News Big changes coming to EPCOT's Future World?

[Mike S]

Soarin, Test Track and Mission Space are problematic precisely because they're height restricted. But remember, they are all second-generation EPCOT attractions. World of Motion and Horizons were totally family and kid-friendly, attractions which entertained and inspired. The last two things EPCOT needs are: 1) Attractions exclusively designed to appeal to "little kids" and 2) Attractions that are too intense for little kids.

The original EPCOT had family-friendly rides and experiences everyone could enjoy. Modern day Epcot is such a mess in large part because DisCo started designing and building experiences for specific demographics (hip and edgy! for the little ones! princesses!) which as others have said is pretty much the exact opposite of Walt Disney's vision for a place parents and kids could enjoy together.

It wasn't all bad. The "edgy" WDI of the 90's did give us IJA and WDW's ToT, two of the best themed rides ever created anywhere

Just for the record I've adored SSE for as long as I can remember. The Jeremy Irons version was my Horizons

 

[Virtual Toad]

Loved the Irons version of SSE as well (especially the music which can be heard quite often here at VirtualToadHQ). EPCOT in its heyday somehow managed to balance a serious message with just the right amount of whimsy and was refreshingly irony-free.

Someone commented about how kids today don't like Epcot. Perhaps if the park still had a cohesive theme and message it would connect more effectively with guests of all ages, including kids. I can totally understand kids being confused by Epcot and thinking, "what's the point of all this?"

As far as turning EPCOT into Ipcot, it's kind of like taking all of your favorite meals and putting them into a blender. The end result is hardly appetizing and it would be nearly impossible to figure out exactly what it is you're eating. Post-post-modern Epcot (and all of WDW for that matter) is starting to feel a lot like that to me. A resort that used to serve up a variety of sophisticated, carefully planned, and incredibly satisfying individual "dishes" has been reduced to a confusingly bland and blended-together mix of Disney IP-- because Disney IP is all they want you to consume, regardless of taste.

 

[TeriofTerror]

Which is a bold statement considering he's the guy who greenlit The Monkey's Uncle.

Hey! I won our eighth grade science fair on my experiment involving sleep learning, based on this film - even though my experiment failed. I think that was the moment I knew I should pursue a career in sales...

 

[TXDisney]

You guys are missing my point. Just bc your kids like Epcot doesn't mean most kids like Epcot. My wife and I will completely raise our kids to love all the parks and find the fun in everything there as much as we can. But generally speaking kids do not like Epcot. And mainly bc the rides aren't rides kids like until they get a tad older and going around WS bores them. I'm not guessing this, I've been to Epcot with tons of family with kids and even if you try and make it fun, they just don't like it like the other parks. This all might be part of what WDW likes to have, have a park more adult and teenage based, which is ok. Epcot is my favorite park. But if they are trying to attract a younger market, they need kid rides.

 

[Matt_Black]

I'm sincerely not trying to insinuate anything about the children in your family, but again, I think the mentality that kids are bored at Epcot says more about the state of children than it does Epcot (even though I do think Epcot needs massive change).

Well, my grandmother thought EPCOT Center was boring back in '84, so there's that, too.

 

[wdisney9000]

You guys are missing my point. Just bc your kids like Epcot doesn't mean most kids like Epcot. My wife and I will completely raise our kids to love all the parks and find the fun in everything there as much as we can. But generally speaking kids do not like Epcot. And mainly bc the rides aren't rides kids like until they get a tad older and going around WS bores them. I'm not guessing this, I've been to Epcot with tons of family with kids and even if you try and make it fun, they just don't like it like the other parks. This all might be part of what WDW likes to have, have a park more adult and teenage based, which is ok. Epcot is my favorite park. But if they are trying to attract a younger market, they need kid rides.

So your saying it's possible for you and your wife to raise your children to appreciate all the parks (Epcot included), yet other parents are failing to do so?

