News Big Thunder Mountain to receive full retrack

James J

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
Edited my posts so there should be nothing that can get anyone fired anymore, but I'm not trying to flex. I'm trying to get people to believe this (true) rumor
The multiple users here that have established, trustworthy sources and are pointing out inaccuracies in what you're being told should be a hint that your source doesn't know as much as they think they do. I know you want to trust them fully, but listen to what users here are posting.
 

Purduevian

Well-Known Member
Regarding "capacity" difference of opening Tiana vs closing BTMRR. There are two ways to look at capacity.

1) Rides per hour of the park. No debate this will go down
2) Guests taken off walkways and onto attractions/lines. IF Disney chooses to remove Tron from VQ when TBA, the Tron line (which currently sits around 45mins with VQ) would soak up a lot of people off the walkways with a longer line.

So the pathways, shops, restaurants ect might not get any more crowded if they take tron off VQ
 

ToTBellHop

Well-Known Member
Edited my posts so there should be nothing that can get anyone fired anymore, but I'm not trying to flex. I'm trying to get people to believe this (true) rumor
Why does it matter if anyone believes you?

As in all facets of life, if you say things that end up being true, eventually people will trust you.

Imagine the lawsuits if, heaven forbid, there were an accident on Space Mtn. and it came out that management said it would need to fall apart for them to fix it.

They know both BTMRR and Space need a full replacement and they will do so. Changes made to Space Mtn in the 2000s have allowed it to run safely but even with those changes, they can’t defer much longer.

The big question is: how much will change? Will they go the DL route or the TDL route?
 

FerretAfros

Well-Known Member
Something I haven't seen much discussion about with regard to any development "beyond" Big Thunder is how the ride's vehicle storage/maintenance building is poorly located for future expansion in that area. In the image below, the maintenance building is circled in red, with the spur track (including railroad crossing) roughly drawn in blue. While that location beyond the berm likely made sense when the ride was built, in 2024 it's plopped right in the middle of the easiest expansion pad.

capture.jpg


If the ride is going to be closed for an extended period, that would be the logical time to relocate this building to a less conspicuous area to allow for future development. This has the potential to impact to the railroad as well, but hopefully that work could be done in a way that minimizes downtime and/or is done in overnight hours, unlike how the Tron work was handled. There are a variety of backstage uses that would need to be reconfigured to allow an expansion of guest space in the area west of BTMRR, so this would just be one piece to solving that puzzle.

I really wish some people would try and think about the bigger picture of logistically how a theme park needs to be run and not how they want one to be. It's not even just theme park logic, it's business logic.

Unfortunately WDW has for the most part deferred any meaningful maintenance on most of their attractions for 10+ years which has conditioned guests to expect everything to be open all the time.

Look over at Tokyo (know for being the best maintained Disney Park) and Paris (who's been playing catch up for 20 years of maintenance they couldn't previously afford over the last 10 years) where there is nearly always a major attraction plus some mid/minor attractions closed as well.

I know Paris better but in the last 10 years Thunder, Phantom, Pirates, IASW have all had 1 year + refurbishments whilst literally every other attraction in the park has been closed for 3-9 months. This is in addition to periodic 1-3 month refurbs. And many of these overlap massively. The result is the rides are much more up to modern standards in Paris than WDW... LED lighting, new sound systems, modern safety systems, improved emergency egress, asbestos free, improved cast environment. WDW is so far behind.
Part of the problem is that all four of WDW’s parks have been so underinvested for so long that they simply don’t have the capacity to take much of anything offline for long enough to do the necessary maintenance. WDW has spent the last decade-plus doing everything they can to avoid building new attractions despite increasing attendance, leaving the parks in a state that require nearly everything to be operating every day of the year. Obviously this is an unrealistic expectation in a world of moving parts and heavy usage, where things naturally wear down and require maintenance, but it’s where we are at the moment.

