it location? already know the theme?

 

[eliza61nyc]

Then why respond to me? Are you trying to convince me? Or yourself?

What does that have to do with anything? Nobody (myself included) ever said that WS was or should be a replacement for visiting actual countries throughout the world. If you are trying to dismiss WS as an entertaining venue simply because you or your children have visited other countries, then that is just asinine.

You can deflect all you want by bringing up how well traveled your family is, or dropping hints of your son going to med school which I suppose are efforts to prove some level of sophistication. You are using real life as a comparison to a theme park to prove your point. Again, asinine.

What can I say "you're welcome". us demigods have a hard job to do

 

[wdisney9000]

You whine about how bad it is and yet still go.

Please show me a post of mine where I have whined about bad WDW is? You cant, because I havent. You have used this "you hate it but still go" as the basis of your argument on many posts but have absolutely no evidence to back it up. Its usually accompanied by some form of harping about "Epcots glory days" or "the world is changing". Using an axiom as rebuttal does not contribute to the conversation. Look, i can do it too... Disneys greatest strengths are also their biggest weaknesses!

 

[disneyflush]

I actually agree with your general premise if its “the world has changed”...the internet essentially killed Epcot 1.0...

But I have to ask: when was the first time you went to Epcot?

Jumping in briefly. First trip was in 1983 as a young lad then went each summer of 1984, 1985, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990. Didn't go at all between 1990 and 2006. Then yearly until 2012 when prices and the size of my family outpaced my desire to go annually.

Epcot was a fantasy world in the 1980s. There were things in those buildings that were mind-blowing to me as a child. Things like hydroponics on Living with the Land, robots, computers, 3D, telephones with picture screens so you could see someone when you talked to them. I wish I was a strong enough writer to convey the absolute wonder of seeing Horizons before personal computers were a thing, before the Internet was built into life, and before cell phones became what they are now. Seabase Alpha was incredible. Technology was just this endless possibility to a 9 year old in the mid-80s. It was like an unwritten agreement between a kid and Walt that we'd let the Magic Kingdom take care of the silly rides and games and we'd just be over here in EPCOT learning about the important stuff.

I think most of the people that remember this time so fondly are those of us over age (roughly) 35ish. Both for the fact that we were physically there and able to remember it (obviously) but more for the fact that the lens we saw it through was so drastically different than the look back on it now. The world's biggest Disney fan might be 22 years old and able to see the pictures of the original rides, watch video of the ride-throughs, see those animatronics, understand the park layout in those years down to tiniest detail, all of these things are possible. But you can never see them without knowing what a cell phone is, or having physical encyclopedias being your primary way to search a subject you want to know more about, or visiting this place in a world barely 10 years away from man first stepping on the moon, when cable TV had only been around in the mainstream for a couple of years (CNN, MTV, USA were all created in 1980).

The EPCOT of those years is definitely gone. But I think it definitely helped to shape quite a few brains that went on to grow up and create the products and technology that it helped them dream up. Disney doesn't have the limitless imagination it once did. It has been shaped by financial limitations imposed by whoever makes those decisions. But if Google could take over one of the buildings. And Apple could take another. And Elon Musk another. Turn those buildings back into imagination labs. It could be glorious again in that same vein as the 80s.

 

[Kman101]

curious how people view this hotel from the Star wars hotel because that one seems to be universally praised and this one not so much....is it location? already know the theme?

Maybe if there were actual details to either love or hate. We have a lot more to go on with the SW hotel. And it's not going in front of the entrance to DHS.

I think for many it's just fear of the unknown.

Can I ask why you think a hotel at the entrace of Epcot SHOULD be loved? Not being snarky. Why do you think it's a good idea? Just wondering because you're kind of fixated on some of us being wary. I get we have nothing to go on but their history speaks for itself to some and I am wary in this case.

 

[wdisney9000]

I think the people nostalgic for the "old Epcot" often fail to realize that we (collectively) have changed in the last 30 year, not just Epcot. We're a lot more cynical than we used to be. Information is available to us instantly and infinitely. Attention spans are shorter. Parents and children are less patient. Etc. I don't think 1982 Epcot works any time other than 1982 Earth.

"Ever on another thousand circles 'round the sun" and all that.

