News 'Beyond Big Thunder Mountain' Blue Sky concept revealed for Magic Kingdom

[Fox&Hound]

The thing with Disney Villains is that they don't really have enough in common to support a unified "theme" park. A few are alike enough in sensibility that it's fun to see them palling around, but that's not really enough to support a whole park.

People always talk about "Dark Kingdom", but what really would that be? Disney Villains tend to hail from totally different locales, with only a few that are similar enough aesthetically to shove together in a way that doesn't feel completely random. Those are mostly the older ones - Maleficent, Chernabog, The Wicked Queen, Captain Hook, and maybe The Horned King (not that I expect them to acknowledge him at all) could have a cohesive little Villainy Village formed out of their lairs and locations. A hive of skullduggery among rocky outcroppings with crumbling towers and creepy cottages, and other Villains could make appearances within that. But if you tried to bear that out across a whole park you quickly run out of places that both make sense to have in proximity and that guests are really dying to visit.

Other parks shove together disparate locations, but they do it under an overarching theme that's greater than "Imagine if these guys were all neighbors". The lands in MK are culturally aspirational in a way that, like, Cruella's House or Hans' Southern Isles just aren't. The list of strong, popular, and merchandisable Villains with great themed attraction potential really isn't all that long . . . not long enough to support a whole park.

Add to it that Disney hasn't really invested in creating a really good, really bad Villain character in almost 15 years, and it suggests a whole park is not something they could commit to no matter how fun it is to imagine. And it is fun. But a land makes more sense.

Not to mention that it'd be a total odd man out among the given themes for the existing four parks at Walt Disney World - A Magical Kingdom, a Magical Movie Studio, the Natural Realm, Whatever they think EPCOT is anymore, and . . . Mean People?

You make a lot of great points here, and I fully agree. The goals/aims of the villains are also very different. Many have very specific visions that would have nothing to do with each other: to win Belle's love, to defeat Peter Pan, to make a fur coat, seeking revenge on not getting invited to a birthday party, to stay young forever. Or they want power/riches (Prince John, Lady Tremaine, Ursula, Scar, Hades, Jafar, Dr. Facilier, Hans, etc)- hmmmm maybe there is something to that. But then wouldn't they be in competition with one another? If you want to be supreme ruler then wouldn't anyone who wants the same thing be seen as an enemy? Haha, I know I am looking too far into this but that becomes the problem- as cool as it would be, and it is cool, when you peal back the layers it does not truly work. Unless they just go cartoony "let's destroy Mickey Mouse" but even that gets old after a while. The characters become caricatures and what made them special starts to fade. You get a "House of Mouse" villains episode which is surface-level satisfaction. The only way I see it working is if the lands are separate and the villains do not interact with one another. But, is that what people want???

 

[Disgruntled Walt]

You get a "House of Mouse" villains episode which is surface-level satisfaction.

They'll put in a theater that just shows the "House of Villains" special from House of Mouse on repeat. "It's Our House Now!" has been stuck in my head for two decades.

 

[pdude81]

You make a lot of great points here, and I fully agree. The goals/aims of the villains are also very different. Many have very specific visions that would have nothing to do with each other: to win Belle's love, to defeat Peter Pan, to make a fur coat, seeking revenge on not getting invited to a birthday party, to stay young forever. Or they want power/riches (Prince John, Lady Tremaine, Ursula, Scar, Hades, Jafar, Dr. Facilier, Hans, etc)- hmmmm maybe there is something to that. But then wouldn't they be in competition with one another? If you want to be supreme ruler then wouldn't anyone who wants the same thing be seen as an enemy? Haha, I know I am looking too far into this but that becomes the problem- as cool as it would be, and it is cool, when you peal back the layers it does not truly work. Unless they just go cartoony "let's destroy Mickey Mouse" but even that gets old after a while. The characters become caricatures and what made them special starts to fade. You get a "House of Mouse" villains episode which is surface-level satisfaction. The only way I see it working is if the lands are separate and the villains do not interact with one another. But, is that what people want???

There is precedent for this, and it's the Hocus Pocus show at MNSSHP. Maleficent is the ruler, and everybody else has their own side hustle. So she gets the castle, but there can be other territories/lands that have their own flare.

