Black Widow moves to 2021

[Disney Irish]

1. Premier Pass was something that did not exist when she created her contract.

You're making assumptions. You don't know what the plans were for D+ back in 2019 pre-release when the contract was being formed. A lot of us here, myself included, speculated that D+ would offer a PVOD option at some point. And they did just that, just likely quicker than they planned.

Nor did Disney know they were going to do that or it would have been in the contract. Disney panicked during the pandemic and created it.

Again you don't know that. Streaming terms within a talent contract is fairly new concept. The pandemic has accelerated a lot of what has been speculated for years would happen with streaming platforms.

Disney can't just release a new movie on its platform and cut into the box office earnings without compensation for their actors.

That is what the suit is about, but based on what ScarJo's lawyers have provided in their suit so far there is nothing that states they can't. Just assumptions made based on previous "understandings". The determining factor will be whether one can prove that "wide theater release" means the same as "exclusive theatrical release". And then whether its plainly stated in the contract what "wide theater release" means, which based on what I read in the brief it does.

2. Disney saying she does not care about the pandemic is a low blow and cheap shot and dirty. It makes them look petty and will hurt future actors working with them.

Again welcome to Corporate PR. This isn't new. I've seen PR departments for Fortune 100 companies say a lot worse.

But just looking at it from the outside they do have a point. Any reasonable person can't expect that a movie released during a pandemic was ever going to make $1B. And that is what ScarJo's lawyers are claim it would do. That is why they have point, no matter how low blow it might seem.

Whether or not this will affect future talent or not remains to be seen.

That Tower of Terror movie is not happening with her now.

Duh, I only said that already.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

So I mentioned in another thread that what's happening to Disney now parallels what happened to the company in the late 80s/early 90s when they first started to release their animated classics to VHS and the surviving voice talent and other creatives filed suit with Disney.

Guess what division Chapek started his career with the company in 1993? Home Entertainment.

I guess he doesn't remember what happened back then.

 

[Disney Irish]

I'm not surprised at all that talent's blacklisted in Hollywood, and I'm sure ScarJo and crew know they're rankling a few execs right now across Hollywood. I think just as many eyes are on Disney, however, and whether they choose to escalate this or not. WB settled pretty quickly; Disney seems to be digging in. We can only wait and see how it fares for them.

It'll be interesting to watch for sure. And the ripple effects this will have after will surely change the future of talent contracts both inside and outside of Disney forever.

 

[THE 1HAPPY HAUNT]

You're making assumptions. You don't know what the plans were for D+ back in 2019 pre-release when the contract was being formed. A lot of us here, myself included, speculated that D+ would offer a PVOD option at some point. And they did just that, just likely quicker than they planned.

Stop it! No one new a world wide pandemic was coming. No major studio ever in the history of movies released a major motion picture, a tent pole film, on streaming the same days as theatres. Unheard of and unthinkable. when Universal did it with TROLLS WORLD TOUR it shocked the industry and ed off theatre chains. Stop it! No one saw that coming or it would have been in the original contract. Disney violated the terms of the contract by releasing it same day as theatres on Disney Plus and charging for it. So, yeah, I do "know that"

 

[waltography]

She’s one of the top grossing/earning women in Hollywood over the last decade…she certainly wouldn’t do this is if it weren’t the case…

…and If emily blunt were to follow suit (she never seemed to pleased with Disney)…that would be an interesting movement.

My thoughts exactly. I'm sure Emily knows her worth in this too—it's how she knew she had tremendous leeway with Dwayne during their press tour for Jungle Cruise.

 

[Disney Irish]

Stop it! No one new a world wide pandemic was coming. No major studio ever in the history of movies released a major motion picture, a tent pole film, on streaming the same days as theatres. Unheard of and unthinkable. when Universal did it with TROLLS WORLD TOUR it shocked the industry and ****ed off theatre chains. Stop it! No one saw that coming or it would have been in the original contract. Disney violated the terms of the contract by releasing it same day as theatres on Disney Plus and charging for it. So, yeah, I do "know that"

Have you read the actual contract?

