News 'Beyond Big Thunder Mountain' Blue Sky concept revealed for Magic Kingdom

[yensidtlaw1969]

4 would be moved back toward Floridian Way if Villain Land actually gets built. I don’t believe the area behind small world is in play.

Who do we have to write to get them to do a Villains Land first?

I'm much more interested in that than Coco or Encanto.

 

[eddie104]

Is the general consensus that each land only contains one attraction ?

 

[CastAStone]

Honest question:
I haven't been on the Riverboat (and obviously the train has been down for quite a while now)... are the Native Americans depicted in a negative light?

I can’t speak for the Native Americans but it’s a very 1950s-1980s depiction. I think it’s intended at least to be respectful but at the same time I don’t think you’d do it that way if you were starting from scratch in 2023.

When we took the train last month I was struck by it still being there, and moreso, that it looked like everything was freshly repainted and touched up. That train was closed for approximately 1 millennia and retracked, and while JC and PPF had changes made and Splash got new plans announced, they decided not to touch the train’s natives. So I’ll be surprised if that scene goes any time soon.

 

[MagicHappens1971]

I can’t speak for the Native Americans but it’s a very 1950s-1980s depiction. I think it’s intended at least to be respectful but at the same time I don’t think you’d do it that way if you were starting from scratch in 2023.

When we took the train last month I was struck by it still being there, and moreso, that it looked like everything was freshly repainted and touched up. That train was closed for approximately 1 millennia and retracked, and while JC and PPF had changes made and Splash got new plans announced, they decided not to touch the train’s natives. So I’ll be surprised if that scene goes any time soon.

I was also shocked that those scenes remained. Especially since one of them is pretty similar to some of the Jungle Cruise scenes that were replaced.

 

[UNCgolf]

Oh I know, hence my little disclaimer - I don't particularly want Coco in EPCOT (or Frozen, or any of the ill-fitting IP's that have been proposed or built for World Showcase), but of the existing landscape at WDW that's maybe where it could make the most sense without building a whole mini-land for it. AK is out, DHS would be a stretch, but at least there's a cultural component that could be expanded on for EPCOT. But I agree that the facility is too small for something that would undoubtedly be popular.

I'm also not sold on the idea that a Flight of Passage-like attraction is the best ride concept for the IP. While riding on the back of an Alebrije would no doubt be fun, I think for guests the aspirational moment in Coco is more about visiting the Land of the Dead and seeing that place "for real". There could be some absolutely thrilling set design and illusions in creating that space dimensionally, not to mention the great Animatronic moments they could create with the Calaveras. It would be nice to slow down and drink in that environment rather than blister past it in a CGI screen-fest, especially if like Flight of Passage you never get to see the creature you're riding on. Witnessing a big Alebrije animatronic would make more of an impact to me than "riding" one on another simulator.

I think building another FoP-style ride anywhere at WDW would be a mistake -- while I enjoy FoP, the ride mostly boils down to watching a 3D video with some simulated motion. I think duplicating it would both detract from FoP as an experience and water down the new attraction because they would be so similar. I don't think changing a video differentiates attractions nearly as much as different sets, AAs, etc.

Even putting that aside, while the system is basically a perfect fit to fly around Pandora (an FoP with physical sets and AAs would, of course, be even better, but that would be insanely cost prohibitive and not remotely feasible), I think other concepts would work better for the vast majority of potential attractions. As you mentioned, Coco/the Land of the Dead would be much better with physical sets and AAs than flying around on video.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

I think building another FoP-style ride anywhere would be a mistake -- while I enjoy FoP, the ride mostly boils down to watching a 3D video with some simulated motion. I think duplicating it at WDW would both detract from FoP as an experience and water down the new attraction because they would be so similar. I don't think changing a video differentiates attractions nearly as much as different sets, AAs, etc.

Even putting that aside, while the system is basically a perfect fit to fly around Pandora (an FoP with physical sets and AAs would, of course, be even better, that would be insanely cost prohibitive and not remotely feasible), I think other concepts would work better for the vast majority of potential attractions. As you mentioned, Coco/the Land of the Dead would be much better with physical sets and AAs than flying around on video.

Right? You want to cross that bridge and explore some of that amazing world, not whizz around it for 2.5 minutes and then be booted back to the land of the living.

I agree that part of the appeal of Flight of Passage is that the way the elements combine to what feels like a relatively unique format. For all the comparisons we make to Soarin', the ride does add up to more than the sum of those parts. But to try that particular ride system again in the same resort sort of risks exposing that those elements are maybe not as special as FoP makes them feel.

Besides, didn't some of Soarin's pull drop when the superior Flight of Passage opened? I know the new film is also less well-regarded than "Over California", and maybe that plays some part, but I think people sense that it's a lesser version of something they may have ridden the day before.

 

[UNCgolf]

Right? You want to cross that bridge and explore some of that amazing world, not whizz around it for 2.5 minutes and then be booted back to the land of the living.

View attachment 697891

I agree that part of the appeal of Flight of Passage is that the way the elements combine to what feels like a relatively unique format. For all the comparisons we make to Soarin', the ride does add up to more than the sum of those parts. But to try that particular ride system again in the same resort sort of risks exposing that those elements are maybe not as special as FoP makes them feel.

