Bob Chapek Confirms Disney Will Overhaul Epcot

the_rich

Well-Known Member
I also don't concede it's correct. Every generation says this - "young people these days!" It's also easy to blame technology.. Truth is, there have always been people with good and bad attention spans... I don't think any generation is worse than another in that regard.
I'll agree with this. The one thing I will say is that there has never been more fragmentation than now. There are so many things vying for people's attention today. Even 10 years ago people going to wdw were more of a captive audience. Today you have to compete with every person having a computer in their pocket. It's like Gone with the Wind. There is no way it is the success today that it was when released. People had no choice but to see it dozens of times because there wasn't anything else fighting for their attention. So right or wrong Disney has to move away from what worked in the past because the vast majority of their customers have.
 

montyz81

Well-Known Member
I'll agree with this. The one thing I will say is that there has never been more fragmentation than now. There are so many things vying for people's attention today. Even 10 years ago people going to wdw were more of a captive audience. Today you have to compete with every person having a computer in their pocket. It's like Gone with the Wind. There is no way it is the success today that it was when released. People had no choice but to see it dozens of times because there wasn't anything else fighting for their attention. So right or wrong Disney has to move away from what worked in the past because the vast majority of their customers have.
Two examples of this are 1: Interactive queues 2: Additional entertainment via cellphones while in a park dedicated to entertaining you.
 

Rich Brownn

Well-Known Member
Truly believe they are among the worst things to ever befall humanity, but good luck convincing the people who can't stop staring at them for more than 5 seconds.



Totally different and far more insidious in my opinion, but that's all it is, an opinion.

Soccer moms didn't hurtle down the road in SUV's at 50 miles an hour with a TV in front of their faces in the 50's, for one.
Nope, they hurtled down the road in station wagons full of kids while doing their makeup and hair in the mirror.
 

Sonconato

Well-Known Member
Truly believe they are among the worst things to ever befall humanity, but good luck convincing the people who can't stop staring at them for more than 5 seconds.



Totally different and far more insidious in my opinion, but that's all it is, an opinion.

Soccer moms didn't hurtle down the road in SUV's at 50 miles an hour with a TV in front of their faces in the 50's, for one.
I fully agree. There's at least two crashes on the news a day. When I here "distracted driver," it's another way of saying the driver was either looking at their phone or calling on their phone. In my opinion, of course.
 

Demarke

Have I told you lately that I 👍 you?
I'll agree with this. The one thing I will say is that there has never been more fragmentation than now. There are so many things vying for people's attention today. Even 10 years ago people going to wdw were more of a captive audience. Today you have to compete with every person having a computer in their pocket. It's like Gone with the Wind. There is no way it is the success today that it was when released. People had no choice but to see it dozens of times because there wasn't anything else fighting for their attention. So right or wrong Disney has to move away from what worked in the past because the vast majority of their customers have.

While there were less options to go to in Orlando in the 1980's, there were also vastly fewer people making the trip. From the best attendance stats I can drum up through Google, it appears that Epcot maintained an attendance within 1.5-2 million of the yearly Magic Kingdom numbers through about 1996 (even with the new Disney-MGM Studios opening in 1989). Then as growth of the market and growth of park tourists has come through with the Universal parks, etc, Magic Kingdom has grown to exceed 20 million in yearly attendance while Epcot has more or less stagnated with the same 10-12 million range since the 1980's (with some dips below, particularly post-9/11).

I think Gone with the Wind worked in its day because it was a grand spectacle compared to most other options of the time and people could see effects and imagery that they could not get anywhere else (the Avatar of its day). Magic Kingdom has that grand immersion that captures people on a scale they cannot get elsewhere. Animal Kingdom has done a good job of creating a grand experience with their vast and open animal exhibits, to their well themed lands, that also manages to pack a good bit of educational info into the park (even the Dinosaur queue has some educational elements). Animal Kingdom has recently overtaken Epcot in attendance as a result. When Hollywood Studios opens the Star Wars land, it will have a big spectacle (that also helps it tighten up the park's overall movie and tv theme a little, even if not really a studio anymore) and will more than likely pass Epcot in attendance too, relegating it to the fourth gate status.