 

[FigmentForver96]

You guys are missing my point. Just bc your kids like Epcot doesn't mean most kids like Epcot. My wife and I will completely raise our kids to love all the parks and find the fun in everything there as much as we can. But generally speaking kids do not like Epcot. And mainly bc the rides aren't rides kids like until they get a tad older and going around WS bores them. I'm not guessing this, I've been to Epcot with tons of family with kids and even if you try and make it fun, they just don't like it like the other parks. This all might be part of what WDW likes to have, have a park more adult and teenage based, which is ok. Epcot is my favorite park. But if they are trying to attract a younger market, they need kid rides.

You do realize many of the devout EPCOT Center fans are those who were kids. EPCOT Center was PACKED in its hey day and it wasn't soely from adults.

 

[RSoxNo1]

More the case of them realizing what a disaster they've let WDW slowly become. Unfortunately, how out of touch they feel the parks are compared to their recent film successes. Finally, higher ups acknowledging the stagnation before it turns into a Paris situation.

Staggs was also useless and couldn't get anything of merit approved to save his life.

A lot of recent shake ups with Management on both the suit and WDI side - now we are seeing the result. For better or worse.

The 50th is just an excuse to get things in motion that should have been dealt with 5-10-15 years ago.

Except Mine Train replacing the Cinderella and Aurora cardboard cut out adventures.

 

[Mike S]

Except Mine Train replacing the Cinderella and Aurora cardboard cut out adventures.

Not without getting cut a bit itself.

 

[Goofyernmost]

So your saying it's possible for you and your wife to raise your children to appreciate all the parks (Epcot included), yet other parents are failing to do so?

I don't really think that working to have your kids appreciate WDW is at the top of must do parental duties, so moot point. Dr. Spock never covered it at all in his child raising books. It would rank right up there with make sure that they develop a taste for Scotch Whiskey. Not a priority.

 

[marni1971]

But if they are trying to attract a younger market, they need kid rides.

If that's the case then sadly they're trying too hard. Epcot was always a more... discerning park. Now it's drifting towards Fantasyland 2.0.

Which of course is seen as a way to maximise profit.

God help us if we were to get Buzz Lightyear or similar in SSE.

(Which isn't a rumour nor planned so far as I know before someone runs with it)

 

[hpyhnt 1000]

As far as turning EPCOT into Ipcot, it's kind of like taking all of your favorite meals and putting them into a blender. The end result is hardly appetizing and it would be nearly impossible to figure out exactly what it is you're eating. Post-post-modern Epcot (and all of WDW for that matter) is starting to feel a lot like that to me. A resort that used to serve up a variety of sophisticated, carefully planned, and incredibly satisfying individual "dishes" has been reduced to a confusingly bland and blended-together mix of Disney IP-- because Disney IP is all they want you to consume, regardless of taste.

Exactly this. When people harp about "old school" Disney and the "Disney Difference," we're talking first and foremost about QUALITY across every facet of the guest experience, from the theme to the ambiance to the service. It was never only about the characters or theme parks rides; it was about the complete resort package, a level of service and care above and beyond. And it wasn't inflated to ridiculous price points either - it was 5 star treatment at a 3 star price.

As a kid, I remember visiting back in the late 90s and riding the Irons' version of SSE and Living with the Land. I remember seeing Tapestry of Nations and RoE and loving all of it. I remember the first time we took a Friendship boat from International Gateway and saw the Boardwalk resort area and being amazed that all of this was sitting just behind the trees of Epcot. THAT to me was what made Disney Disney. Everywhere you turned there was something that mesmerized you and made you smile, but also caught you off-guard. It was the sum total of every experience adding up to make you go "whoa."

Nowadays the Disney Difference has become more synonymous with Hidden Mickeys every 5 feet and upcharge events that give a veneer of VIP treatment while really just price gouging you for cupcakes. It's the feeling of a resort that has rested on its laurels, now striving for "good enough" rather than the best it could be.

 

[montyz81]

You do realize many of the devout EPCOT Center fans are those who were kids. EPCOT Center was PACKED in its hey day and it wasn't soely from adults.

It is a different generation now. Kids are too busy to look up from their devices.
That said, I was 12 years old when I went in 1983. I remember just about ever part of my time in Epcot Center from that trip. I don't remember anything else well save for Water Country.