 

[James Alucobond]

Wasn't a "land" the only thing actually mentioned as a possibility? Where did the idea of a park come from? There are several issues with a full park devoted to villains that people have pointed out on here. I honestly think a "Dark Fantasyland" is much more realistic. This could include a roller coaster or perhaps a ride using whatever system is being used for the new Peter Pan E-Ticket in Tokyo. Plus a C-ticket. That's what I could see them doing for real.

There are posts earlier in the thread that are being re-referenced with the "Dark Kingdom" post from a page or so ago wherein folks were lamenting the fact that the villain area would "only" be a land, not a complete fifth gate.

 

[RSoxNo1]

If we’re dreaming, I want ROA re-routed between Splash and Thunder so we can get something like Paris.

I like it.

You'd probably lose the Frontierland station but you could have the train angle left out of Tiana's Bayou Adventure and use water and a bridge to more distinctly separate Splash and Thunder.

 

[MadderAdder]

They'll put in a theater that just shows the "House of Villains" special from House of Mouse on repeat. "It's Our House Now!" has been stuck in my head for two decades.

How is this not on D+!!!

 

[sedati]

I like it.

You'd probably lose the Frontierland station but you could have the train angle left out of Tiana's Bayou Adventure and use water and a bridge to more distinctly separate Splash and Thunder.

Imagine the riverboat going between the two mountains.

 

[Disgruntled Walt]

Imagine the riverboat going between the two mountains salt dome food co-op and the mountain.

Fixed that for you

 

[Suspirian]

Idk if this has been mentioned but I kinda feel like the only reason Disney is just now showing interest in a Villains land after decades of fans asking for it is because of Universal’s upcoming Classic Monsters Land.

 

[Bocabear]

Idk if this has been mentioned but I kinda feel like the only reason Disney is just now showing interest in a Villains land after decades of fans asking for it is because of Universal’s upcoming Classic Monsters Land.

That could be a thing...though the Disney Villains brand could be a big draw...Like Fantasyland, it doesn't need to have an elaborate backstory as to why each villain is there or how they relate to each other... Just a gathering of Villains related attractions housed in beautiful evocative architecture... It could live on the backside of the Rivers Of America/ Haunted Mansion, or even a huge new land in Hollywood Studios... I would prefer Magic Kingdom though.

 

[Suspirian]

That could be a thing...though the Disney Villains brand could be a big draw...Like Fantasyland, it doesn't need to have an elaborate backstory as to why each villain is there or how they relate to each other... Just a gathering of Villains related attractions housed in beautiful evocative architecture... It could live on the backside of the Rivers Of America/ Haunted Mansion, or even a huge new land in Hollywood Studios... I would prefer Magic Kingdom though.

Oh yes it would be very cool! Thats what makes me question "why now"? This is something that people have been begging them to do for ages. I may be thinking too much into it, but I feel a lot of Disney Parks moves are reactionary ever since Potter happened. Maybe we can finally get an original attraction if Universal decides to do one first

 

[Bocabear]

It is an excellent time to show the world what they can do, especially with Epic Universe under construction...and this would be a new area, so they would not have to work in the current open portions of the park... They need to do something that is amazing... something that is not value engineered or hobbled by budget cuts...Unless they will just wait until one of the other Disney parks does it first...which would be sad.

 

[Disgruntled Walt]

It is an excellent time to show the world what they can do, especially with Epic Universe under construction...and this would be a new area, so they would not have to work in the current open portions of the park... They need to do something that is amazing... something that is not value engineered or hobbled by budget cuts...Unless they will just wait until one of the other Disney parks does it first...which would be sad.

Five bucks says that DisneylandForward will have a clone of whatever they put in this spot.

 

[RobbinsDad]

That could be a thing...though the Disney Villains brand could be a big draw...Like Fantasyland, it doesn't need to have an elaborate backstory as to why each villain is there or how they relate to each other... Just a gathering of Villains related attractions housed in beautiful evocative architecture... It could live on the backside of the Rivers Of America/ Haunted Mansion, or even a huge new land in Hollywood Studios... I would prefer Magic Kingdom though.

It seems like a simple thing to add an entrance to Villain Land/Square/Whatever behind HM, and move the HM ride queue, like Toy Story Mania in Toy Story Land.

 

[Bocabear]

I think it could have a few evil villain attractions that are really suspenseful, including shows, but on the whole the park would have to be more fun and family friendly. Otherwise you end up with a highly rated park that nobody goes to.