Epcot had this until sometime not long after the original sponsorship agreements ran out and the pavilions were left without attention or were cheapened (looking at you Imagination pavilion). Epcot has big, impressive buildings and spaces where impressive attractions could be, but overall they didn't update or expand, they regressed over time and stagnated (they did add Soarin, Test Track, Mission:Space, and now GotG, but those replaced rather than added and each followed a period where the park took extended time essentially ignoring the space before anything happened to it). Guests notice "empty" and it can shape the overall image of the park even if there are still some compelling elements nearby (think about how MK would look if in the late-1990's they just shut down Thunder Mountain, Crystal Palace, Haunted Mansion, and Hall of Presidents and didn't replace the space with anything for a decade). Guests want something to capture their attention, it doesn't have to be IP, it just has to be something they couldn't otherwise find in their local shopping center. When they walk in to Epcot now, you do see the impressive Spaceship Earth, but beyond that, the early impression of the main avenue of the park is encountering the shell of Communicore/Innoventions with basically just shopping, character meet and greets, and empty space where something cool used to be. If they turn left, they see the shell of UofE then the empty WoL building before getting to something they can actually experience. When you walk around, you go by the empty Odyssey building, the weakened Imagination pavilion (with its closed upstairs attraction space, cheapened ride, and activities that never work right in the post-show Imageworks), The Land has a big empty space where Circle of Life was, The Seas has stripped much of the theming and show that it formerly had as well (taking out the hydolators, scientific queue displays, pre-show).

My guess is that if, instead of replacing many of the above areas with meet and greets or nothing, they had either freshened the old rides or put in real attractions, Epcot would have had a better chance at maintaining its own identity and would not have lagged behind Magic Kingdom's attendance growth nearly as much as it has.
 
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Corylancaster

Active Member
Internet and smartphones have totally warped people's attention spans though.

I know you didn't specify Millennials or another generation, but your comment made me think of this...

this-generation-andtheir-mobile-phones-6101068.png
 

montyz81

Well-Known Member
I think that has more to do with Disney trying to get people less angry about long lines than it does about the distractibility of modern audiences.
The need to keep people entertained with every step they take or don't take feels like a modern age thing. I remember as a kid waiting in lines at Space Mountain for well over an hour and a half and having nothing but my brothers to talk to. I was 12 at the time. I know technology didn't exist then, but I still feel like your point speaks more to the fact that people need to be continuously entertained rather than just filling space with conversation. I am pretty sure queue entertainment (The likes of HM, BTMRR, SDMT) could have been created back in the day if need be, but it didn't need to be. It is more that we live in the "Insta-moment" rather than the wait and see mentality. For 40 years queue entertainment didn't exist and people still went. In the last 10, many lines have some form of entertainment. And now we have continuous park entertainment on our phones while we go from ride to ride, store to ride, ride to store, and while we sit and eat. 30 years ago it was enough to just wonder at the park while we ate.
 

mikejs78

Premium Member
The need to keep people entertained with every step they take or don't take feels like a modern age thing. I remember as a kid waiting in lines at Space Mountain for well over an hour and a half and having nothing but my brothers to talk to. I was 12 at the time. I know technology didn't exist then, but I still feel like your point speaks more to the fact that people need to be continuously entertained rather than just filling space with conversation. I am pretty sure queue entertainment (The likes of HM, BTMRR, SDMT) could have been created back in the day if need be, but it didn't need to be. It is more that we live in the "Insta-moment" rather than the wait and see mentality. For 40 years queue entertainment didn't exist and people still went. In the last 10, many lines have some form of entertainment. And now we have continuous park entertainment on our phones while we go from ride to ride, store to ride, ride to store, and while we sit and eat. 30 years ago it was enough to just wonder at the park while we ate.
Yeah, but Space Mountain was the outlier. Back then there was a lot you could do with little wait. Now nearly everything is 40m+ on a regular basis.
 

Demarke

Have I told you lately that I 👍 you?
Yeah, but Space Mountain was the outlier. Back then there was a lot you could do with little wait. Now nearly everything is 40m+ on a regular basis.