To have adequate capacity slack to allow a basic ongoing maintenance regime, each park needs at least 2-3 more E-tickets and a handful of minor attractions. This would allow the park to continue to function while attractions are closed for maintenance during off-peak periods and provide extra capacity for peak periods (Christmas, spring break, etc.) when everything can operate simultaneously. We've had rumblings for years about how a park will fianlly be able to catch-up on major maintenance for certain aging major attractions once a new attraction opens (Pandora/Everest, Tron/Space Mountain, Tiana/Big Thunder, etc.), but in reality this never seems to be the case as attendance continues to grow faster than capacity.

This isn't a matter of "it would be nice to have," it's one of the basics of business in the real world. While this issue exists to a degree everywhere, it is especially bad in WDW, where attendance growth has outstripped ride (and to a lesser extent, dining) capacity for so long. Having additional overall attraction capacity would allow them to close things intermittently for regular maintenance and extended refurbishments without significant impacts to the park experience.
 

peng

Well-Known Member
Yeah closing BTMRR will kneecap capacity, no way this takes three years or is super extensive. It's one of the most popular rides at the park and while TBA will also eat a ton of capacity when it opens (since it is the park's big water ride and unless the redo turned out horribly, which I doubt), BTM closing will make waits significantly worse across the park. Besides, save for an effect or two not working, its in good shape, space mountain is due for an update as its effects and most of its score are extremely broken and its overdue for one (despite the charging tunnel effect actually working, unlike its counterpart in DL). I also think that if a redo comes to space mountain, it will be a DL style redo where its re-tracked, but with no big changes to the show (same for big thunder).
 

HauntedPirate

Park nostalgist
Premium Member
Why does it matter if anyone believes you?

As in all facets of life, if you say things that end up being true, eventually people will trust you.

Imagine the lawsuits if, heaven forbid, there were an accident on Space Mtn. and it came out that management said it would need to fall apart for them to fix it.

They know both BTMRR and Space need a full replacement and they will do so. Changes made to Space Mtn in the 2000s have allowed it to run safely but even with those changes, they can’t defer much longer.

The big question is: how much will change? Will they go the DL route or the TDL route?
Not the thread for this, but I'm in the camp that wants the layout to stay the same, just with new track. Adding inversions and other "thrills" is entirely unnecessary.
 

LSLS

Well-Known Member
I have no inside knowledge, but I'll say them closing it down in the next month or so makes sense to me. Piecing together things from other threads, we have a pretty good idea that attendance was down last summer, and it's on pace to be even worse this summer. If you are closing a major attraction for a lot of work, it would make sense to do it over the summer months when it will impact your crowds less, especially if it's going to be around 15-18 months (so you would either miss the summer twice or the winter twice). It would also make sense to announce it around 3 months out so people can "Get their last rides in for a while," but PR does weird things.
 

peng

Well-Known Member
From a random discord server, it seems like this was a rumor that has been swirling among the CMs too. Guessing it will be closed down after tiana opens then (but probably not June).
 

TheCoasterNerd

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
In the Parks
No
No major layout/show scene changes that my source is aware of, but the maintenance bay may move to accommodate BBTM
 

JMcMahonEsq

Well-Known Member
Not the thread for this, but I'm in the camp that wants the layout to stay the same, just with new track. Adding inversions and other "thrills" is entirely unnecessary.
I actually think this raises a good talking point. Depending on how long a re-track would take, if its going to be for a longish period of time, rather than taking BTM out of circulation to just to bring it back with shiny new rail, why not take the time to add something "new" to the park, and to have a ride with more thrills or inversions that currently doesn't exist in any form in the park.

I mean in the realm of smaller/junior coasters, you already have the Barnstormer, Space Mountain, 7D mine train. You now have Tron, but even that doesn't have any inversions and is a short ride. If you can do the maintenance and the track replacement in short order, I agree don't fix something that isn't broken. BUT if its going to take some time, why not get the maximum benifit from that down time and if you can go with a redesigned ride that maybe adds some thrills and with a layout that fits into the planned expansion.
 

mattpeto

Well-Known Member
No major layout/show scene changes that my source is aware of, but the maintenance bay may move to accommodate BBTM
It would really help to get the details from the BBTM permit that was filed weeks ago.

I don't buy 3 years unless it's tied into BBTM long-term plans, which is possible. I'm still skeptical overall, but it doesn't mean you're information is bad.
 

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