I believe this is where the disconnect comes into the conversation. I am referring to the idea that people who visited EPCOT are simply nostalgic and want it to return. I am one of the people who visited a lot during EPCOTS "glory days". I loved it. I rode Horizons and WoM a bazillion times. I remember the tall foam head characters that would roam around WS and the double decker buses. Body Wars, Sea Base Alpha and Cranium Command were always fun and had a touch of edutainment. The park was amazing, but I am not longing for all that to return.

The park absolutely should be updated and keep up with the world. I just do not understand how turning it into another Magic Kingdom makes it a unique experience. EPCOT was unique. Epcot is still somewhat unique, but that is all changing. Now we have Nemo, Frozen and coming soon will be GoTG and Ratatouille and then Mary Poppins. I have no doubt the attractions will be enjoyable. But the park itself will no longer be unique. It will be another MK but with the exception of Spaceship Earth as the "weenie" instead of a castle. They were on a better path when they added attractions like Soarin, Mission Space and Test Track. Entertaining and crowd pleasing attractions that were based much more in reality, not fantasy. It just feel like they are taking the easy way out and tossing fantasy attractions in because its easier and most likely cheaper.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Jumping in briefly. First trip was in 1983 as a young lad then went each summer of 1984, 1985, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990. Didn't go at all between 1990 and 2006. Then yearly until 2012 when prices and the size of my family outpaced my desire to go annually.

Epcot was a fantasy world in the 1980s. There were things in those buildings that were mind-blowing to me as a child. Things like hydroponics on Living with the Land, robots, computers, 3D, telephones with picture screens so you could see someone when you talked to them. I wish I was a strong enough writer to convey the absolute wonder of seeing Horizons before personal computers were a thing, before the Internet was built into life, and before cell phones became what they are now. Seabase Alpha was incredible. Technology was just this endless possibility to a 9 year old in the mid-80s. It was like an unwritten agreement between a kid and Walt that we'd let the Magic Kingdom take care of the silly rides and games and we'd just be over here in EPCOT learning about the important stuff.

I think most of the people that remember this time so fondly are those of us over age (roughly) 35ish. Both for the fact that we were physically there and able to remember it (obviously) but more for the fact that the lens we saw it through was so drastically different than the look back on it now. The world's biggest Disney fan might be 22 years old and able to see the pictures of the original rides, watch video of the ride-throughs, see those animatronics, understand the park layout in those years down to tiniest detail, all of these things are possible. But you can never see them without knowing what a cell phone is, or having physical encyclopedias being your primary way to search a subject you want to know more about, or visiting this place in a world barely 10 years away from man first stepping on the moon, when cable TV had only been around in the mainstream for a couple of years (CNN, MTV, USA were all created in 1980).

The EPCOT of those years is definitely gone. But I think it definitely helped to shape quite a few brains that went on to grow up and create the products and technology that it helped them dream up. Disney doesn't have the limitless imagination it once did. It has been shaped by financial limitations imposed by whoever makes those decisions. But if Google could take over one of the buildings. And Apple could take another. And Elon Musk another. Turn those buildings back into imagination labs. It could be glorious again in that same vein as the 80s.

Yep...after that, nothing really needs to be said.

Sticky this.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

curious how people view this hotel from the Star wars hotel because that one seems to be universally praised and this one not so much....is it location? already know the theme?

Woah there, Newt?

“Universally praised” is going to go south sooner than later. Star Wars honeymoon May be ending...just a thought.

 

[Kman101]

I believe this is where the disconnect comes into the conversation. I am referring to the idea that people who visited EPCOT are simply nostalgic and want it to return. I am one of the people who visited a lot during EPCOTS "glory days". I loved it. I rode Horizons and WoM a bazillion times. I remember the tall foam head characters that would roam around WS and the double decker buses. Body Wars, Sea Base Alpha and Cranium Command were always fun and had a touch of edutainment. The park was amazing, but I am not longing for all that to return.

The park absolutely should be updated and keep up with the world. I just do not understand how turning it into another Magic Kingdom makes it a unique experience. EPCOT was unique. Epcot is still somewhat unique, but that is all changing. Now we have Nemo, Frozen and coming soon will be GoTG and Ratatouille and then Mary Poppins. I have no doubt the attractions will be enjoyable. But the park itself will no longer be unique. It will be another MK but with the exception of Spaceship Earth as the "weenie" instead of a castle. They were on a better path when they added attractions like Soarin, Mission Space and Test Track. Entertaining and crowd pleasing attractions that were based much more in reality, not fantasy. It just feel like they are taking the easy way out and tossing fantasy attractions in because its easier and most likely cheaper.

