BLACKFISH

[Voxel]

Or parrots and sea lion are geniuses!

Those Grey African Parrots are shocking scientist more and more. For all we really know bees are the most intelligent animal. Studies of Animal Intelligence or even human intelligence are quiet flawed. But the article pertained to the subject and felt the need to post it.

 

[Voxel]

Source please?

This is the book by the scientist studying it. http://www.amazon.com/Are-Dolphins-Really-Smart-mammal/dp/019966045X
but if you google it you will see that it has been all over the news lately.

 

[919Florida]

Yeah, Sea Workd has inspired me as well. When I went there in September (first and last time), when I saw dolphins and orcas swimming in concrete tubs, I was inspired to feel sad and I was inspired never to go there again until they get rid of dolphin and whale shows. It didn't take a movie called Blackfish to make me see that putting intelligent animals in nondescript tanks for their entire lives is pretty horrible.

Guess you will never be back then because the dolphins and whales will always be there. What makes you point out these animals specifically?

These animals also have a wonderful life full of care and love. Excercise and enrichment. These animals all know human contact and have never been exposed to the ocean. SeaWorld is what they know. And to take them away from what they have got to kown is wrong too. SeaWorld is not capturing from the ocean. That is an act of the past.

I like to be on the side of a place thats rescuing and helping provide a soltuion and making a difference. I will continue to support Seaworld everyday. I know the truth of what goes on there. I got the facts firsthand

 

[BuddyThomas]

This is the book by the scientist studying it. http://www.amazon.com/Are-Dolphins-Really-Smart-mammal/dp/019966045X
but if you google it you will see that it has been all over the news lately.

That is actually very interesting and I will give it a look. Thanks for the link.

 

[Voxel]

That is actually very interesting and I will give it a look. Thanks for the link.

No problem, the theory is an interesting one. I like how in some ways he is not saying that they are unintelligent but instead that we give them more credit then what is due.

 

[BuddyThomas]

Guess you will never be back then because the dolphins and whales will always be there. What makes you point out these animals specifically?

These animals also have a wonderful life full of care and love. Excercise and enrichment. These animals all know human contact and have never been exposed to the ocean. SeaWorld is what they know. And to take them away from what they have got to kown is wrong too. SeaWorld is not capturing from the ocean. That is an act of the past.

I like to be on the side of a place thats rescuing and helping provide a soltuion and making a difference. I will continue to support Seaworld everyday. I know the truth of what goes on there. I got the facts firsthand

That's fine. One and done is okay with me.

 

[Cosmic Commando]

Do you qualify the relationship as beneficial for a dog - but the same things not being beneficial for other animals taken from the wild? The dog benefits from protection from the environment, predators, medical care, feeding... aren't those all the same for animals in captivity? Dogs didn't evolve to live in fences.

If domestication is 'ok' in your book because 'it was beneficial for both sides' - where do you draw the line on what is beneficial vs destructive?

What I mean by "beneficial" is that it's likely that it began as a voluntary association between ancient man and wolves. No, the dogs of today did not decide to live in your backyard, but your children didn't choose you, either. I'm not debating the ethics of pet ownership today; I was responding to another poster's contention that we are simply "domesticating" the orcas like we domesticated horses or dogs. The first "dogs" would have had a relationship with people like an outdoor housecat... shows up sporadically and is free to roam. They lived close to their natural lives, and took up humans as a "hobby". It's not the same for an orca to go from the 150,000,000,000,000,000,000 gallon Pacific Ocean to a 7,000,000 gallon tank.

 

[flynnibus]

How about horses then? They are held, bred, and trained purely for our enjoyment

 

[luv]

Honestly, it wouldn't bother me if they captured killer whales in the ocean. I don't think it's a terrible thing.

Baby chicks are killed every day. So many adorable baby chicks...dying. Every single day. Because we like eggs.

Cows...and little baby calves...are killed and slaughtered all the time. Because we like cheeseburgers.

Dolphins are kept in theme parks. Because we like looking at them.

That's our world. That's how it goes.

 

[luv]

Still waiting for the Disney boycotts, which I'm sure will be coming.

