Bad Guest Behavior and Disney's reactions to it...

[janoimagine]

Dave....you read my mind.

Just like in the rest of society, it all comes down to "class".

I am by no means an elitist (I may work a white collar job, but I do so in a very blue collar industry, and I consider myself middle class at best). But there is truth in the "stereotypes".

When I was a kid (80s and 90s) it was a privilege to go to WDW. We were lucky to go every 2-3 years (with those being our only vacation). My mom was a mom and dad made a low-moderate income. We weren't rich, but my parents saved so that we could have the honor of going to Disney World. And when we went, we were surrounded by people who did the same thing - they earned their trip and appreciated the amount of money they spent to get there.

Now, thanks to LOTS of things (including Disney's own discounts and offers), "anyone" can go to Disney World. Again, I don't say this like I think lesser privileged people shouldn't be ALLOWED to go - just that I wish the system were still set up so that it cost enough to almost force people to appreciate what they've paid for.

Additionally, I guess I was just brought up to respect other people's property, respect the rules, respect my parents and elders, and to try not to do anything stupid. But now, there is a HUGE portion of society that isn't raised that way, nor have they ever been taught to think that way. And when it comes to people who own nothing or have nothing - they typically don't respect anybody else's stuff or rules either.

I could go on and on, but this is what it's come to. There are people who flat out don't deserve the privilege of experiencing a place like Disney World, but can "magically" afford to go anyway. They ruin it for the rest of us by vandalizing, trashing, offending, breaking rules and putting themselves and others in danger.

I have to say that I agree with you 100%. Well stated.

 

[DimpledDevil18]

I don't think it's a "class" issue necessarily. I mean there definitely are lower class people who act like the rules don't apply to them, but on the same token you have rich people who think that BECAUSE they are spending more money on a deluxe resort perhaps that they are entitled to do what they please. Honestly I think that it all boils down to the fact that people today are just rude and have no respect for others. Thankfully I have never witnessed any guest mistreating a CM, but some people just assume that because they've spent money that gives them the entitlement to get anything they want. To a certain extent I believe a good business should show appreciation for their clients, but you also can't give out freebies anytime someone sticks their hand out. The problem nowadays is that everyone expects compensation if one little thing goes wrong. The reality is that things happen, everyone makes mistakes, no one's perfect, move on...

Another point to make is that people are just so focused on themselves nowadays that I really don't think that they even realize their own rudeness. I work as a waitress part time and let me tell you it blows my mind how oblivious some people are about their own lack of manners. I can't begin to tell you how many times I approach a table and before I can get a chance to open my mouth to welcome them and to introduce myself, I get someone interrupting (sometimes mid sentence) saying, "Yea... Uhmm we'll have 4 waters, some chips, and an order of wings." I actually had a woman once after I told her my name reply with, "Yea... That's nice... Anyway..." I mean really? People complain about lack of good service, but how can they possibly expect it when they don't even have the paitence to wait for it? So really I think that it's society as a whole and I feel that there really needs to be an effort to reteach people simple manners.

 

[ChrisFL]

I think in general people need to control their children much better and not let them run the place and spoil them rotten.

Disney security needs to step it up a bit too maybe its time to start throwing people out of the parks when they misbehave. Its a safety issue for them, and for me and for Disney and people who don't know how to follow the rules need to be shown the door.

Hence why I think being Disney security is probably a very difficult job to have. On the one hand you want to maintain Disney quality courtesy and friendliness but on the other hand you have to be constantly on the lookout for suspicious activities and people misbehaving.

One thing I haven't seen as much anymore (Thank God) are the heelys...aka the wheels on the back of shoes that many kids seemed to have for a while, I know Disney Security had their hands full with that.

 

[Monty]

The ultimate scene I witnessed in WDW:

A father screaming at his obviously exhausted, overheated, crying child "I paid $15,000 for this vacation and you're damn well going to have fun or we're never coming back to see Mickey Mouse again!"

Yeah.... That'll work!

 

[rock_doctor]

The ultimate scene I witnessed in WDW:

A father screaming at his obviously exhausted, overheated, crying child "I paid $15,000 for this vacation and you're damn well going to have fun or we're never coming back to see Mickey Mouse again!"

Yeah.... That'll work!

Fast forward 50 years, son screaming at his father, "I paid $15,000 to get you into this nursing home you are damn well going to have fun or we're moving you to the one next to the ship yard....". You really are a product of your environment.

 

[PhotoDave219]

There is simply no sense of common courtesy among American society anymore.

Sit on MSUSA and just watch people for 15 minutes and it becomes quickly apparent.