For that matter have you actually read the actual brief filed in court?

Do you have actual proof that Disney wasn't planning on having a PVOD option since the beginning?

Or are you basing this whole rant on some media reports you read and a clearly biased opinion you have against current Disney?

The point is you don't know, nor does anyone here really, on what exactly the contract stated. Just because a lawsuit was filed doesn't mean any of the claims are actually true. I can file a lawsuit right now stating that you owe me compensation for tripping and falling while walking in your house, doesn't mean its true and that you owe me anything. A lawsuit is based on the merits of the evidence provided, we'll see if that bears out or not. But again based on my reading of the ACTUAL brief so far what has been provided doesn't hold up. Its based on a lot of assumption and clearly "well we used to do it this way so it must still be this way because we say so".

Also just because something hasn't been done before doesn't mean things can't change. So just because a tent pole film wasn't previously released on streaming the same day as in theaters doesn't mean it won't be that way forever, clearly. This has been predicted now for years, long before the pandemic. Streaming was predicted to change the landscape of Hollywood release model, the pandemic just accelerated it.

So I'm waiting to see what happens. No matter what it'll be interesting. And I'll bet that in any future contract ScarJo will be making sure that it clearly states "exclusive theatrical release" and that streaming is part of any compensation.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Blunt may do this because it almost happened to her on QUIET PLACE 2 but the studio and her handled it quietly, which Disney does not even seem willing to do. ScarJo opened the flood gates for actors to get the money owed to them. They just needed someone to be the first through the door. I fully expect Blunt and Stone to follow suit. The great Jerry West once said one rule you never do is lie to players. Not ever. Same goes for actors.

Blunt wasn’t happy over the “poppins” incident.

 

[THE 1HAPPY HAUNT]

Blunt wasn’t happy over the “poppins” incident.

What poppins incident? can you elaborate?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

What poppins incident? can you elaborate?

The rumor was…and it makes perfect sense considering her demeanor afterward…that her camp felt Disney didn’t properly market/support the release of poppins

she received no Oscar nod (she boycotted the abc produced show)

the “trilogy”/franchise was quickly and unceremoniously cancelled…

she is now known as being the more unsuccessful version of a movie icon character that was a tough choice to try in the first place.

Now in Disney’s defense…I doubt they had to twist her arm…I bet she thought slam dunk 9 figures of pay and more…and she could have read the script, watched the original, and noticed it was a straight up remake…so there’s that too.

Disney sure loves it’s “live action remakes” doesn’t it?

 

[THE 1HAPPY HAUNT]

Do you have actual proof that Disney wasn't planning on having a PVOD option since the beginning?

Yes. because no one ever did it before or planned on doing that. Even a 5 year old COULD tell you movies come out in theatre first, then rental i.e. red box on line pay per view rentals, then home video then on streaming. That's how it worked. FOR DECADES. How it worked right up until the pandemic. STOP IT! Eventually it would have been on Disney Plus for free months after release and after its been on home video for a while. But not at the same time as theatres. That was not the plan because it was nobody's plan until Trolls World Tour was the first TO EVER DO IT. And they did it because of the pandemic. When the deals were signed for Black Widow and the movie was made it was for theatres only at first like EVERY OTHER MAJOR MOVIE EVER MADE up to that point. Use common sense man. After Trolls World Tour was a hit on steaming Disney decided to create Premier Pass and start renting movies online as the same time as theatres as a way to get more money during the pandemic and they started with Mulan. Even the first trailers for BLACK WIDOW before the pandemic said "IN THEATRES" not "IN THEATRES AND DISNEY PLUS" . That's how you know it was not the original plan to have it on Disney Plus or did you forget that? Disney changing the release strategy post pandemic violated the contract and now, now they're gonna pay.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Yes. because no one ever did it before or planned on doing that. Even a 5 year old COULD tell you movies come out in theatre first, then rental i.e. red box on line pay per view rentals, then home video then on streaming. That's how it worked. FOR DECADES. How it worked right up until the pandemic. STOP IT! Eventually it would have been on Disney Plus for free months after release and after its been on home video for a while. But not at the same time as theatres. That was not the plan because it was nobody's plan until Trolls World Tour was the first TO EVER DO IT. And they did it because of the pandemic. When the deals were signed for Black Widow and the movie was made it was for theatres only at first like EVERY OTHER MAJOR MOVIE EVER MADE up to that point. Use common sense man. After Trolls World Tour was a hit on steaming Disney decided to create Premier Pass and start renting movies online as the same time as theatres as a way to get more money during the pandemic and they started with Mulan. Even the first trailers for BLACK WIDOW before the pandemic said "IN THEATRES" not "IN THEATRES AND DISNEY PLUS" . That's how you know it was not the original plan to have it on Disney Plus or did you forget that? Disney changing the release strategy post pandemic violated the contract and now, now they're gonna pay.

