News Big changes coming to EPCOT's Future World?

[GladToBeHear]

Don't know about the majority. But, we'll be visiting Florida in September with no visit to WDW. I don't think we've been to Fla without visiting the Mouse for over a quarter century. We're quitting cold-turkey. We've skipped the last few releases from Disney and Pixar (kids saw the last two MCU movies though). Between the price hikes, destruction of epcot, and the culture wars, we're done -- at least for a while. I hope they change direction. But, I have my doubts.

Same. We cancelled our first WDW trip this past February for the first time in about 15-20 years. We're done for a while.

 

[MrPromey]

Not sure it would be that big of a chunk.

Depends on if we're just talking about Epcot or the resorts/company in general these days.

They've been burning through a lot of good-will these past few years from a lot of different groups across the spectrum in a lot of different directions.

 

[MrPromey]

There is never a guarantee on anything. My opinion is that it does continue as the "older generation" takes their kids and so on and so on.

Except when we quit taking them.

Case in point - we're getting APs for Universal this Friday with no plans to go back to Disney on the horizon unless their trajectory changes (so not for a good while, at least and by trajectory, for me, I'm not talking about politics). My son went to Disney multiple times a year for the first seven years of his life but even that last couple years before COVID, we were seriously* starting to sour on the experience. The way things are headed, he's not going to have any built-in loyalty for the brand the way I did growing up which is why I started taking him as soon as we felt it was safe to for his first pictures with Mickey, etc.


*by "seriously" I mean, having conversations about cutting back - not just me coming onto a site like this and griping about stuff. Now though, we've cut it off, completely, with a wait-and-see attitude towards the future.

 

[britain]

While I appreciate the attempt, that turns it into literally EVERYTHING. There is nothing that wouldn't fit into one of those categories.

The best they could do is make World Showcase a showcase of countries that inspired favorite Disney characters, and put an attraction in each. And, since GotG can't really be saved, convert World Discovery into a showcase of how technology helps us explore new worlds - real and imagined. (Which is still a big stretch).

This blur of fantasy and reality in the way they are doing it simply doesn't work because it blends multiple stories and focuses on different things. It's the same fate as TL, Stuidos, etc. So, it ends up requiring HUGE amounts of shoehorning. Made even worse - since Epcot had arguably the most cohesive theme of all the Parks (other than maybe DAK and original DHS).

This assumes that “Most Cohesive Theme” is the most important achievement a theme park can aim for. What about “Most Flexible Theme”?

Throughout years of online debate regarding whether or not a park is being true to its mission statement / theme, one thing seems to always be sidestepped:

Disneyland is a catch all. By design!

It was a sandbox for Walt to do whatever the heck he wanted. Full stop. It’s Disney’s Land, and we get to visit.

Now, like a child who doesn’t want his peas to touch his carrots, Walt wanted things organized and richly textured without the narratives mangling each other. But Disneyland could accommodate any addition as long as it was upbeat and high quality.

Unpopular Opinion: Walt would be very happy with the recent changes made to EPCOT. (He’d also be very disinterested since he’d prefer to be city planning, but it would not rub him the wrong way since its objective has become more or less the same as his Disneyland’s.)

He’d be annoyed with the alcohol everywhere, and I’m sure he’d want to theme the Cosmic Rewind building, but that’s about it.

 

[kalel8145]

Except when we quit taking them.

Case in point - we're getting APs for Universal this Friday with no plans to go back to Disney on the horizon unless their trajectory changes (so not for a good while, at least and by trajectory, for me, I'm not talking about politics). My son went to Disney multiple times a year for the first seven years of his life but even that last couple years before COVID, we were seriously* starting to sour on the experience. The way things are headed, he's not going to have any built-in loyalty for the brand the way I did growing up which is why I started taking him as soon as we felt it was safe to for his first pictures with Mickey, etc.


*by "seriously" I mean, having conversations about cutting back - not just me coming onto a site like this and griping about stuff. Now though, we've cut it off, completely with a wait-and-see attitude towards the future.

That's fine. I get people are frustrated and that you and many others here on these forums are quitting Disney or cutting back on Disney. Thats cool. Maybe Disney will take notice. Maybe it will help facilitate the changes you and others are looking for. My only point is that the majority do not look at Disney as critically as we do here. I wager the majority that continue to go probably have no or very a very vague idea who Bobby C even is. They don't pay attention to their political views or see bulbs out in the parks or know the path of Cosmic Rewind track by heart without even been on the ride. They continue to go. We can talk about the park reservations being full is really Disney hiding numbers, or that the resorts being highly occupied is Disney hiding numbers. The fact is that people continue to go, new and old fans alike. And Disney is still raking it in. They will not lose their fans. Even with inflation and soaring prices, people will find a way to go.

 

[montyz81]

used to be here:
View attachment 637860

I put a star where it was on this concept map and an arrow to the new location:
View attachment 637859

That is not what I was talking about. I was talking about this:

 

[montyz81]

This assumes that “Most Cohesive Theme” is the most important achievement a theme park can aim for. What about “Most Flexible Theme”?

Throughout years of online debate regarding whether or not a park is being true to its mission statement / theme, one thing seems to always be sidestepped:

Disneyland is a catch all. By design!

It was a sandbox for Walt to do whatever the heck he wanted. Full stop. It’s Disney’s Land, and we get to visit.

Now, like a child who doesn’t want his peas to touch his carrots, Walt wanted things organized and richly textured without the narratives mangling each other. But Disneyland could accommodate any addition as long as it was upbeat and high quality.

Unpopular Opinion: Walt would be very happy with the recent changes made to EPCOT. (He’d also be very disinterested since he’d prefer to be city planning, but it would not rub him the wrong way since its objective has become more or less the same as his Disneyland’s.)

