News Big changes coming to EPCOT's Future World?

bcoachable

bcoachable

Well-Known Member
MisterPenguin said:
They've been squeezing more money per person continuously for a while now. This is how they have higher revenue than ever before. And by capping the capacity at parks, they're staffing only as much as they need, keeping costs down.

They don't want "volume, volume, volume!" That just makes the parks supper-packed and lowers GSAT and hurts the brand. A packed park means people can't ride rides, can't pay premium at TSRs, and can't fit into a store to buy merch, not that they'd feel the love to do so with the unpleasant experience of an overcrowded park.

The "brand" makes Disney a premium experience (even if some other theme park is offering better service and a better experience [and no, that is *not* Uni, from personal experience]). And people are paying more. And they pay even more when there's less people crowding them. That leads to bigger net profits.

Yes, the 50th is a bust. But it's not stopping WDW from hitting full parks goals.
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I agree with all of this.
What I don't get is if "X" number of people are making you "Y" amount of dollars, why don't you figure out a way to fit "X(5)" people in, thus helping you to make more "Y".
This seems like a great way to win with the board and stock holders as well as win with the fans/guests...
 
MrPromey

MrPromey

Well-Known Member
kalel8145 said:
That's fine. I get people are frustrated and that you and many others here on these forums are quitting Disney or cutting back on Disney. Thats cool. Maybe Disney will take notice. Maybe it will help facilitate the changes you and others are looking for. My only point is that the majority do not look at Disney as critically as we do here. I wager the majority that continue to go probably have no or very a very vague idea who Bobby C even is. They don't pay attention to their political views or see bulbs out in the parks or know the path of Cosmic Rewind track by heart without even been on the ride. They continue to go. We can talk about the park reservations being full is really Disney hiding numbers, or that the resorts being highly occupied is Disney hiding numbers. The fact is that people continue to go, new and old fans alike. And Disney is still raking it in. They will not lose their fans. Even with inflation and soaring prices, people will find a way to go.
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To be clear, my not going isn't a protest. It's me thinking the rising prices to experience 30+ year old attractions that they're unevenly mantaining (why does so much of the old stuff feel like it's on perpetual life-support when compared to the often older but better kept DL verisouns of the same things?) and having to fight tooth and nail or pay up-charges to get on things built within the last decade aren't worth it.

At the same time, I do hope they change. I would like to go back and I would like to take my son. I have tons of memories I would like him to have but not of the place the way it is today.

It doesn't have to get cheaper but if they're going to do what they're doing with prices and up-charges I expect them to deliver on the experiences. I mean Rise may be a great addition to Hollywood Studios but how much does it justify the cost to get into that park when you don't get to ride it and if you do, there is a better than 50% chance you had to pay extra just to ride it if you were lucky enough to snag one of those ILLs?

It's about more money spent and getting increasingly less in return for it and this not being an industry trend as much as a Disney one since the rest of the parks in central Florida (Universal, Sea World, LegoLand, Busch Gardens) don't seem to be having these same "problems".

And while totally anecdotal, people I know who aren't as interested and aren't as critical are having even worse experiences. They show up not even knowing what the "good" stuff is and spend their day either waiting in lines or only going to what they can find with short waits and they come back talking about how much of a rip-off it is because they either spend most of the day waiting or doing literally the worst stuff in the parks due to lack of the serous planning they didn't know they needed to do. They complain about the prices and quality of quick-service. They didn't realize they needed to make reservations for the sit-down restaurants months in advance so they have no opinions on what those places are like.

Again, totally anecdotal and I don't claim the small sample size of people I know who aren't loyal long-term fans are representative of the masses but they've been less impressed than I've been because they really don't even seem to take that much notice of effort like atmosphere and trees and flowers. They just walk into Epcot and see constructions walls and an hour or more wait for the rides and say why did we pay $500 to get in here today?

Either way though, you can't argue out of one side about customer loyalty holding them through and then out of the other that it doesn't matter because customers who don't know about stuff and aren't focused enough to notice the doward trend in things will still go.

Remember, this whole discussion between us came from you dismissing people's concerns over quality, service and value not being what it used to be with a gif. I never said this was the end for Disney - just that taking that kind of attitude was going to alienate some of their most valuable customers... Like, DVC members who can't get annual passes anymore. 🤷‍♂️
 
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K

kalel8145

Well-Known Member
MrPromey said:
To be clear, my not going isn't a protest. It's me thinking the rising prices to experience 40 year old attractions and having to fight tooth and nail or pay up-charges to get on things built within the last decade aren't worth it.

It's about more money spent and getting increasingly less in return for it and this not being an industry trend as much as a Disney one since the rest of the parks in central Florida (Universal, Sea World, Lego Land, Busch Gardens) don't seem to be having these same "problems".

