Bob Chapek Confirms Disney Will Overhaul Epcot

James Norrie

Well-Known Member
The argument is not appropriate as it falsely assumes a single universal truth.
The single universal truth is that Disney is a business, registered as a corporation, not a 501(c)3. You are mistaking your wealth of knowledge and enthusiasm for Disney history for something that makes a difference in Corporate operations. TDO does sometimes listen to guest feedback, but in general make their own decisions based off of years of experience doing amazing work (Splash, BTMRR, AK, GMR) and some not so amazing work (SGE) creating and managing theme parks. They owe you what you pay for, nothing more...
 

Kman101

Well-Known Member
We all are aware that Disney is a business. The problem is that it shouldn't be used as an excuse for poor decisions. That's why you see the pushback when someone proclaims Disney is a business. That's no excuse for how much they overcharge us for what they do. That's all.
 

RobidaFlats

Well-Known Member
Two Points:

1. I always find this interesting because there seems to be a feeling that people can't be emotionally invested in a business. Or that they can't armchair quarterback business decisions.

Oddly, when my favorite sports team drafts a dud or makes a poor trade, there is a lot of discussion and argument, but never "the team is a business" as a defense of the moves.

2. The thing to remember with businesses is that when enough people don't like the business decisions that are being made, the business suffers. If the business suffers enough, it fails. I would submit that most of the people taking exception with WDW management are doing so because they want the business to succeed. Obviously they may or may not be correct in their assumption of what leads to success. I doubt anyone is arguing that WDW should be operated as a charity, despite the insinuations of their detractors.

In Summation:
Disney is a business. So was Eastern Airlines. Being a business does not mean that all decisions made for budgetary reasons are good for the business.
 

Kman101

Well-Known Member
Two Points:

1. I always find this interesting because there seems to be a feeling that people can't be emotionally invested in a business. Or that they can't armchair quarterback business decisions.

Oddly, when my favorite sports team drafts a dud or makes a poor trade, there is a lot of discussion and argument, but never "the team is a business" as a defense of the moves.

2. The thing to remember with businesses is that when enough people don't like the business decisions that are being made, the business suffers. If the business suffers enough, it fails. I would submit that most of the people taking exception with WDW management are doing so because they want the business to succeed. Obviously they may or may not be correct in their assumption of what leads to success. I doubt anyone is arguing that WDW should be operated as a charity, despite the insinuations of their detractors.

In Summation:
Disney is a business. So was Eastern Airlines. Being a business does not mean that all decisions made for budgetary reasons are good for the business.

Bravo!

But keep your common sense and logic out of this ;)
 

Kman101

Well-Known Member
Oh they are, and I take much more issues with Roger Goodell's salary than I do with anything TDO Does, what with the NFL supposedly being a charity. The teams themselves are corporations... But that's not for this thread

I take issue with a lot of people's salaries ... LOL. Obscene. But yeah, not the thread for that.
 

RobidaFlats

Well-Known Member
Oh they are, and I take much more issues with Roger Goodell's salary than I do with anything TDO Does, what with the NFL supposedly being a charity. The teams themselves are corporations... But that's not for this thread

You're right, it's not for this thread, and so I apologize for veering a moment longer, but the NFL is not a charity. It is a 501(c)6. It's a completely bogus exemption that I don't agree with, but they do not claim to be a charity.

Edit: It was pointed out that the NFL dropped 501(c)6 status in 2015.
 
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Tony the Tigger

Well-Known Member
We all are aware that Disney is a business. The problem is that it shouldn't be used as an excuse for poor decisions. That's why you see the pushback when someone proclaims Disney is a business. That's no excuse for how much they overcharge us for what they do. That's all.

Rarely is "overcharging" the complaint, especially on this thread. In fact, that's the one thing I tend to agree with is they are overcharging during construction.

But that's just my personal feeling for obvious reasons, and the bottom line is each individual makes a value judgment when deciding whether or not to purchase tickets. The fact that they are still selling tickets at the higher pricing during this time suggests, in fact, they are not overcharging. The market will bear what the market will bear. Once they go too high – really too high – they will know it because people will vote with their wallets and pocketbooks, which is much more effective than complaints on message boards.

Again, none of this is unique to Disney. It's today's American corporate culture. And after the last election…

Money is not an excuse for poor decisions. However it is absolutely an excuse for limitations. Mommy only has enough money for an ice cream cone or a piece of cake, so you can't get both now. You can have one now and one the next time.

The breakdown seems to come in management of execution. That includes underestimating costs, time, surprises during construction. That includes setting realistic expectations for shareholders and consumers.