He’d be annoyed with the alcohol everywhere, and I’m sure he’d want to theme the Cosmic Rewind building, but that’s about it.

If Walt were still alive the only park in Florida would be the magic kingdom. Period.

 

[G00fyDad]

If Walt were still alive the only park in Florida would be the magic kingdom. Period.

Because he had no designs for something called EPCOT right?

 

[britain]

If Walt were still alive the only park in Florida would be the magic kingdom. Period.

Sure. He’d also be saying “let me out of here!”

 

[P_Radden]

That is not what I was talking about. I was talking about this: View attachment 637965

Oh, that's not the "center of wdw property". The big original Epcot Center logo I referenced is. This element is a really cool timeline display of the major human achievements. Sadly, will probably be removed with the changes. Someone correct me if I'm wrong- I wish this would remain.

 

[WDWFREAK53]

Because he had no designs for something called EPCOT right?

Sure he did...but it wasn't a theme park.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

That's fine. I get people are frustrated and that you and many others here on these forums are quitting Disney or cutting back on Disney. Thats cool. Maybe Disney will take notice. Maybe it will help facilitate the changes you and others are looking for. My only point is that the majority do not look at Disney as critically as we do here. I wager the majority that continue to go probably have no or very a very vague idea who Bobby C even is. They don't pay attention to their political views or see bulbs out in the parks or know the path of Cosmic Rewind track by heart without even been on the ride. They continue to go. We can talk about the park reservations being full is really Disney hiding numbers, or that the resorts being highly occupied is Disney hiding numbers. The fact is that people continue to go, new and old fans alike. And Disney is still raking it in. They will not lose their fans. Even with inflation and soaring prices, people will find a way to go.

Correct…but they also don’t go nearly as much.

The idea that both wdw and even more so Disneyland isn’t filled every day with frequent visitors is the biggest myth/falacy of the BOBS era…

Of course it is. It’s not 90% rookies in there…never has…never will be. Disney knows who’s there. They have management with no long term attachment saying they can’t stop beating people away to Wall Street (how’s that been working?)…

But they can claim it won’t change even when they’re eroding it. Nothing “illegal” about that and they don’t care about the Longterm. Sell the shares and walk away.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Sure he did...but it wasn't a theme park.

Good thing that never happened…what a disaster

 

[kalel8145]

Correct…but they also don’t go nearly as much.

The idea that both wdw and even more so Disneyland isn’t filled every day with frequent visitors is the biggest myth/falacy of the BOBS era…

Of course it is. It’s not 90% rookies in there…never has…never will be. Disney knows who’s there. They have management with no long term attachment saying they can’t stop beating people away to Wall Street (how’s that been working?)…

But they can claim it won’t change even when they’re eroding it. Nothing “illegal” about that and they don’t care about the Longterm. Sell the shares and walk away.

Well I think they do.
The rest of this is exactly what I am saying the majority don't even pay attention to.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Well I think they do.
The rest of this is exactly what I am saying the majority don't even pay attention to.

But I worked for Disney and had access to the figures - admittedly long ago - it’s not an “opinion”. Take that with a huge grain of salt.

It’s not all “casual” one timers. Tough to whack people what is easy $10,000 a week for that kinda non-chalant. Which means the product/ROI is going to matter more and more. Even if the consumers are increasingly dumb.

 

[kalel8145]

But I worked for Disney and had access to the figures - admittedly long ago - it’s not an “opinion”. Take that with a huge grain of salt.

It’s not all “casual” one timers. Tough to whack people what is easy $10,000 a week for that kinda non-chalant. Which means the product/ROI is going to matter more and more. Even if the consumers are increasingly dumb.

I'm not discounting what you are saying and I'm not saying its all one timers. That is exactly my point. The majority of people that keep going back aren't even paying attention to the things you're talking about. They don't look at ROI, they don't look at the stock price. None of that factors into it for them. They go back because they enjoy it and the money spend is worth it to them for the vacation. They are not digging into this stuff like this forum does.
And I think at this point we are talking about different things anyway.

 

[Incomudro]

I'm not discounting what you are saying and I'm not saying its all one timers. That is exactly my point. The majority of people that keep going back aren't even paying attention to the things you're talking about. They don't look at ROI, they don't look at the stock price. None of that factors into it for them. They go back because they enjoy it and the money spend is worth it to them for the vacation. They are not digging into this stuff like this forum does.
And I think at this point we are talking about different things anyway.

And they certainly don't look at how much it cost to construct a ride.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I'm not discounting what you are saying and I'm not saying its all one timers. That is exactly my point. The majority of people that keep going back aren't even paying attention to the things you're talking about. They don't look at ROI, they don't look at the stock price. None of that factors into it for them. They go back because they enjoy it and the money spend is worth it to them for the vacation. They are not digging into this stuff like this forum does.
And I think at this point we are talking about different things anyway.

Actually that puts Disney in a more precarious position.

We analyze all the minutia…but temper that with an ingrained loyalty.

The casual doesn’t do that. Very true.

But they are far more likely to say it’s a ripoff or it “didn’t feel right”

Casual is a double edged sword. You can benefit from their aloofness and suffer from their detachment

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

And they certainly don't look at how much it cost to construct a ride.

True…but what Disney classifies as an “infrequent” visitor can go twice in 4 or 5 years, see the same construction walls up, not ride anything and mention the cost went up by 25%+ between the two visits

 

[GimpYancIent]

Because he had no designs for something called EPCOT right?

Not as an amusement park. The announced concept was for EPCOT to be an actual functioning community / a city.