TheRabbit
Well-Known Member
Congo River Golf just got a whole lot more business
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Big reduction on Annual Passholder discounts at Walt Disney World mini-golf courses and boat rentals
- Thread starter wdwmagic
- Start date
NearTheEars
Well-Known Member
We never used either of these discounts, but it is upsetting that this trend continues. My biggest fear would be losing the renewal discount.
AMartin767
Active Member
While it is true that Disney will, in most cases, make more profit total from regular guests, the point that should not be missed is that Annual Passholders will visit the parks more often in an year. They are spending less per visit which is EXACTLY why you want to offer incentives to Passholders while visiting to encourage them to spend the difference in residuals. Disney provides these small incentives as loss-leaders to collecting more in residuals from them. For example, if I am offered a discount to Winter-Summerland, I am likely to purchase foods and/or drinks and possibly some sort of souvenir while there. Disney makes a larger profit margin on these items than they do on the ticket to play. Also, it's quite likely that I am not going to go alone, in fact, if i'm a passholder, i'm likely to be a local. This means I might be not only bringing another passholder (more residual profits) or even a friend or family member who isn't a passholder (full profit on tickets and food/souvenirs.
If I am local, (likely a passholder), then attractions like the mini-golf are more familiar for me (ie. I'm more likely to take them for granted) therefore, I have less incentive to go. If I have no incentive to go at all, or very little, then I don't go, I don't bring anyone with me and now Disney has lost ALL profit opportunity.
That is why Disney should not cut down or out these small incentives to passholders.
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sjhym333
Well-Known Member
While I understand what you're saying I think the premise is a little off. It is not that Disney said: here is your discount tickets and then on occasion we are going to throw some extra stuff in too. Annual Passes are sold by Disney with a clear group of inclusions when you buy that include: park admission, parking (on some), a certain group of discounts and such. Disney over the past several years has decreased the things that they include in an annual pass. And in the case of many of us has changed the terms of agreement mid-year in our one year agreement. For some that diminishes it's value. Some AP holders buy into the whole package, not just the park admission. At the end of the day each of us determines if and what the value is in purchasing an AP.
One last thought. Yes AP holders do get a nice discount in terms of admission (though some would argue that an AP is an major expense), but when my AP expires and since I am not renewing, the chances of me buying a single or multi-day ticket is nil. So in the end Disney will not only not get my AP renewal money but will also not get any money that I spend in the parks or at other experiences on property.
note2001
Well-Known Member
What perk are you referring to that anyone would buy an AP for over an ordinary pass? If it's for savings on a room (that in my opinion they offer too late for planning) I might agree with you, but then we come to my point where that perk was used instantly to recover the costs ( AP savings on room + ordinary pass price > cost of the AP, good use providing the same could not be found through other discounts.)
Other than instant savings, I don't understand why anyone would look at an AP purchase from any other angle than saving money on admission per visit. That's the concept of an annual pass. Over the years I've used the discount perk, knowing that if they chose to take it away all together I'm still saving money over what I would have spent buying separate passes for each of our visits.
sjhym333
Well-Known Member
You really don't need to understand. People buy AP's for many different reason. You may not care about the extra's that an AP offers but others do.
AMartin767
Active Member
^^^ This is a perfect example of the point I made in my post above.
ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
^^^ THIS ^^^
The AP is a PACKAGE which includes discounts and admission for an up front fee, Once again the old TDO bait-n-switch. Disney is free to change terms - If they had changed terms for new purchases and renewals I'd have a hard time getting excited about this. By doing this they sucked much of the value out of the AP for those of us who renew mid-year.
I personally used the boat rental, The mini-golf was nice but there are better courses locally and they are 6-8 bucks but with the cuts I will be using neither. Disney's boat rental is EXPENSIVE and with the discount it was barely worth it - without well family has a bunch of boats on a local lake so I don't need to pay Disney to mess around in boats I just will not be doing it at Disney.
I'm equally sure someone ran the numbers and found for their BU they would have a small but measurable increase in the bottom line if they cut the discounts for the AP holders, This is a knock on effect of running WDW as a group of competing fiefdoms rather than a 'resort' as the activities become more and more expensive fewer and fewer people take advantange of the activities.
With all the price increases the Marina's are pretty much dead these days because price has exceeded perceived value for most guests not ALL of course but most and I think if you asked the average guest what the boats were for they will say for 'Rich People'.