I can understand that.

Personally I don't mind WS having some 'fantasy' attractions, you visit 'the real' location but can step into the fictional world of Rat and Mary (would we be "against them" though if they were new creations just for WS and not tied to movies?), I don't really hate it, but I know why it's not appealing to some. And it's a symptom of a larger problem they have with "IP MUST GO EVERYWHERE" which gets annoying.

I'd love Horizons and World of Motion to still be standing and I think they should be (along with original Imagination). But there's no reason they can't keep the spirit of the original Epcot alive in new attractions.

I mean in the world of "IP EVERYWHERE" they have several IPs that have literally handed them easy IP replacements and they don't do anything with them. I'd prefer non-IP in at least Future World.

GOTG is a bigger problem to me than Rat and Mary but, again, I get it's part of an overall bigger problem. (FROZEN is also a problem)

 

[Rodan75]

1996, so I know I'm too young. I'm not saying anyone is wrong for missing it, I think they're wrong for thinking it would or could work again.

I think this is a great sentiment and I know folks want a 2018 version of the 1982 park, but to your previous posts, I just don't think there is a 2018 version of a 1982 park.

 

[twebber55]

Maybe if there were actual details to either love or hate. We have a lot more to go on with the SW hotel. And it's not going in front of the entrance to DHS.

I think for many it's just fear of the unknown.

Can I ask why you think a hotel at the entrace of Epcot SHOULD be loved? Not being snarky. Why do you think it's a good idea? Just wondering because you're kind of fixated on some of us being wary. I get we have nothing to go on but their history speaks for itself to some and I am wary in this case.

Oh I don't have an opinion why it should be loved. Im sure convenience to Epcot is pretty desirable
And I would nt say I'm fixated as the folks who dislike this dislike a lot of what's coming to Epcot. Again my Epcot purists comment. That crowd is quite interesting like the baseball purist analogy I used earlier.
I mean MK already has resorts at the front and I don't think for one second that 99% of the people going there could care less about where resorts are in fact most people wish they could stay there
And I don't take your comments as snarky at all enjoy discussing this with you actually

 

[Kman101]

Oh I don't have an opinion why it should be loved. Im sure convenience to Epcot is pretty desirable
And I would nt say I'm fixated as the folks who dislike this dislike a lot of what's coming to Epcot. Again my Epcot purists comment. That crowd is quite interesting like the baseball purist analogy I used earlier.
I mean MK already has resorts at the front and I don't think for one second that 99% of the people going there could care less about where resorts are in fact most people wish they could stay there
And I don't take your comments as snarky at all enjoy discussing this with you actually

I enjoy the discussion as well. (we often seem to agree on most things lol)

I don't mind a hotel going near Epcot, in the parking lots I guess. A resort with very close access to Epcot isn't the worst idea in the world. I think many just cringe and worry at the thought of it being right at the entrance and I can understand and agree with the reservations. But a resort on Epcot property? I can get behind it but I need a little more to go on.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I think this is a great sentiment and I know folks want a 2018 version of the 1982 park, but to your previous posts, I just don't think there is a 2018 version of a 1982 park.

Well...a lot of the Epcot discussion on Disney sites has always fallen along the millennial line. Actually ALOT of arguments are...for societal reasons...

But I think most “Epcot purists” (I have a dossier that’s under lock and key with @Rteetz as a trustee...sealed by Disney court order...long story) aren’t really under any illusion that the old Reagan era Epcot is coming back.

It’s not for a lot of reasons. But my take - and it’s directed from HQ on Wall Street (and puppet hq in Burbank) - is that the IP clones are “lazy imagineering”. They ultimately just retell old stories with known characters.

And the original Epcot was disney...the “rides” had to be built with a character (no pun intended) and an identity. That is lost now.

I’m sure there’ll be a three hour wait and smiles with guardians of the galaxy.

But it’s jsut gonna be a rollercoaster with a chris Pratt preshow.

I like that...but it wouldn’t hook me as a kid like imagination or world of motion did.

So we have devolved as we evolved.

Ok...that’s that.