That's a good point, I don't remember waiting any significant length of time at anything other than Space Mountain when I went as a kid (89, 94, 96), but there was also only something in the neighborhood of 11-14 million guests at MK a year back then compared to cracking over the 20 million that it is now. The other thing is FastPass has created a higher standby time because the regular line has to wait on FastPass lines as they filter in now. All things equal, I like FastPass for its ability to spread some the masses around and guarantee at least three stress free experiences, but I think people weren't prone to get as bored or restless in old queues simply because they kept moving so you felt like you were making progress. I can't remember ever just standing in one place in line for 10+ minutes without moving in the old days, but that seems to be a reality in most lines these days in the new system.
 

mikejs78

Premium Member
That's a good point, I don't remember waiting any significant length of time at anything other than Space Mountain when I went as a kid (89, 94, 96), but there was also only something in the neighborhood of 11-14 million guests at MK a year back then compared to cracking over the 20 million that it is now. The other thing is FastPass has created a higher standby time because the regular line has to wait on FastPass lines as they filter in now. All things equal, I like FastPass for its ability to spread some the masses around and guarantee at least three stress free experiences, but I think people weren't prone to get as bored or restless in old queues simply because they kept moving so you felt like you were making progress. I can't remember ever just standing in one place in line for 10+ minutes without moving in the old days, but that seems to be a reality in most lines these days in the new system.
Not to get into this again and hijack another thread but FP hasn't significantly increased standby line time, only the perception. PM me if you want the details. It's the increase in crowds that's mainly responsible.
 

montyz81

Well-Known Member
Yeah, but Space Mountain was the outlier. Back then there was a lot you could do with little wait. Now nearly everything is 40m+ on a regular basis.
Was it? I remember waiting 60 minutes plus for the following circa 1983 - SM,BTMRR,Mr Toad, HM, SSE, JIIA, WoM, UoE, The Land, AA, Pirates, IYHW, Peter Pan. (Sorry I know I was back and forth). Remember there were less rooms, less allowed into the parks. I wouldn't equate the guest to experience capacity a the same as today, but certainly, it was very busy in the parks.
 

wdisney9000

Truindenashendubapreser
Premium Member
The continual blaming of smartphones as the reason/defense why Disney should create the most dumbed down attractions for Epcot is truly sad. It's a response void of an understanding of what the purpose of having theme PARKS (as in plural, aka, more than one theme park) is all about. It's a response that seems to be born of a desire to defend subconscious complacency.
 

GlacierGlacier

Well-Known Member
People will be using their phones regardless.

What happens in a good park is that people will use those phones to document their experience through photos, social media, and videos.


re: wait times
MK has increased attendance from that 10 million to 20 million but hasn't significantly increased capacity (hourly or otherwise). This holds true for most of WDW.
 

the_rich

Well-Known Member
That's a good point, I don't remember waiting any significant length of time at anything other than Space Mountain when I went as a kid (89, 94, 96), but there was also only something in the neighborhood of 11-14 million guests at MK a year back then compared to cracking over the 20 million that it is now. The other thing is FastPass has created a higher standby time because the regular line has to wait on FastPass lines as they filter in now. All things equal, I like FastPass for its ability to spread some the masses around and guarantee at least three stress free experiences, but I think people weren't prone to get as bored or restless in old queues simply because they kept moving so you felt like you were making progress. I can't remember ever just standing in one place in line for 10+ minutes without moving in the old days, but that seems to be a reality in most lines these days in the new system.
I remember waiting 3 hours in line for back to the Future in June of 94. There were always crowds.
 

Timothy_Q

Well-Known Member
The need to keep people entertained with every step they take or don't take feels like a modern age thing. I remember as a kid waiting in lines at Space Mountain for well over an hour and a half and having nothing but my brothers to talk to. I was 12 at the time. I know technology didn't exist then, but I still feel like your point speaks more to the fact that people need to be continuously entertained rather than just filling space with conversation. I am pretty sure queue entertainment (The likes of HM, BTMRR, SDMT) could have been created back in the day if need be, but it didn't need to be. It is more that we live in the "Insta-moment" rather than the wait and see mentality. For 40 years queue entertainment didn't exist and people still went. In the last 10, many lines have some form of entertainment. And now we have continuous park entertainment on our phones while we go from ride to ride, store to ride, ride to store, and while we sit and eat. 30 years ago it was enough to just wonder at the park while we ate.
That word doesn't mean what you think it does
 

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