Black Panther: Wakanda Forever

[Sirwalterraleigh]

While Top Gun Maverick is a legitimately good movie, I hate how it's being weaponized by those who despise diversity in film.

Anyway, I think Black Panther: Wakanda Forever's box office will ultimately depend on whether it's a good movie. If the movie without T'challa is a complete mess, I don't see it making much more than $700 million. But if the film manages to be a satisfying and emotional tribute to Boseman's legacy AND tells a compelling story the movie could be just as much as a phenomenon as the first movie.

Totally agree with you assessment of it’s chances.

As far as top gun:
I don’t like that either…they managed to just make a throwback sequel that is almost impossible to do. It’s not about a social or political statement - to me. For all it’s flaws - that 1980’s action summer movie is a bit of nostalgia that people do long for. But we don’t have to reject movies if everything is not perfect and we often do.

But this is a good indicator of why Hollywood is stumbling - led by Disney. In an effort to heal old wounds, they create conflict in their fun.
Didn’t a lucasfilm person just say recently “we’re done making Star Wars for 40 year old white guys”
That is the DUMBEST Thing ever. You actively antagonize who got you here? Because you can make movies for 40 year old white guys without filling them with 40 year old white guys. Baby and the bathwater. That’s blaming the audience for the bad product…tweet Rian Johnson style. The audience isn’t that stupid nor that bigoted. So why ask for apologies to CYA.
Just dumb.

I'm not even comparing it to Maverick, that is just silly to do. And I absolutely agree that I think it'll have just as many if not more moviegoers this time around to honor Chadwick.

We’re gonna see for sure. I’d like to think that black panther’s success is repeated without a hiccup…but it’s gonna have to be a phenomenal movie and that’s far from certain. It’s paddling upstream.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Namor is one character that almost all Marvel fans have been begging for in the MCU outside of F4 and X-Men.

And in the post credit scene, he kidnaps Sue Storm!

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

MCU need to unleash the X…and reform the avengers past that.

“This is the way”

I’d like to hope a good FF can come out of this fox thing…but I think maybe those characters aren’t that interesting

Maybe now that Jack Ryan is in charge?

 

[MisterPenguin]

I’m also a huge fan that this is now essentially a Black Woman Ensemble. That’s even more impactful in some ways.

Will they pass the Bechdel test tho?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Will they pass the Bechdel test tho?

…you joke…but…

 

[Disney Irish]

Well the movie arc is downward now…as it stands. I think that continues. Guardians 3 is most likely to be the anomaly to that. But we’ll see.

Well that is your opinion, but I disagree. Phase 4 is Phase 1 of the Multiverse Saga. They are building to the climax in Phase 6, so the arc is upward my friend not downward. People forget it took over 11 years to get From Iron Man in 2008 to End Game in 2019. And now they are doing it in half the time, which in my opinion is good.

Thor isn’t coming close…doctor strange puttered out and I think that was one of the best efforts of the last few years. But opinions vary.

Dr Strange 2 hit $954M, that isn't "puttered out". Thor 4 still has time left, so don't count it out.

They have back to back “avengers” slated and they really don’t have any avengers left…who’s in that again?

Avengers have never been just one line up of heros, and you know that. They have been building up a new roster of Avengers with the Young Avengers.

 

[Ghost93]

And in the post credit scene, he kidnaps Sue Storm!

On the topic of Fantastic Four, there have been significant rumors and unofficial reports that Dr. Doom will make his debut in Black Panther: Wakanda Forever. Could he be the one behind-the-scenes orchestrating the conflict between Namor and Wakanda?

 

[BrianLo]

Well the movie arc is downward now…as it stands. I think that continues. Guardians 3 is most likely to be the anomaly to that. But we’ll see.

Thor isn’t coming close…doctor strange puttered out and I think that was one of the best efforts of the last few years. But opinions vary.

They have back to back “avengers” slated and they really don’t have any avengers left…who’s in that again?

Spider-Man. Above all else Tom Holland doesn’t seem like he is going anywhere. There’s still Thor, Bruce and Hawkeye. The actual comic origins would include Ant Man and the Wasp.

There’s all the blatantly subbed D+ replacement options.

ShangChi, which hit well, Doctor Strange and Co. The host of cosmic level characters and your C-list D+ characters.

Likely biggest of all is Fantastic 4 (which almost assuredly feature) and eventually eventually X-men for phase 7-9. It’s hard to recall that the Avengers were the B team and their heavy hitters were all with Fox and Sony.

 

[Disney Irish]

On the topic of Fantastic Four, there have been significant rumors and unofficial reports that Dr. Doom will make his debut in Black Panther: Wakanda Forever. Could he be the one behind-the-scenes orchestrating the conflict between Namor and Wakanda?