 

[TalkingHead]

The argument about domesticating dogs, cats, or horses seems to be misdirected.

Why are we debating domestication that started tens of thousands of years ago.

If I own a dog and suggest that dog ownership is acceptable in 2013, is that same as me going out and trapping a fox in the forest and trying to make it live in my house? No, that's a straw man argument.

The question is whether these marine animals that allegedly need a large space to roam are benefited by being kept at SeaWorld.

I don't know the answer to this question, and judging from the debate here, I don't see any solid evidence either way. As a source for evidence, Blackfish is as compelling as a McDonald's Happy Meal box.

 

[TalkingHead]

Honestly, it wouldn't bother me if they captured killer whales in the ocean. I don't think it's a terrible thing.

Baby chicks are killed every day. So many adorable baby chicks...dying. Every single day. Because we like eggs.

Cows...and little baby calves...are killed and slaughtered all the time. Because we like cheeseburgers.

Dolphins are kept in theme parks. Because we like looking at them.

That's our world. That's how it goes.

For one thing, I'm not sure whales were ever captured for any reason other than entertainment. That in itself is a significant difference from killing something to eat it.

Second thing, eggs that we get in the grocery store aren't fertilized, so they aren't "baby chicks."

 

[wdwmom2+1]

Interesting aresponse from sw

http://seaworld.com/ourcare/Letter?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=SWF12SRC&m=1

 

[Master Yoda]

Interesting aresponse from sw

http://seaworld.com/ourcare/Letter?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=SWF12SRC&m=1

More propaganda by those evil Sea World people.

 

[Nemo14]

I just got this letter in an e-mail from Sea World - thought I'd share.

SeaWorld: The Truth Is in Our Parks and People

An Open Letter from SeaWorld’s Animal Advocates
Inaccurate reports recently have generated questions about SeaWorld and the animals in our care. The truth is in our parks and people, and it’s time to set the record straight.



The men and women of SeaWorld are true animal advocates. We are the 1,500 scientists, researchers, veterinarians, trainers, marine biologists, aquarists, aviculturists, educators and conservationists who have dedicated our lives to the animals in our care as well as those in the wild that are injured, ill or orphaned. Whether it’s a sea lion, manatee, sea turtle or whale, we are on call 24/7.



Here are some important facts about SeaWorld and our work:

• SeaWorld does not capture killer whales in the wild. Due to the groundbreaking success of our research in marine mammal reproduction, we haven’t collected a killer whale from the wild in 35 years. In fact, only two of the whales in our care were collected by SeaWorld and they continue to be in our care today. In addition, our research has led to a much greater understanding of whales in the wild, giving researchers important scientific insights surrounding marine mammal reproduction.
  
• We do not separate killer whale moms and calves. SeaWorld recognizes the important bond between mother and calf. On the rare occasion that a mother killer whale cannot care for the calf herself, we have successfully hand raised and reintroduced the calf. Whales are only moved to maintain a healthy social structure.
  
• SeaWorld invests millions of dollars in the care of our killer whales. In the last three years alone, we have invested $70 million in our killer whale habitats and millions of dollars annually in support of these facilities. Our habitats are among the largest in the world today. They are state-of-the-art, multimillion-gallon environments of cooled and filtered water that allow for the highest and safest standards of care. We give our animals restaurant-quality fish, exercise, veterinary care, mental stimulation, and the company of other members of their species.
  
• SeaWorld’s killer whales’ life spans are equivalent with those in the wild. While studies continue to define the average life span of killer whales in the wild, the most recent science suggests that our killer whales’ life spans are comparable — indeed, five of our animals are older than 30, and one of our whales is close to 50.
  
• The killer whales in our care benefit those in the wild. We work with universities, governmental agencies and NGOs to increase the body of knowledge about and the understanding of killer whales — from their anatomy and reproductive biology to their auditory abilities. Some populations of wild killer whales have been classified as endangered or threatened, demonstrating the potential critical nature of these research opportunities. This type of controlled research and study is simply not possible in the wild, and has significant real-world benefits to the killer whales that live there.
  