Years ago I used to need to increase my 'Resort Limit' for room charges, with the reduction in quality and variety in the offerings for a 10 day trip DW and I are spending $600-800 max. largely because there are few things WE WANT to buy.
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raven
Well-Known Member
Going round & round with my roomate on this issue. He just completed training for his new role in DVC sales and has obviously been "Drinking the Kool Aide."
Didn't Disney build the mini-golf, additional shopping areas, bowling alley, sports complex and other on-site additions to keep their guests on property? Orlando area has built up so much and was pulling Disney guests away and Disney responded by building more things for their guests to do.
The lack of people using the water craft and mini-golf in the past several years has proven that they fail to produce what they planned. Now this?
So here is what I am seeing. Disney has an increasing problem with guest capacities in the parks. They are expanding the hub area, making an alternative route around Main Street, increase prices to ward off guests in a certain income bracket, rework the FP system so you are only allowed a certain number of them per day (plus limit what attractions you can do), etc. cutting discounts at the recreational facilities only puts people back IN the parks and the capacity goes up. That's a fail if you ask me.
Also, there are countless mini-golf places on I-Drive and 192 that are WAY better than the Disney ones. And with Groupon you can practically go to them for a few dollars.
My point is, why all of this change in the past few years? To potential guests worldwide it looks like America's Top Greedy Corporation.
Didn't Disney build the mini-golf, additional shopping areas, bowling alley, sports complex and other on-site additions to keep their guests on property? Orlando area has built up so much and was pulling Disney guests away and Disney responded by building more things for their guests to do.
The lack of people using the water craft and mini-golf in the past several years has proven that they fail to produce what they planned. Now this?
So here is what I am seeing. Disney has an increasing problem with guest capacities in the parks. They are expanding the hub area, making an alternative route around Main Street, increase prices to ward off guests in a certain income bracket, rework the FP system so you are only allowed a certain number of them per day (plus limit what attractions you can do), etc. cutting discounts at the recreational facilities only puts people back IN the parks and the capacity goes up. That's a fail if you ask me.
Also, there are countless mini-golf places on I-Drive and 192 that are WAY better than the Disney ones. And with Groupon you can practically go to them for a few dollars.
My point is, why all of this change in the past few years? To potential guests worldwide it looks like America's Top Greedy Corporation.
ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
In short - to show Wall St - that the parks are more 'successful' than ever, I'd love to see a few analysts visit WDW unannounced and experience the parks as they are with no VIP guides etc talk to the average guest and CM, I think they would have a much different perspective on the P&R BU at TWDC than they have from the glossy preso's
sjhym333
Well-Known Member
That is an easy answer I think. My guess is that departments are asked for ways to increase their profitability as a business unit and the most recent AP discounts were easy decisions. In the long ago past there were people who looked out for the parks in the big picture sense. That is no longer the case. Now each area is it's own business unit and has to produce both in savings and increasing spending. That is true for every food, merchandise and even attraction area. It is all about maximizing profit. And since WDW is not hurting for guests who want to spend money on their product, they feel that is ok to diminish the AP packages they sell. My guess is if business was to take a dramatic turn for some reason (we have seen this before) Disney would be singing a different tune when it comes to passholders.
ChrisFL
Premium Member
I like Fantasia mini-golf a lot more than Winter/Summer Land, though the "pro" course (I think that's what it is called) is very difficult!
backinaction
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't hold your breathe on that one. When was the last time attendance at disneyworld went down? 9/11?
betty rose
Well-Known Member
Agree
hth1917
Well-Known Member
Universal APs do get discounts at Hollywood Drive-in Golf (10% Preferred, 15% Premier).
note2001
Well-Known Member
So another site leaked that normal pass prices are going up by a small amount by mid-February and they're discontinuing non-expiring passes. I'm curious what will happen with the AP prices. (I had been weighing out buying an AP now verses waiting and upgrading a 5d PH at the gate on the next trip.)
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ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
A price increase in Feb there's a real surprise, Earnings season is soon to be upon us
note2001
Well-Known Member
My issue with those prices going up right now is 3 out of 4 parks are under heavy construction, and that fourth had cuts to entertainment, innovations and rides. With gas prices dropping it would seem the prices of everything else should drop too. Silly me for trying to think logically again.
ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
Yes we are indeed very silly for expecting logic to work in the land of the mouse who is experiencing a transformation into a RAT.
note2001
Well-Known Member
I'm not so sure Mickey was ever a Mouse. He's bigger than Pluto
Rats are usually friendlier and smarter than mice though.