Are we thinking its a Doom vs Kang Battle World scenario?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Spider-Man. Above all else Tom Holland doesn’t seem like he is going anywhere. There’s still Thor, Bruce and Hawkeye. The actual comic origins would include Ant Man and the Wasp.

There’s all the blatantly subbed D+ replacement options.

ShangChi, which hit well, Doctor Strange and Co. The host of cosmic level characters and your C-list D+ characters.

Likely biggest of all is Fantastic 4 (which almost assuredly feature) and eventually eventually X-men for phase 7-9. It’s hard to recall that the Avengers were the B team and their heavy hitters were all with Fox and Sony.

FF just never seems to get any traction on the screen. Since they’ve been toiling at it in one form or another for 20-30 years.

Who knows how that goes this time?

And I fully think there intent with avengers was to put it around captain marvel, black panther and the new captain America

…meh…not that impressive these days

 

[BrianLo]

FF just never seems to get any traction on the screen. Since they’ve been toiling at it in one form or another for 20-30 years.

Who knows his that goes this time?

And I fully think there intent with avengers was to put it around captain marvel, black panther and the new captain America

…meh…not that impressive these days

Maybe! This is why I am somewhat glad they are tucking away the Avengers until Phase 6.

I just mean T’Challa doesn’t really seem to make or break any of their plans with that element. Someone is wearing the suit already and can show up by then in his stead.

I also forgot about Loki (and Sam Jackson). Who I think is on track to be a critical piece and holds major star power still in addition to being OG call backs.

 

[BrianLo]

Unrelated note, but I really wish we had a young Avengers lined up earlier. We already have all those set pieces now and I’m surprised it’s no where to be seen. The D+ shows would all be more tied together.

 

[Ghost93]

Unrelated note, but I really wish we had a young Avengers lined up earlier. We already have all those set pieces now and I’m surprised it’s no where to be seen. The D+ shows would all be more tied together.

So there is an untilted Marvel movie coming out in July of 2025 in between Avengers the Kang Dynasty (May 2, 2025) and Avengers: Secret Wars (November 2025).

What I predict will happen is that there will be some type of cliffhanger at the end of the Kang Dynasty where all of the main adult Avengers leave earth or go to another universe to fight Kang the Conqueror.

Then, in the July of 2025, we will get a Young Avengers movie. I believe the Young Avengers will form specifically due to the absence of adult Avengers, and they will save the earth when no other Avengers can. The lineup will include Wiccan and Speed (Wanda's sons), Kate Bishop, Cassie Lang, Hulkling, Patriot and America Chavez. Ms Marvel and Ironheart may also be on the team, despite not being members in the comics. While Billy and Tommy have only been seen as children, a leaked casting call for the Agatha: Coven of Chaos makes me think an older version of Billy/Wiccan will debut on that show.

I suspect the plot will be a loose adaptation of the Children's Crusade, in which Wiccan and Speed (Wanda's sons) and the rest of the Young Avengers go on a quest to find the Scarlet Witch.

 

[Disney Irish]

Anyways to get back on topic, the rest can be discussed in the other Marvel Phases thread.

Do we think Namor will end up teaming up with the Avengers at the end of this, or will he still be a foe?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Unrelated note, but I really wish we had a young Avengers lined up earlier. We already have all those set pieces now and I’m surprised it’s no where to be seen. The D+ shows would all be more tied together.

Ehhh…this is the kinda thing that indicates the comic book stuff won’t ever fizzle/oversaturate. It will…they’ll have to tone it back/reinvent/etc.

The reality of the avengers iced their best characters due to “cost control”…so that may be what hurts longterm. I’m less invested in the MCU with no Evans…I’ll readily admit. The backbone of the whole thing.

 

[DCBaker]

 

[erasure fan1]

Anyways to get back on topic, the rest can be discussed in the other Marvel Phases thread.

Do we think Namor will end up teaming up with the Avengers at the end of this, or will he still be a foe?

It's hard to say. I'm no Namor scholar, but I seem to recall him having a whole fantastic 4 plot where he teamed up with Doom to fight the F4. So maybe he stays a villain through F4 and then joins the avengers at the end of that?

 

[LSLS]

Are we thinking its a Doom vs Kang Battle World scenario?

For a while there were all sorts of galactic rumors as well, weren't there?

 

[MisterPenguin]

Namor background at 7:50...

 

[Jedijax719]

Anyways to get back on topic, the rest can be discussed in the other Marvel Phases thread.

Do we think Namor will end up teaming up with the Avengers at the end of this, or will he still be a foe?

I predict (based on nothing other than Namor also being a hero in the comics) that Namor will be set up by someone else to fight Wakanda and will realize as such and join them.