• SeaWorld is a world leader in animal rescue. The millions of people who visit our parks each year make possible SeaWorld’s world-renowned work in rescue, rehabilitation and release. We are constantly innovating when it comes to this care: Our veterinarians have created nursing bottles to hand-feed orphaned whales, prosthetics to save sea turtles, and a wetsuit to help injured manatees stay afloat during rehabilitation. Whether it’s the result of natural or man-made disasters, SeaWorld is always on call and often the first to be contacted. We have rescued more than 23,000 animals with the goal of treating and returning them to the wild.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  Naturalist Baba Dioum put it best when he said, “In the end we will conserve only what we love; we will love only what we understand; and we will understand only what we have been taught.”
  
  
  
  At SeaWorld, this has been our calling since we first opened our doors 50 years ago. It is a responsibility we do not take lightly. More than 400 million guests have visited SeaWorld. We are proud that their experiences here have a lasting and positive impact on them, and on the world in which we live.
  
  
  
  The truth about SeaWorld is right here in our parks and people. Our guests may enter our gates having never given much thought to the remarkable animals in our oceans. When they leave with a greater appreciation for the importance of the sea, educated about the animals that live there and inspired to make a difference, we have done our job.
  

 

[OFTeric]

I think there will be more to come, now that SeaWorld doesn't have to answer to Blackstone.

But that letter is 100% accurate.

SeaWorld has built one of the world's finest zoological institutions by caring for it's animals. SeaWorld constantly is striving to improve animal care, and this letter just simplifies that information, and I applaud them for putting it out!

 

[flynnibus]

The argument about domesticating dogs, cats, or horses seems to be misdirected.

Why are we debating domestication that started tens of thousands of years ago.

What does time have to do with the justifications being discussed here? If it's wrong now because they are 'intelligent creatures' - or because the relationship is 'beneficial for both sides', etc. These are all arguments that try to justify the hypocrisy between why it's OK to do exactly what they say we shouldn't do... as long as it's not orcas.

Saying 'it happened tens of thousands of years ago' is just dismissing it without being able to address it. Horses are a great example... they still live wild.. we still capture them, seperate them from their herd, put them in pens, and train them purely for our amusement.

If I own a dog and suggest that dog ownership is acceptable in 2013, is that same as me going out and trapping a fox in the forest and trying to make it live in my house? No, that's a straw man argument.

Depends on how you justified owning one vs the other.

The question is whether these marine animals that allegedly need a large space to roam are benefited by being kept at SeaWorld.

Well it's no question the animals are 'wired' to use that space.. so I wouldn't call it 'allegedly'. Their needs are just handled differently in captivity. Just like a cat that is wired to hunt and kill small rodents to survive... has its needs met differently in captivity. Captivity is not the exact thing as it is in the wild.. and I can't think of any examples where we've ever maintained that same standard of 'wild' vs 'captivity' exactly.

 

[JPatton]

How dare you tell me were I learn my ideology! My concept of giving one self up for the betterment of all or even one comes from the World around me, the Bible and the works of Victor Hugo. Les Miserables where Val Jean gives up his life to save an innocent man who claims to be him. Jesus Christ who died for the sins of man whether you believe it or not. My good friend who died trying to save the lives of kids even though he couldn't swim. All of these are sacrifices of one's self for the betterment of another. And I can list many more situations then this.

Voxel, you may sacrifice yourself for the good of others if you choose to, but please leave the animals out of it.

 

[Master Yoda]

Voxel, you may sacrifice yourself for the good of others if you choose to, but please leave the animals out of it.

Let me run a hypothetical situation by you.

It is really hard to argue that whales in captivity have done a huge amount for raising awareness to the whales plight in the wild. Commercial whaling was not banned by the IWC until 1986 partially as a result of this awareness. Would you rather have a very small number of whales in captivity, or a number of whale species go extinct simply because the general public either did not know or care?

 

[Voxel]

@JPatton let me as you a question. When was the last time you went outside to a beach and helped stranded Dolphins. Or make an donation to the organizations who do those activities. I am going to assume never. Who will be come the first response for these Animals in the Wild if Sea World went bankrupt.
@Master Yoda, may historian about the act state that Marine Park providing people a chance to see these animals in the flesh inspired them to work towards those laws.