 

[SpaceMountain77]

@marni1971 , in the past, when asked about the new thematic direction of Epcot, you have responded with "different." Are there any other words that you can use at this time to describe the new thematic direction?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Oh I don't have an opinion why it should be loved. Im sure convenience to Epcot is pretty desirable
And I would nt say I'm fixated as the folks who dislike this dislike a lot of what's coming to Epcot. Again my Epcot purists comment. That crowd is quite interesting like the baseball purist analogy I used earlier.
I mean MK already has resorts at the front and I don't think for one second that 99% of the people going there could care less about where resorts are in fact most people wish they could stay there
And I don't take your comments as snarky at all enjoy discussing this with you actually

Magic kingdom resorts are a tad more organic due to the lakes and the planning...

...and Epcot already has its hotels...they just happen to be in a better spot out back.

 

[Stripes]

The EPCOT of those years is definitely gone. But I think it definitely helped to shape quite a few brains that went on to grow up and create the products and technology that it helped them dream up. Disney doesn't have the limitless imagination it once did. It has been shaped by financial limitations imposed by whoever makes those decisions. But if Google could take over one of the buildings. And Apple could take another. And Elon Musk another. Turn those buildings back into imagination labs. It could be glorious again in that same vein as the 80s.

I would argue that the world doesn't have the imagination it once did. In the eighties, all of us could only imagine what the future could be like. If you really think about the future of technology and health innovation, many are either being applied today and readily available to consumers, or they're impractical to be applied to an Epcot-like experience. For example: self-driving cars, artificial intelligence, virtual reality, etc. One possible application would be the robots from Boston Dynamics. Then again, how interested will people be when they have all the world's information at their fingertips. I'm of the view that world has changed too much for simply an updated Epcot showcasing the latest technology. That vision would never replicate the level of inspiration that visitors to EPCOT in the eighties experienced.

Besides people these days are far more wary of the future than back then. Look at Shanghai's Tomorrowland, it absolutely looks futuristic, but not everyone thinks that's the ideal vision, and argue that the aesthetic is too cold and unwelcoming.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Well...a lot of the Epcot discussion on Disney sites has always fallen along the millennial line. Actually ALOT of arguments are...for societal reasons...

But I think most “Epcot purists” (I have a dossier that’s under lock and key with @Rteetz as a trustee...sealed by Disney court order...long story) aren’t really under any illusion that the old Reagan era Epcot is coming back.

It’s not for a lot of reasons. But my take - and it’s directed from HQ on Wall Street (and puppet hq in Burbank) - is that the IP clones are “lazy imagineering”. They ultimately just retell old stories with known characters.

And the original Epcot was disney...the “rides” had to be built with a character (no pun intended) and an identity. That is lost now.

I’m sure there’ll be a three hour wait and smiles with guardians of the galaxy.

But it’s jsut gonna be a rollercoaster with a chris Pratt preshow.

I like that...but it wouldn’t hook me as a kid like imagination or world of motion did.

So we have devolved as we evolved.

Ok...that’s that.

I agree with all of this except for the implication that this is Disney's fault. I think Disney is responding to cultural shifts, not driving them. I'm 28 and I've been known to shed a tear during "Promise" or "Golden Dream," so I'm on your side in terms of what I would PERSONALLY like to see. But I'm in a very slim minority among my peers on that. Most people my age would roll their eyes at the types of attractions you're alluding to. They'd rather be on Instagram.

 

[SpaceMountain77]

In 2003, I was enrolled in an Anthropology class at the University of Chicago, which was entitled Utopia. The course focused on utopian thought and one week was dedicated to Walt Disney, his vision for the Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow, and the original EPCOT Center.

Much of the discussion in the course centered on the death of utopian thought. In prior decades, Americans shared a love affair with futuristic thought and, specifically, lived experiences reminiscent of the Jetsons. The space race passed, in-home robots and flying cars did not become a reality, so utopian thought waned.

From an academic standpoint, the Walt Disney Company built EPCOT Center, its most ambitions, imaginative, and innovative park to date, by capturing a moment in American history and time. Regarding World Showcase, it embodied Americans love affair with travel to countries that most only dreamed about.

I am an EPCOT purist. Every visit to Epcot includes a trip to Impressios de France, so that I can feel connected to an earlier time in the park. No CEO or executive is to blame for the betrayal of EPCOT Center's vision. Time passed, technology continues to evolve at a faster rate, and anyone with a deep desire to visit Munich for Oktoberfest can easily plan a trip with a simple web search.

Why does the loss of EPCOT Center sting more than the dramatic transformation of Disney-MGM Studios? The construction of EPCOT Center was guided by a philosophy, grounded in academic disciplines, and systems of thought never die. Disney-MGM Studios is a theme park whose theme has evolved with time.