See, and this is where I think the argument is completely wrong...a really good, well done and on the dark side Villains Land, even if it is a little too intense for smaller children, would still be a colossal hit. Having it segregated into it's own "land" would be easy to avoid with small children, Marketing could actually promote it as what it is, it would not interfere with the children-friendly rest of the park... I kind of love the idea of the alternate universe tucked around the backside of the ROA... Add some amazing set pieces along the shoreline for the Riverboat to see... It would be the first ever thing of it's type, it would pick up a HUGE audience...and it doesn't need to be grisly or too horrible... None of the Disney Villains are that frightening...but it sure could be amazing...

 

[Rich Brownn]

See, and this is where I think the argument is completely wrong...a really good, well done and on the dark side Villains Land, even if it is a little too intense for smaller children, would still be a colossal hit. Having it segregated into it's own "land" would be easy to avoid with small children, Marketing could actually promote it as what it is, it would not interfere with the children-friendly rest of the park... I kind of love the idea of the alternate universe tucked around the backside of the ROA... Add some amazing set pieces along the shoreline for the Riverboat to see... It would be the first ever thing of it's type, it would pick up a HUGE audience...and it doesn't need to be grisly or too horrible... None of the Disney Villains are that frightening...but it sure could be amazing...

For better or worse, our Magic Kingdom gained the reputation of being more or less a "kiddie" park (or at least kiddie-friendly). It's why Alien Encounter didn't survive. AE would have done OK in literally any other park - even Disneyland - but not here.

 

[WowFactor]

See, and this is where I think the argument is completely wrong...a really good, well done and on the dark side Villains Land, even if it is a little too intense for smaller children, would still be a colossal hit. Having it segregated into it's own "land" would be easy to avoid with small children, Marketing could actually promote it as what it is, it would not interfere with the children-friendly rest of the park... I kind of love the idea of the alternate universe tucked around the backside of the ROA... Add some amazing set pieces along the shoreline for the Riverboat to see... It would be the first ever thing of it's type, it would pick up a HUGE audience...and it doesn't need to be grisly or too horrible... None of the Disney Villains are that frightening...but it sure could be amazing...

I think the same way! I even developed a project to illustrate this, the Villains Village.

If you're curious, check the project presentation here:
https://docs.google.com/presentatio...CQxRqRBYKYVLzZWQa0oRGsokt4/present?slide=id.p

Or some single pictures on this thread:
https://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/villains-village-by-wow-factor-blue-sky-project.973372/

I'd love to hear your thoughts about it.
Wow

 

[SteveAZee]

I asked both Bard and ChatGPT to pitch (as an Imagineer) a villains land. ChatGPT's was better, but not all that interesting.

 

[FigmentFan82]

@The Visionary Soul any solid info on this one? Updates? Etc?

 

[MrPromey]

See, and this is where I think the argument is completely wrong...a really good, well done and on the dark side Villains Land, even if it is a little too intense for smaller children, would still be a colossal hit. Having it segregated into it's own "land" would be easy to avoid with small children, Marketing could actually promote it as what it is, it would not interfere with the children-friendly rest of the park... I kind of love the idea of the alternate universe tucked around the backside of the ROA... Add some amazing set pieces along the shoreline for the Riverboat to see... It would be the first ever thing of it's type, it would pick up a HUGE audience...and it doesn't need to be grisly or too horrible... None of the Disney Villains are that frightening...but it sure could be amazing...

Why a land?

Why not a fifth gate?

Hollywood Studios used to sort of be Disney's answer to the teen/young adult demographic that other places have done a better job appealing to.

There are enough ideas IPs for them to more than fill a whole park and provide room to grow.

It could even have it's own castle - take your pick but Maleficent's would probably be my choice.

Instead of adding to the problem of too many people choosing MK over the other parks, I think it would easily become the second most popular park not just in WDW but in central Florida.

Height restrictions could run with abandon.

... and the hint would be a lot stronger, starting from the parking toll booths that this might not be the park to take the youngest ones to.

I feel like there would be a lot of business benefits to making this a complete park (cough, cough - more alcohol sales, more after-hours party/event opportunities to better compete with down the road - they could have a grown-up halloween party event there while still running MNSSHP at MK and capture both audiences or double-dip with the same crowd that are there for multiple days, just as a single example) without dancing around it like they do at the MK) with future room to grow... but of course, that's not happening.