And while totally anecdotal, people I know who aren't as interested and aren't as critical are having even worse experiences. They show up not even knowing what the "good" stuff is and spend their day either waiting in lines or only going to what they can find with short waits and they come back talking about how much of a rip-off it is because they either spend most of the day waiting or doing literally the worst stuff in the parks instead due to lack of the serous planning they didn't know they needed to do. They complain about the prices and quality of quick-service. They didn't realize they needed to make reservations for the sit-down restaurants months in advance so they have no opinions on what those places are like.

Again, totally anecdotal and I don't claim the small sample size of people I know who aren't loyal long-term fans are representative of the masses overall but they've been less impressed than I've been because they really don't even seem to take that much notice of effort like atmosphere and trees and flowers. They just walk into Epcot and see constructions walls and an hour or more wait for the rides and say why did we pay $500 to get in here today?
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Like I said, that's totally cool. Its to the point that its not worth it to you. Disney is no longer doing what it takes, in your eyes, to justify spending money on a trip there. 100% get it and have no issue with it. Hopefully one day they will do what it takes so you can get the magic back.
My only point in all of this, is that I don't believe that is the majority of park goers, 1st timers, several timers, or regulars that feel this way. I am sure there are others outside this board that feel as you.
I have been 3 times in the last 2 years. What I see and hear tells me Disney is not losing fans. They are keeping us old ones, and gaining new ones. I don't have numbers to prove anything, or articles to reference. Only my real world observations.
 
MrPromey

MrPromey

Well-Known Member
Sirwalterraleigh said:
Correct…but they also don’t go nearly as much.

The idea that both wdw and even more so Disneyland isn’t filled every day with frequent visitors is the biggest myth/falacy of the BOBS era…

Of course it is. It’s not 90% rookies in there…never has…never will be. Disney knows who’s there. They have management with no long term attachment saying they can’t stop beating people away to Wall Street (how’s that been working?)…

But they can claim it won’t change even when they’re eroding it. Nothing “illegal” about that and they don’t care about the Longterm. Sell the shares and walk away.
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Again, most of the people who I know who haven't been repeat guests over the years have been grossly disappointed with thier experiences when going, largely because they have less appreciation for "classic" attractions they have no warm fuzzies for (which is most of what's in WDW these days). They see Pirates of the Carabean as being sort of neat and also sort of hokey with janky moving maniquens and want to know why they all can't move the way those Jack Sparrow ones do. They don't care so much about theme or landscaping or the color swatches Zack shows off in his Instagram posts.

Ironically, these are the people who have no problem with Cosmic Rewind's location but are ed just the same when they get to the park and realize they stand zero chance of getting on it unless they buy an ILL or commit to a big portion of their day being a wait for an under four minute experience.*

These are the same people who don't like Animal Kingdom because they don't think there's enough to do because they don't count the environment or the trails as anything worth spending time exploring.

Six Flags, Kennywood, Cedar Point, Bush Gardens and other places like them are their frames of reference and they come to WDW having heard it's the gold standard and feel otherwise once they get inside and see how much space there is with so little to do (in their view) compared to the parks they're accustomed to.

That's not a stance I personally agree with (completely) but I'm one of those long-term loyal customers they're currently losing on the other end of the spectrum.

*this is assumption on my part for how this will work based on the way everything else that has rolled out since FOP has gone. Maybe the uptime and the riders per hour will actually make this easy to get on. 😏
 
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MrPromey

MrPromey

Well-Known Member
kalel8145 said:
Like I said, that's totally cool. Its to the point that its not worth it to you. Disney is no longer doing what it takes, in your eyes, to justify spending money on a trip there. 100% get it and have no issue with it. Hopefully one day they will do what it takes so you can get the magic back.
My only point in all of this, is that I don't believe that is the majority of park goers, 1st timers, several timers, or regulars that feel this way. I am sure there are others outside this board that feel as you.
I have been 3 times in the last 2 years. What I see and hear tells me Disney is not losing fans. They are keeping us old ones, and gaining new ones. I don't have numbers to prove anything, or articles to reference. Only my real world observations.
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I don't believe it's the majority, either.

What I wonder (and don't have an answer to) is at what point does it become a problem for them? When they lose 5%? 10%? 30?

I don't even know how to begin to quantify that since one person willing to pay top dollar for the best experience is more valuable than a family of four going on the cheap so even within those percentages, all customers are not created equal.
 
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lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Rich Brownn said:
Actually, he didn't. He had a rough idea which proved impractical after he died.
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An idea that had been first developed 60 years prior and had seen developments patterned after. You can still go to Radburn, NJ to this day. You can see apartment complexes where the complex owns and changes the appliances as they desire all over the country.
 

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