Besides, didn't some of Soarin's pull drop when the superior Flight of Passage opened? I know the new film is also less well-regarded than "Over California", and maybe that plays some part, but I think people sense that it's a lesser version of something they may have ridden the day before.

I think part of the problem with Soarin' (even though I still enjoy it) compared to FoP is that it's not a seamless experience. Yes, there are issues with the projection warping the video, and it's not 3D, but putting those aside, it's not a consistent journey from A to B. Of course it can't be -- you can't show off different places around the world without jumping all over the place -- but it makes it that much more obvious that you're on a ride watching a video on a screen and thus much harder to suspend disbelief. So yes, I do think the existence of FoP has hurt the appeal of Soarin'.

As an aside, I don't know if the Avengers E ticket is still supposed to be using the FoP system, but that would make more sense considering Flight of Passage doesn't exist in California. I don't think it's a good system for the Avengers IP in general and they could come up with something significantly better (the whole Quinjet idea has always felt extremely misguided to me), but it at least doesn't have a competing attraction at the same resort.

 

[MagicHappens1971]

As an aside, I don't know if the Avengers E ticket is still supposed to be using the FoP system, but that would make more sense considering Flight of Passage doesn't exist in California. I don't think it's a good system for the Avengers IP in general and they could come up with something significantly better (the whole Quinjet idea has always felt extremely misguided to me), but it at least doesn't have a competing attraction at the same resort.

I didn’t know that the Avengers E was going to use the FoP system, that seems like a poor choice. I also think that the Quinjet idea is a poor choice. A story coaster with elements from Cosmic Rewind could’ve been a great device for the Avengers. Or a more creative storytelling output put into a one of a kind attraction like RotR

 

[UNCgolf]

I didn’t know that the Avengers E was going to use the FoP system, that seems like a poor choice. I also think that the Quinjet idea is a poor choice. A story coaster with elements from Cosmic Rewind could’ve been a great device for the Avengers. Or a more creative storytelling output put into a one of a kind attraction like RotR

I'm not positive if it was supposed to be exactly the FoP system, but I think it was supposed to be similar at the very least.

A story coaster sounds good on paper, but if Cosmic Rewind is the best they can do there... feels like a massive waste of money and they could do much better with something else. Cosmic Rewind is a fine attraction as a coaster but fails pretty hard at the story part.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

I'm not positive if it was supposed to be exactly the FoP system, but I think it was supposed to be similar at the very least.

A story coaster sounds good on paper, but if Cosmic Rewind is the best they can do there... feels like a massive waste of money and they could do much better with something else. Cosmic Rewind is a fine attraction as a coaster but fails pretty hard at the story part.

I think one of the issues they have with Marvel in the parks is that they clearly would much rather make a ride where we "become" a Superhero than make a ride where we simply get saved by one . . . despite the fact that the latter concept opens up so many more creative doors and makes more sense for the franchise.

 

[doctornick]

If the premise of any Coco is that you visit the land of the dead, I do think it could support a CBJ-esque show of dead performers like the competition in the movie. In addition to a main ride.

 

[doctornick]

I think one of the issues they have with Marvel in the parks is that they clearly would much rather make a ride where we "become" a Superhero than make a ride where we simply get saved by one . . . despite the fact that the latter concept opens up so many more creative doors and makes more sense for the franchise.

Uni’s Spider-Man- which is probably the best superhero ride in existence - does just that which kinda speaks to you point

 

[doctornick]

4 would be moved back toward Floridian Way if Villain Land actually gets built. I don’t believe the area behind small world is in play.

I’d like to think that they build any expansion with a consideration that it could connect to the land north of Fantasyland were that ever planned to be used. IOW don’t be stupid and build in a way that the buildings all block off to that direction

 

[CastAStone]

Besides, didn't some of Soarin's pull drop when the superior Flight of Passage opened?

I mean the third theater opening the prior year probably contributed some to rebalancing wait times for the ride too.

 

[marni1971]

I'm not positive if it was supposed to be exactly the FoP system

Same system, same 4 theatre layout.

Just no seats.

 

[MrPromey]

Same system, same 4 theatre layout.

Just no seats.

So you'd be standing? on a moving platform?

The only way I could see that working would be if they were to copy the Back To the Future/Simpson's approach but with a more enclosed vehicle... that had seats.

 

[Door Coaster]

So you'd be standing? on a moving platform?

The only way I could see that working would be if they were to copy the Back To the Future/Simpson's approach but with a more enclosed vehicle... that had seats.

Ironically the newly announced King Thanos E for Cali seems to be using the Simpsons system.

Educated guess? Simpsons.

 

[Brer Panther]

I agree that Coco would work better as a busbar blacklight dark ride than a simulator. Magic Kingdom needs more dark rides as is.

 

[ToTBellHop]

I agree that Coco would work better as a busbar blacklight dark ride than a simulator. Magic Kingdom needs more dark rides as is.

Encanto could be an awesome dark ride through the various rooms of the house.

 

[dennis-in-ct]

if it came down to it, it’s probably easier/cheaper to move to fireworks launch sites more north if they needed to open up more land than it is to do things like redirect canals or redo the the ROA/train tracks.

If that happens, I wonder if moving the fireworks pad further north would affect the timing during the shows. Would they have to readjust all the timing I wonder