You might be oversimplifying it a bit…but I agree they can’t now say “that was Planned” and win it in court.

where the conglomerates looking to go direct to stream? No doubt…but they can’t make the case it could or would have happened in 2020/2021…that movie was shot several years ago when tent poles were making $1.5+ worldwide without breaking a sweat. They can run charts into court to make a easy case of precedent when the contract was signed and production occurred…

so Disney can’t say it was to be expected…not until years in the future

 

[Disney Irish]

Yes. because no one ever did it before or planned on doing that. Even a 5 year old COULD tell you movies come out in theatre first, then rental i.e. red box on line pay per view rentals, then home video then on streaming. That's how it worked. FOR DECADES. How it worked right up until the pandemic. STOP IT! Eventually it would have been on Disney Plus for free months after release and after its been on home video for a while. But not at the same time as theatres. That was not the plan because it was nobody's plan until Trolls World Tour was the first TO EVER DO IT. And they did it because of the pandemic. When the deals were signed for Black Widow and the movie was made it was for theatres only at first like EVERY OTHER MAJOR MOVIE EVER MADE up to that point. Use common sense man. After Trolls World Tour was a hit on steaming Disney decided to create Premier Pass and start renting movies online as the same time as theatres as a way to get more money during the pandemic and they started with Mulan. Even the first trailers for BLACK WIDOW before the pandemic said "IN THEATRES" not "IN THEATRES AND DISNEY PLUS" . That's how you know it was not the original plan to have it on Disney Plus or did you forget that? Disney changing the release strategy post pandemic violated the contract and now, now they're gonna pay.

There is a reason the term "Simultaneous Release" and "Day-and-Date Release" existed long before 2020. It because sorry to burst your bubble but Trolls was not the first to ever do it as you claim.

Other films have done it in the past, such a The Interview. Indy films use to do it as far back as early 2000s, Kevin Smith even did it with his horror film Red State where it was actually released on PVOD first and then to theaters a couple days later. This is not a new concept. Netflix has done it for some of their Netflix originals in order to get them eligible for award season. So again its not new, Universal and Disney weren't blazing any trials here.

And as for whether Disney ever "planned" it for Black Widow, of course not. I'm sure they would have loved to release it to 100% packed theaters across the globe, but that hasn't been possible and may not be for a long time. But that doesn't mean the contract bound them to be "exclusive theatrical release only". So it'll all come down to how the contract can be clearly interpreted if it goes to trial. And based on what I've read of the actual excerpts from the contract that were filed with the brief it can be argued that Disney was well within their rights to release it as they did as long as it went to theaters also.

The long term affect of this will be that all contract moving forward will have a clear provision for "Day-and-Date Releases", as they should.

 

[Disney Irish]

You might be oversimplifying it a bit…but I agree they can’t now say “that was Planned” and win it in court.

where the conglomerates looking to go direct to stream? No doubt…but they can’t make the case it could or would have happened in 2020/2021…that movie was shot several years ago when tent poles were making $1.5+ worldwide without breaking a sweat. They can run charts into court to make a easy case of precedent when the contract was signed and production occurred…

so Disney can’t say it was to be expected…not until years in the future

It'll all comes down to the interpretation of the term "wide theatrical release", and is the intent to mean "exclusive theatrical release". That is what will be argued on both sides.