 

[Virtual Toad]

It is a different generation now. Kids are too busy to look up from their devices.
That said, I was 12 years old when I went in 1983. I remember just about ever part of my time in Epcot Center from that trip. I don't remember anything else well save for Water Country.

Kids are only staring down at their devices if their parents let them IMHO. Seems pretty pointless to spend $$$$ on a family vacation where all the kids are doing is spending time on their phones. And yes River Country was amazing back in the day.

 

[Goofyernmost]

You do realize many of the devout EPCOT Center fans are those who were kids. EPCOT Center was PACKED in its hey day and it wasn't soely from adults.

Of course, there is always the factor that the kids HAD to go where their parents went. Back in the day we didn't let the kids run our lives 100% of the time. If I wanted to go to Epcot, my kids had to go along. Lord knows I spent enough time dealing with stuff for them that I found tedious, so it was their turn. In the process if they liked what they saw that was a plus, but, not a requirement. The tail currently wags the dog.

 

[RoysCabin]

Loved the Irons version of SSE as well (especially the music which can be heard quite often here at VirtualToadHQ). EPCOT in its heyday somehow managed to balance a serious message with just the right amount of whimsy and was refreshingly irony-free.

Someone commented about how kids today don't like Epcot. Perhaps if the park still had a cohesive theme and message it would connect more effectively with guests of all ages, including kids. I can totally understand kids being confused by Epcot and thinking, "what's the point of all this?"

As far as turning EPCOT into Ipcot, it's kind of like taking all of your favorite meals and putting them into a blender. The end result is hardly appetizing and it would be nearly impossible to figure out exactly what it is you're eating. Post-post-modern Epcot (and all of WDW for that matter) is starting to feel a lot like that to me. A resort that used to serve up a variety of sophisticated, carefully planned, and incredibly satisfying individual "dishes" has been reduced to a confusingly bland and blended-together mix of Disney IP-- because Disney IP is all they want you to consume, regardless of taste.

This is an important point, I think, and touches on an issue that I think sometimes folks like us on this board accidentally talk past one another about as we dive into the more complex reasons why many of us enjoy or don't enjoy a given change in the parks.

A big problem with theme park homogenization is that it risks making your appeal a lot more narrow, which can be ironic given that Disney has acquired so many properties over the past decade-plus in what could only be looked at as a way to broaden its appeal. However, when we wind up with this "IP-blend" drink instead of more carefully developed dishes, it can be tough for some people to get as invested in the theme park experience, as one's enjoyment level might now be directly impacted not only by one's familiarity level with a given film or property, but also one's willingness to be surrounded by those films or properties on a consistent basis. I'm sure all of us can find something to enjoy in the IP-mix (e.g. I was a Star Wars fan as a kid and can still quote much of the original trilogy, stuff like that), but there's going to be many common threads with regards to how those IPs are presented to us in the theme parks, and there's likely a point for many, though certainly not all, people when they say "I'd like to do something besides meeting Mickey/Jack Sparrow/Elsa/Darth Vader (either in a ride or meet and greet) now."

What happens when those other options begin to go away? When you can't visit a pavilion themed for ocean life without needing to hang out with Nemo, or if you won't be able to experience an imagination-themed pavilion without going through the story of Inside Out? Figment and Dreamfinder are characters in the same way those other properties have characters, yes, but at the very least they were designed with a theme park attraction in mind and thus tailored for that specific experience...plus, they're not already ubiquitous in many people's homes in the form of home or streaming video, thus necessitating a trip to Orlando if you actually wish to experience them. Again, this is in no way a blanket condemnation of IP usage, which with regards to Disney parks has its roots in Disneyland's opening, but it IS a serious critique of the current creative direction and the lack of variety and care it seemingly puts forward, at least in the stateside parks.

 

[jensenrick]

Well... if anyone is interested in what I think...

The Energy and GMR replacements should be very good. They're just in the wrong place. Again. Guardians is the wrong park, the GMR shouldn't close for Mickey. DHS needs all the new capacity it can get. Stick it in an Art Deco warehouse on Sunset Market. Stick in where the Animation building is. So many lost opportunities.

