Jedijax719
Well-Known Member
Looks absolutely fantastic and stunning on my end!
Wished to see more extras and deleted scenes though.
Wished to see more extras and deleted scenes though.
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Black Panther: Wakanda Forever
- Thread starter Lucky Rabbit
- Start date
Phroobar
Well-Known Member
I watched it again last night. This is a long movie and feels like another introduction/setup movie just like most Disney+ Marvel series are. It starts out well with Shuri trying to make a new herb to save her brother. It was a nice tribute to the fallen hero. Then things start to feel like multiple movies at once. The Queen goes back on her word to share their tech with the rest of the world. I'm not sure why she would do that since that makes Wakanda a rogue nation that everyone else is going to target. An example of "it is ok if Wakanda does it". How hard can it be take down a nation that uses spears, armored rhinos and helicopters. The Na'vi in Avatar did it pretty easily and the Marvel version of them do it here.
Vibranium is found in the ocean. The water based Na'vi defend it. Namor decides he needs to grab the scientist (Magoffin) that made a vibranium detector and Shuri to make the Queen join in a quest to wipe out the land dwellers since his people were killed by conquistadors before becoming blue Na'vi. This escalates quickly with the invasion of Wakanda and the Queen is killed. I know Angela Bassett is nominated for an Oscar for this and she is the most buff 65 year old I've seen in a long time but this is far from her best roll. She spends it being angry and wanting Shuri back. If she does win, I would consider it more of a lifetime achievement since she has been many better movies. She did what she could with the bad writing.
Shuri makes a new herb and makes herself the Black Panther even though she has no fighting experience and could be blown away by a strong wind. Why not just give the herb to her royal guard instead of making blue beetle costumes? He scientist buddy makes an Iron Man outfit because any smart teenager can make one as long as Marvel need a replacement for Tony. Otherwise she is completely useless to the plot. Martin Freeman is in there spilling state secrets to Wakanda while Baroness Hydra watches on. Shuri figures out if he makes Namor hot, he will lose his super powers. Is this movie trolling us now? Wakanda has a submarine like most land locked countries have and goes out to battle Namor. Shuri takes a spear to gut but somehow survives and shrugs it off because if you can survive a lightsaber to the gut, a spear is no different. Namor surrenders even though he was a few feet away from water and his army had won the boat battle.
Everyone is happy and we have a really well written and acted ending tributing T'Challa. The hyped Boseman tribute song plays over the credits. Two more core male Avengers have be replaced with women. <sigh> This movie should have been better. You see elements from older drafts when Boseman was still with us. They course corrected in a panic and made a mess. Can we now move on to phase five and forget all of this?
Vibranium is found in the ocean. The water based Na'vi defend it. Namor decides he needs to grab the scientist (Magoffin) that made a vibranium detector and Shuri to make the Queen join in a quest to wipe out the land dwellers since his people were killed by conquistadors before becoming blue Na'vi. This escalates quickly with the invasion of Wakanda and the Queen is killed. I know Angela Bassett is nominated for an Oscar for this and she is the most buff 65 year old I've seen in a long time but this is far from her best roll. She spends it being angry and wanting Shuri back. If she does win, I would consider it more of a lifetime achievement since she has been many better movies. She did what she could with the bad writing.
Shuri makes a new herb and makes herself the Black Panther even though she has no fighting experience and could be blown away by a strong wind. Why not just give the herb to her royal guard instead of making blue beetle costumes? He scientist buddy makes an Iron Man outfit because any smart teenager can make one as long as Marvel need a replacement for Tony. Otherwise she is completely useless to the plot. Martin Freeman is in there spilling state secrets to Wakanda while Baroness Hydra watches on. Shuri figures out if he makes Namor hot, he will lose his super powers. Is this movie trolling us now? Wakanda has a submarine like most land locked countries have and goes out to battle Namor. Shuri takes a spear to gut but somehow survives and shrugs it off because if you can survive a lightsaber to the gut, a spear is no different. Namor surrenders even though he was a few feet away from water and his army had won the boat battle.
Everyone is happy and we have a really well written and acted ending tributing T'Challa. The hyped Boseman tribute song plays over the credits. Two more core male Avengers have be replaced with women. <sigh> This movie should have been better. You see elements from older drafts when Boseman was still with us. They course corrected in a panic and made a mess. Can we now move on to phase five and forget all of this?
Vegas Disney Fan
Well-Known Member
Despite agreeing with basically everything you said, and the darkness issues I already talked about, I still enjoyed this movie far more than the first.
Sure there’s some plot issues, they turned more male superheroes into female superheroes, the water people were Navi rip offs, a couple of the music choices were PotC rip offs… despite all that’s it was still a very entertaining movie.
It won’t make my top 5 Marvel list but it’s definitely in the top half.
Sure there’s some plot issues, they turned more male superheroes into female superheroes, the water people were Navi rip offs, a couple of the music choices were PotC rip offs… despite all that’s it was still a very entertaining movie.
It won’t make my top 5 Marvel list but it’s definitely in the top half.
Phroobar
Well-Known Member
Definitely not top 5 but more lower 7 for me. It definitely didn't deserve the hype.
_caleb
Well-Known Member
Why am I not surprised this would be your opinion about Wakanda Forever?