In my opinion it would also include a little humility – whoever lost Harry Potter to Universal did a horrible disservice to Walt Disney World, which then floundered and bought the first other big IP they could find rolling around – Pandora. While I have every confidence that will turn out well, the purchase itself hardly appears motivated by sound and careful planning. Rather, it seems like keeping up with the Joneses. Except the Joneses just came home with a new Porsche and your answer was to come home with a new Hyundai.

In hindsight, it would've been better to bide their time, investing in their refurbishments of core areas and attractions until they could secure the Star Wars deal. But in fairness, who knew that then?

You do not have the original crew running the show. And people, unfortunately, typically don't learn lessons until they experience them first hand.

I can tell my employees until I am blue in the face "this is how to avoid pitfalls when doing XYZ." I know this because I made these mistakes very very early in my career, and I want to prevent them from happening again. But somebody always thinks they know better because they're 22, and does something differently without my permission, and messes it up.

That scenario might cost me a few bucks. It might cost Disney a few million.

They're a company made of people and people mess up.

But the fact that they are a business is basic and just reminds you of their structural limitations. That will never change.
 

Kman101

Well-Known Member
It doesn't make what they do "right" though. They've always been a business. I get what you're trying to argue. I guess I was just using my stance, I argue back on the overcharging, the upcharges, etc. I've personally never said I know how to run a business or that I'd do better at it. But to argue about people voicing their opinions? I don't get that. Why get upset at them?
 

Tony the Tigger

Well-Known Member
It doesn't make what they do "right" though. They've always been a business. I get what you're trying to argue. I guess I was just using my stance, I argue back on the overcharging, the upcharges, etc. I've personally never said I know how to run a business or that I'd do better at it. But to argue about people voicing their opinions? I don't get that. Why get upset at them?

Doesn't make a lot of what they do "wrong," either, as some seem to insinuate. And that's when I tend to jump in with the business defense. The goals of the company and the goals of the guests are not necessarily the same. In some cases, they align. In others, they are at direct odds (ticket pricing.)

Voicing opinions is fine, I do it a lot LOL.

It seems to cross over sometimes into obnoxious entitlement syndrome - as if some poster on a message board is here to protect the soul of Disney from the moneygrubbing idiots running the company now, because they know better because they read a book about Walt. And they spout off with all this idealism but it's unfortunately not tempered with reality. We live in reality. The bratty kid who can't get both the ice cream and the cake at the same time can't be satisfied with just one and has to throw a tantrum in the store.

And it annoys me when people dismiss the business argument out of hand. Maybe some misuse it, but I use it when the conversation calls for it, to bring things back to reality a little bit.

I've been in retail management, for big companies and for myself for just about 30 years. Behind the scenes, there are times when it's OK to upset or even lose some customers for certain reasons.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
The single universal truth is that Disney is a business, registered as a corporation, not a 501(c)3. You are mistaking your wealth of knowledge and enthusiasm for Disney history for something that makes a difference in Corporate operations. TDO does sometimes listen to guest feedback, but in general make their own decisions based off of years of experience doing amazing work (Splash, BTMRR, AK, GMR) and some not so amazing work (SGE) creating and managing theme parks. They owe you what you pay for, nothing more...
Years of experience? Bob Chapek had no business attending IAPPA before his current job. Tom Staggs had no business attending IAPPA before getting that same job. Jay Rasulo had a few years and hated every one of them and the stupid product. Paul Pressler also had a couple years that are remembered "fondly."
 

Kman

Well-Known Member
Disney always has been a business.... the difference is they didn't act like every other business.

That is why Disney became great! And what is missed every time by the blanket claims

I am in the business world (albeit a small/medium sized version) and I tend to agree with this. While I still love Disney and look forward to every trip I do tend to see them as not much different than any other publicly traded company. I strongly believe that Wall Street (or Bay Street here in Canada) have done amazing things for businesses and individuals alike, it is a two edged sword. It seems to me that these "streets" and others like them have cultivated a culture whereby EVERYTHING is done for the bottom line with nearly no consideration given to the consumer. I am not saying Disney has to be exactly the same as it was in 1971 but they do seem to make many decisions to boost the bottom line rather than making bold, unique decision that make them an inventive company that rises above the rest. I try not to worry or concern myself too much about the impact of IP based entertainment...frankly these boards get me down sometimes and I think run the risk of "ruining" Disney for me...but I think much of this is the easy way to make money.

Disney is not alone. I wish many publicly traded companies would make some of their decisions because it is the "right" thing for the consumers keeping in mind that a healthy bottom line is incredibly important. Without that you have nothing. In Disney's case- really being creative and pushing the boundaries of what is amazing would be fantastic. To be fair they still do this with certain things but I don't believe at the same level as they once did. The mentality seems to have changed significantly. I often wonder when "enough is enough" as it pertains to the bottom line. I guess for investors and beancounters that equals "never". For the consumers it would be cool to see Disney really put on a display of what they are truly capable of.

Not sure if that makes any sense.
 

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