 

[THE 1HAPPY HAUNT]

There is a reason the term "Simultaneous Release" and "Day-and-Date Release" existed long before 2020. It because sorry to burst your bubble but Trolls was not the first to ever do it as you claim.

Other films have done it in the past, such a The Interview. Indy films use to do it as far back as early 2000s, Kevin Smith even did it with his horror film Red State where it was actually released on PVOD first and then to theaters a couple days later. This is not a new concept. Netflix has done it for some of their Netflix originals in order to get them eligible for award season. So again its not new, Universal and Disney weren't blazing any trials here.

And as for whether Disney ever "planned" it for Black Widow, of course not. I'm sure they would have loved to release it to 100% packed theaters across the globe, but that hasn't been possible and may not be for a long time. But that doesn't mean the contract bound them to be "exclusive theatrical release only". So it'll all come down to how the contract can be clearly interpreted if it goes to trial. And based on what I've read of the actual excerpts from the contract that were filed with the brief it can be argued that Disney was well within their rights to release it as they did as long as it went to theaters also.

The long term affect of this will be that all contract moving forward will have a clear provision for "Day-and-Date Releases", as they should.

Trolls World Tour was the first ever MAJOR STUDIO RELEASE to do it. (which is what I have said from the start) sure there have been some crappy independent or small studio movies to do it but we are talking MAJOR STUDIO RELEASE , and yes TROLLS WORLD TOUR was the first. and it ed off AMC THEATRES immensely. You are wrong. Flat out.

 

[THE 1HAPPY HAUNT]

And as for whether Disney ever "planned" it for Black Widow, of course not.

Then why the hell have you been saying "you don't know it was not planned for disney plus release from the start"?????!!! Why did you pointlessly give me a hard time about that when you agree with me????!!!!!!

 

[Disney Irish]

T

Trolls World Tour was the first ever MAJOR STUDIO RELEASE to do it. (which is what I have said from the start) sure there have been some crappy independent or small studio movies to do it but we are talking MAJOR STUDIO RELEASE , and yes TROLLS WORLD TOUR was the first. and it ****ed off AMC THEATRES immensely. You are wrong. Flat out.

Um, no, Sony released The Interview same day back in 2014. Don't think Sony is some small studio. It was suppose to be a major release for them. But they couldn't due to unforeseen circumstances, hmm, just like we had in 2020. So again this is not unprecedented.

And the stars of that film didn't go sue Sony because of what happened. Also just FYI, I'm actually on no side here, I'm not blaming ScarJo or Disney, I'm just stating the facts.

 

[Disney Irish]

Then why the hell have you been saying "you don't know it was not planned for disney plus release from the start"?????!!! Why did you pointlessly give me a hard time about that when you agree with me????!!!!!!

You misunderstood what I was saying. My point is that you don't know that the Premier Access option in D+ was planned or not to be part of it. Your claim that they only did it as a result of the pandemic is not factually accurate. Its been discussed in the industry for a long time now that all the streaming platforms would be planning a PVOD option for their systems, that includes D+. They just weren't planning on adding the option as soon as they did.

I never claimed they were planning on doing it with Black Widow. My point has been and continues to be that the contract as written doesn't appear to bind Disney to a theatrical only release. So if that bears out then Disney did nothing wrong. Now whether ScarJo should be receive some compensation outside of what Disney was contractually obligated to pay her, that is another question.

 

[Dead2009]

because she is suing disney for not giving her what's in her contract.

So....you dont know. Got it.

 

[THE 1HAPPY HAUNT]

So....you dont know. Got it.

I know she didn't get what was in her contract or she wouldn't be suing considering she is A LIST MAJOR HOLLYWOOD STAR

 

[SweetDuffy101]

Right?! Disney probably shouldn’t have been bragging so much after Black Widow’s first weekend. I think it came across as a little obnoxious and may have P’d some people off.

I wonder how many people don’t even realize that Boo Bash is not a rebranding of Not So Scary and are getting less for their bucks…

I mean they do need the budget for the 50th anniversary