News 'Beyond Big Thunder Mountain' Blue Sky concept revealed for Magic Kingdom

[MrPromey]

My sincere hope is that they can't honestly be this inept at PR and that they'd only show these things if they're a bit further along in development than they're letting on.
...

I would hope so, too but - and maybe this isn't fair - my mind goes back to that Main Street Theater. That was announced as coming - not a concept but a greenlit project and that just vanished without any further discussion or explanation.

The Epcot stuff they were displaying models to showcase what was on the way in the park and anything they hadn't already started moving dirt for just went away. Also, was there even a peep made about the play pavilion originally announced back in 2019?*

They have a fairly recent history of saying something is coming and then not delivering.

In this instance, they didn't even say any of this was coming which doesn't instill me with a high degree of any hope.


*I know the pandemic played a roll and that to a degree, there absolutely were circumstances that could have caused them to delay or change plans but it looks like things got shelved or scaled back indefinitely so this isn't like Tron and Moana opening behind the original schedule.

 

[doctornick]

It's too bad that the Tokyo Disneyland Resort has the issue with space. Can you imagine what the Oriental Land Company could do if they had a Disney World size property?

To be fair, in the past decade or so, OLC built very little at TDL. They've recently opened the wallet to build again in recent years, but it's not like they have been on a constant building spree.

 

[SNS]

To be fair, in the past decade or so, OLC built very little at TDL. They've recently opened the wallet to build again in recent years, but it's not like they have been on a constant building spree.

Wouldn't that be because of the space issue? Reacquiring more land from sea probably isn't an option and they can't move inland because everything is bought by others there.

 

[doctornick]

doubt it will happen because Disney can't build a ride in less than 5 years.

Disney absolutely can if they want to. It's not that they aren't capable, they just don't care and prefer the longer timeframes.

If they wanted to approve and build out the Moana area, I think they are fully able to do that by the end of 2025. Tron isn't taking 6 years to build due to inability for a faster timeframe, it's because they decided to pause in building it for large stretches of time for various reasons.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

They have a fairly recent history of saying something is coming and then not delivering.

But I think that's the point, right?

To go back to your analogy, Dad told the kids that they're going to Grand Floridian for 10 nights in July with reservations at Ohana and Chef Mickey's, but then when the trip came around they "only" went for 8 nights at Port Orleans French Quarter, the trip was delayed until November, and they could only get into Kona and Steakhouse 71. Then the kids spent the next decade ripping Dad online for being a cheapass who doesn't follow through on his promises.

Maybe the Dad is going to be a bit more vague the next time he announces plans so he doesn't get raked over the coals for not delivering on the details.

 

[SirLink]

Let's just say they do build this expansion in Magic Kingdom...basically connecting Frontierland and Fantasyland. Having an expansion of that size means more people will be allowed in the parks. How does that affect Main Street at the end of the night? How about transportation?

Or they keep the same number of guests and double the ticket price.

 

[UNCgolf]

It fits thematically but doesn’t actually fit in Mexico. They can’t fit a headliner there.

I've assumed that the original plan was for Coco to go into Mexico, then they realized it's just not feasible -- at least not without shutting down the Mexico Pavilion to make significant structural changes.

 

[MrPromey]

But I think that's the point, right?

To go back to your analogy, Dad told the kids that they're going to Grand Floridian for 10 nights in July with reservations at Ohana and Chef Mickey's, but then when the trip came around they "only" went for 8 nights at Port Orleans French Quarter, the trip was delayed until November, and they could only get into Kona and Steakhouse 71. Then the kids spent the next decade ripping Dad online for being a cheapass who doesn't follow through on his promises.

Maybe the Dad is going to be a bit more vague the next time he announces plans so he doesn't get raked over the coals for not delivering on the details.

I guess... or he says they're going to the Grand Floridan which turns out to be a Holiday In Express with dinner at the Golden Coral near a Six Flags?..

Or they end up going nowhere at all?

Instead of Dad being more vague, maybe he should not not start announcing trips half a decade before he plans on taking them, especially since one kid will be off to college by that point and unlikely to go, anyway?

 

[lazyboy97o]

If its actually greenlit by the end of this year, I think you can set a low bar for what counts as opening in DAK in 2025 and them crossing it. For what it’s worth, where they want to build is more primed for construction than TRON or World Sandpit in EPCOT.

Feasibility and the big Go-No Go decision comes after Concept Design. That still leaves three phases of design (Schematic Design, Design Development and Construction Documentation) that easily represent more than 3/4s of the design work that still need to be done. That’s easily several months of work for just a small project, much less a large E-ticket attraction.

When it is penciled in on the MASTER PLAN and when it opens are different things. It can be built in 2 years. If they want.

It still needs to be designed before it can be built.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Instead of Dad being more vague, maybe he should not not start announcing trips half a decade before he plans on taking them, especially since one kid will be off to college by that point and unlikely to go, anyway?

But then Dad gets scooped by bioreconstruct on Twitter and... this analogy is getting away from me.

 

[Jrb1979]

My sincere hope is that they can't honestly be this inept at PR and that they'd only show these things if they're a bit further along in development than they're letting on.

I know you want to have faith in Disney but a lot these things were just hype to get the super fans going. Most won't see the light of day. It's a game.

 

[correcaminos]

Not what I would've done back there (assuming this ever happens) but, unlike some other things they've done or are planning, I can at least see some the rationale.