The two SWL attractions I expect to be rather spectacular. The land will look great too, albeit a bit small. Toy Story land I'm afraid will be something to use to get to SWL. Thematically and content wise it's a lost opportunity. For any demographic.

Plans for the Innoventions buildings are interesting. Innoventions was long dead anyway and Communicore will never return.

I'm quite excited about plans for Showcase too. If they all come to fruition. And so long as they add to and not replace current features.

They actually HAVE plans for the Innoventions buildings? That's nice to know.
I'm quite excited that there are plans for Showcase too.

 

[rle4lunch]

So I visited EPCOT in '82, '84 and '86 when I was 6, 8, and 10 years old, respectively. I was CAPTIVATED by it in 84 when I really started to grasp science and the world. So much so that I had dreams of actually being there for years after my visit. When I visited in again '86, I was still captivated by all the cool interactive things they had going on, my mind was effectively blown, even by the simple jumping water attraction that was 'jumping' to the music. SSE was amazeballs, and filled my head full of thoughts of the future. The next time I visited after '86 was 2002. Guess what? My mind wasn't blown. The kids I saw walking around weren't really amazed by anything. By and large, the attractions were almost the same as when I was a kid, with the addition of 1 cool ride (Mission Space, before it was split into 2, ), 1 so-so ride (Test Track), and a bunch of waste of space rides (Maelstrom, Donald and Friends Mexican adventure, Ellen's Energy cavalcade), and other rides that were either dying on the vine or rotted off and shriveling up on the ground (SSE, The Living Seas, Journey into Imagination). Hell, even the pyro and fireworks show only changed minimally over 17 years. Needless to say, I was not captivated. The only thing that really appealed to me besides the topiaries and mission space, was WS, mainly because it was cool and my tastes for what I find entertaining changed since I was a kid. Nevertheless, I've visited WDW proper at least 6 or 7 more times since 2002, and every time I visit Epcot it feels like I'm visiting a park that's slowly going bankrupt.. Which is so sad, considering we go the first week of December every time. I used to be amazed by the Christmas overlay, now, minimalistic crap. Remember where a Santa was out in every country around WS telling their countries story? Now it's hard to even catch one, let alone all of them because their so sporadic.

SSE has turned into some sort of weirdo half ride where you learn some history and then ride back down looking at neon tubes and listening to crappy "futuristic" music. Test Track Tron version was cool (was there for the opening of that, boy talk about bugs in the system), but that ride loses its luster real quick. Mission Space is still fun, but needs an update desperately. Soarin', well, I never went on it because of the ridiculous wait times and since we lived in Cali we went on it all the time at DCA (although we're anxious to see SOW this December on our trip).

Conclusion, as others have said time and time again, the park needs a lot of love. Glad to see hideous maelstrom play its troll swan song (back, back you stupid ride!), glad to see that SOW is there now, glad to hear that changes are coming, no matter what they may be.

 

[montyz81]

By and large, the attractions were almost the same as when I was a kid, with the addition of 1 cool ride (Mission Space, before it was split into 2, ), 1 so-so ride (Test Track), and a bunch of waste of space rides (Maelstrom, Donald and Friends Mexican adventure, Ellen's Energy cavalcade), and other rides that were either dying on the vine or rotted off and shriveling up on the ground (SSE, The Living Seas, Journey into Imagination).

Does anyone see the Wall-E irony of this message or is it just me.

 

[GhostHost1000]

You do realize many of the devout EPCOT Center fans are those who were kids. EPCOT Center was PACKED in its hey day and it wasn't soely from adults.

just playing devil's advocate here... but those kids traveled there with their parents and there weren't 4 parks to spread the crowds out as there are now

I understand what you are saying however... I don't like where things are going, but honestly it doesn't surprise me. I have said for awhile now I believe all theme parks will end up having a little bit of MK in them, some do already. MK is where the mass crowds are so right or wrong they probably feel as if this is a way to spread some of that out to other parks too.