Jedijax719
Well-Known Member
It's top 5 for me:
1. Black Panther
2. Iron Man 1
3. Endgame
4. Infinity War
5. Wakanda Forever
6. Guardians of the Galaxy
7. Avengers
8. Shang Chi
9. No Way Home
10. Civil War
1. Black Panther
2. Iron Man 1
3. Endgame
4. Infinity War
5. Wakanda Forever
6. Guardians of the Galaxy
7. Avengers
8. Shang Chi
9. No Way Home
10. Civil War
MarvelCharacterNerd
Well-Known Member
Finally watched and definitely enjoyed. Was teary from the start and at the end and at various points that the loss of T'Challa conflated with the loss of Chadwick. I continue to love Shuri dearly (and Ramonda and Okoye and Ayo) but Riri needs more development that I look forward to seeing in her show. The reinterpretation of Namor was better than I expected. Martin Freeman is pretty much the definition of charming and continues to please in a very vanilla role. But yes, the FX was terrible. It was like they forgot how to do practical fight scenes that would have been breathtaking and instead went full video game mode.
I'm not sure how the film will stand on its own. But it's one I will definitely watch again at some point and was the best of the (low bar) rest of the Phase 4 films for me - setting SM: NWH apart as that is probably top 3 MCU overall for me.
I'm not sure how the film will stand on its own. But it's one I will definitely watch again at some point and was the best of the (low bar) rest of the Phase 4 films for me - setting SM: NWH apart as that is probably top 3 MCU overall for me.
Jedijax719
Well-Known Member
I'm going to guess that in BP3,
I would also not be surprised if the main villain will be either
or
. It's easy to say it would be Doom, but I think they are reserving him for F4 and Avengers 6. Namor, meanwhile, will be on the outside looking in and MAY actually help Wakanda, but will be challenged by Namorita and Attuma.
young T'challa will train along side Aunt Shuri, kind of like the way young T'challa was going to train along side his dad before Chadwick's passing
I would also not be surprised if the main villain will be either
Kraven the Hunter, who Coogler wanted in Black Panther and is getting his own set up movie
Tetu
BubbaisSleep
Well-Known Member
The only problem I see with
Kraven
Jedijax719
Well-Known Member
That's what they've done with Spiderman. And Universal "owns" Namor so they can do a solo film but keep Namor with other MCU films at Disney.
Speaking of which, I wonder if Universal Studios can do a Namor/Talocan themed area? They have their new section coming. For that matter, they can do a Wakanda also since they have the park rights.
Disney Irish
Premium Member
There are differences however between the Sony/Marvel deal and the Universal/Marvel deal.
With the Universal/Marvel deal they don't "own" Incredible Hulk or Namor characters its just for distribution rights for solo films, but not how the characters can be used within other Marvel films.
But with Sony it was full character rights for the entire Spider-Man family of characters and how they are used, even in the MCU. The only reason they got Holland Spider-Man into the MCU is because of a renegotiation of just the Peter Parker/Spider-Man character in exchange for Feige's help to build out their Sony Spider-Verse. It was a win for the MCU as they got to use Spider-Man and a win for Sony's Marvel movies as they look like they are closely tied to the MCU, even if they aren't in reality.
As for Kraven in the MCU, its debatable on whether the Sony Spider-Verse solo movies without Spider-Man will be successful. So in the long run I could see Sony making another deal to get more Spider-Man family of characters into the MCU, but wouldn't actually bet money on it.
And no Universal can't just use Namor in a themed area as he was not part of the original Uni/Marvel Theme Park deal. Also I believe with Black Panther its limited to just the character and not a whole theme land such as Wakanda.
MarvelCharacterNerd
Well-Known Member
I think Namor may be represented at Universal Orlando (maybe just an illustration or the name or something? Can't recall specifically.). However, if I understand the agreement correctly, Universal can't do MCU versions of characters or locations in the parks, only comics versions.
Disney Irish
Premium Member
I can't confirm if he is currently represented at UO either. But what is clear they can't do anything new with him, its limited to only existing usage I believe, and can't use the MCU versions of any character as you stated. So they can't create a new attraction starring Namor or can't build a Wakanda themed area.
tcool123
Well-Known Member
Namor has his own restroom near the exit/entrance into Toon Lagoon.
A big graphic of him that you can’t miss - if you’re using the restroom; otherwise very missable.
But they could use the og version of Namor, the version that is unfamiliar to the public
MarvelCharacterNerd
Well-Known Member
I THOUGHT there was an image of him somewhere - just couldn't remember where! Thanks for confirmation!
But what it would therefore mean is that WDW couldn't do anything with Namor since a version of him is at Uni - again if I understand how the contract works.
Disney Irish
Premium Member
True, but again based on my understanding of the Uni/Marvel contract they can't do anything really new with him. Meaning that I don't believe they can build a new coaster and slap Namor all over it. I could be misremembering the contract but that is how I remember it read. This is why they can't tear down and rebuild the Incredible Hulk coaster, they can refurbish it but can't completely tear it down and rebuild it. Not to mention that Marvel has final approval on usage anyways.
Under the original contract that's public now, Uni couldn't use new characters if they didn't option them after the first two years of the contract.
What they did option was Spider-Man, Avengers, Fantastic Four, Hulk, X-Men... and with them, all their "family" of characters.
Namor is clearly a Fantastic Four villain, so, they *could* use him for a new ride in Superhero Island. But only the old comic book version. Not this new MCU take. Which is unlikely.
There's a supposed revised contract which is more specific about what is on the table and off of it. We don't know what it says.
Disney Irish
Premium Member
Thanks, its been awhile since I read over the original contract. But I remember that was always a sticking point with new stuff which has been used as a reason why they won't do a tear down and do a complete rebuild of the Hulk coaster.
I'd rather believe the reason that they won't do a full re-do of Hulk is the same reason Disney hasn't done a full re-do of Space Mountain.
Disney Irish
Premium Member
Well after OLC completes their Space Mountain redo Disney may change their minds....