Coco's Mexican vibe plays off the existing southwest Frontier theme. The Spanish language obviously ties Encanto in with Coco. The best way to execute this so as to provide some long term flexibility is to do it as a, for lack of a better term, Fiesta Village with both IPs living in the same general space as opposed to two distinct mini-lands. Something like that would allow for Three Caballeros or a rebooted Zorro to be slotted in later and not seem out of place. Its really not in line with the original Frontierland concept but I bet they want to move away from the Davey Crockett-esque iteration of Frontierland anyway due its problematic elements.

Villains obviously is playing off the darker Haunted Mansion vibe. Judging by the concept art, its the least flushed out concept. How the former and ladder transition to one another is a little harder to see. The concept art makes it look like Coco is closer to Big Thunder but Coco's Dia de Los Muertos focus clearly seems to be more of a thematic match with Mansion or villains. I am not a huge villains as a land guy so if they must go this route, I hope they dump the idea and give us Nightmare Before Christmas' Halloweentown instead.

I don't think doing any of this should require complete removal of Rivers of America. Ideally (at least ideally as it relates to this specific scenario), it should just shortened like what was done at Disneyland - the northern bend being significantly reduced, curving immediately behind Fort Langhorn. WDRR either gets subsequently pushed north/northwest to keep it on the periphery or pulled in closer to the new northern bend a la Disneyland but perhaps with a tunnel through the Villains section to keep it out of sight?

That said, if I were a betting man, I would put my money on a permanently docked riverboat with TSI and ROA as we know it ceasing to exist. It would allow them to reconfigure if not remove the canal used to to take the riverboat backstage for maintenance which makes extending pedestrian access north of Big Thunder much easier.

No. Pretending Mexican and Colombian lives are so closely related that this is possible is honestly offensive. And no, Mexico is entirely different than the SW of the United States.

 

[MrPromey]

But then Dad gets scooped by bioreconstruct on Twitter and... this analogy is getting away from me.

It was fun while it lasted, though.

You ending this means I have to scrap my entire storyline about dad leaving mom for someone young enough to be his daughter and then spending the money planned for the trip on an engagement ring and her dream wedding.

I was waiting on the details of what you came back with to figure out how I was going to work that all in but I had the blue sky concept all sketched out in my mind.

 

[MrPromey]

I think that would work better as a ticketed experience in Disney Springs rather than inside park gates.

Sort of like what Universal is doing in Citywalk:

 

[James Alucobond]

No. Pretending Mexican and Colombian lives are so closely related that this is possible is honestly offensive. And no, Mexico is entirely different than the SW of the United States.

This is not a World Showcase pavilion. Geographically and culturally distinct attractions are put side-by-side all the time absent any sort of statement about "closely related lives", whatever that means. Areas like Adventureland and Fantasyland have always been about cosmetically enmeshing things even if they don't all spring from the same culture or mythology.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

"Moana and Zootopia in Animal Kingdom" are not projects (yet). But you don't believe that "rebuild Dinoland" is on the 10 year plan with a rough dollar amount next to it?

Why?

Has attendance dropped significantly between now and then?

And in the case of zootopia…it makes zero sense. A good movie…but not the kind that will have longterm draw/appeal in a park.


Moana makes more sense…but breaking news on that.

 

[mightynine]

So, if Epcot is getting Moana's Journey of Water, is AK getting Moana's Journey In Water?

 

[mysto]

Project code name TARDIS. It's bigger on the inside than the outside. Don't worry it'll all fit.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

100% agree. I'd bet Beyond BTMRR and Dinoland replacement are approved projects. They shut down PW for a reason. WDI does not just make concept art for fun. They are paid for projects. This was not some Imagineer's weekend artwork.

Nahhh…

WDI believes everything they do is “legit”…but there is little management inkling to spend on many things they produce.

It’s really an in house R&D lab…idle minds are to be avoided so you throw them bones. They’re gonna severely downsize it in the coming years too…just a hunch

 

[MrPromey]

That's why I think ROA is toast. IMO, the path will run from the dead-end at the exit of Big Thunder, to alongside the queue for the Haunted Mansion. They could scrap the existing HM queue, and redo it farther "up river". They could make boardwalks and bridge to and from the south bits of the north island. Bad drawing, but Blue = new HM queue area, Grey = main connector, and they build the actual land(s) in the space North of the grey line.

I see someone else posted their plot faster, but I'm keeping mine.

When and if they ever get around to using this space, it really comes down to what they want. They modified the river but kept it and the roverboat to build SWL in DL.

Looking at that map, there is more room along the side of the show building for HM than it looks like and the actual outdoor queue space for that ride occupies much less space than you've allowed for in your illustration.

If they were to open up the current queue area and perhaps push out into the river space just a little to make sure it's wide enough to avoid a choke point, that could become pathway and a small portion of what you indicated could be used to reroute the line.

Moving the entrance to that side, would have the effect of "shortening" that corridor past haunted mansion since we would effectively be extending the haunted mansion footprint in that direction. Then, what you're left with is a strip of land roughly as wide as most of frontier land between the haunted mansion show building and the water which is plenty of space for shops and stuff to get you past most of that sort of choke-point.

They could do it in a way that would make it not seem like the Main Street bypass if they wanted while doing little to no modification of the river.

It's just a question of how important the river and Tom Sawyer's Island is or isn't to them.