 

[Rob562]

Disney security needs to step it up a bit too maybe its time to start throwing people out of the parks when they misbehave. Its a safety issue for them, and for me and for Disney and people who don't know how to follow the rules need to be shown the door.

Some of the lack of rule enforcement by CMs can be traced (at least in some parts of the parks) to area management not backing up the CMs. I've heard many stories of CMs enforcing the rules, the Guests whining, crying and yelling at managers until the managers cave and *reward* the boorish Guests with free food, or free FastPasses, or whatever...

Eventually the CMs just get disheartened for not getting backed up by their boss and they stop making the effort.

What they need are middle managers who actually enforce the rules and who don't worry about losing customers who aren't the type of people that you want as your customer...

-Rob

 

[captainkidd]

Disney does nothing when it comes to flash photos on ride. It's rampant on Pirates. Flashes all over the place. Never heard a peep from any CM's.

What they should do is stop the ride immediately, make an announcement about not using your flash, then start the ride again. It will either embarrass the moron using the flash or get everyone so ed that they start screaming at the person.

 

[ClemsonTigger]

Some of the lack of rule enforcement by CMs can be traced (at least in some parts of the parks) to area management not backing up the CMs. I've heard many stories of CMs enforcing the rules, the Guests whining, crying and yelling at managers until the managers cave and *reward* the boorish Guests with free food, or free FastPasses, or whatever...

Eventually the CMs just get disheartened for not getting backed up by their boss and they stop making the effort.

What they need are middle managers who actually enforce the rules and who don't worry about losing customers who aren't the type of people that you want as your customer...

-Rob

While it bypasses the whole issue of people behaving so badly that intercession is needed (which IMHO is far and away the biggest part of the problem), it is a big problem the much of the "inforcement" responsibility falls on the front line CM's. You can have all the rules you want, but if it is reliant primarily on those CM's you have a recipe for disaster. Most will try, and after half a dozen instances of being ignored or threatened by guests with no support from management, they will just give up. Not that it doesn't happen, but I have yet to see a CM approach anyone walking around with a cigarette, or a kid with wheelies, addressing line cutting or other daily "minor" transgressions.

 

[Chrononymous]

I can definitely say I have felt the effects of the "entitled" or in this case...the rude teenager...

I rode Splash once with a group of them. They started by rocking the log back and forth, then proceeded to stand up every few minutes to take flash photos and throw balls of paper at the AAs.
The ride stopped and lights came on about half a dozen times. Finally a CM came over to tell them to quit it, or they were exiting the ride right now. They pretended they didn't know what she was saying. Or maybe they really didn't.

They were Brazillian...though I don't think that factored into it as much as...they were teenagers without a chaperone, and they thought it was funny to do these things.

 

[PhilharMagician]

There is simply no sense of common courtesy among American society anymore.

Sit on MSUSA and just watch people for 15 minutes and it becomes quickly apparent.

Hey don't blame it on just the Americans and our society. I have had just as many foreigners being pushy, rude and using the "me no speak English" excuse. This unfortunately is a worldwide epidemic.

 

[Monty]

Disney does nothing when it comes to flash photos on ride. It's rampant on Pirates. Flashes all over the place. Never heard a peep from any CM's.

What they should do is stop the ride immediately, make an announcement about not using your flash, then start the ride again. It will either embarrass the moron using the flash or get everyone so ed that they start screaming at the person.

Kinda hard to stop Pirates... You basically float through until you hit the back of the boat in front of you.

 

[Master Yoda]

Disney does nothing when it comes to flash photos on ride. It's rampant on Pirates. Flashes all over the place. Never heard a peep from any CM's.

What they should do is stop the ride immediately, make an announcement about not using your flash, then start the ride again. It will either embarrass the moron using the flash or get everyone so ed that they start screaming at the person.

The picture below is a representation of a no flash photography deterrent system I would like to see in Disney attractions.

 

[Phonedave]

Wow. Not to get too off-topic, but when it comes to local movie theaters, I have a nearly-opposite problem. The more expensive movie theater, with the stadium seating and better audio, is located in my local mall. All the actual and wannabe gangbangers go to the mall to hang out and then go to the movies, especially on the weekends. Not to mention the uusual large groups of boorish teenagers, young'uns on dates who don't know or care to turn their phones off, people who bring babies, etc. Fights are not uncommon, and there's even the occasional gunshot. Whereas the less-expensive theater, in a standalone building next to a strip mall with few teen-friendly stores ooutside of a Kohl's, has become the haven of the older movie goers. It feels like that episode of The Simpsons where a curfew is imposed on anyone under 50 "We took back the niiiiiiight!"

Anyway, where I take umbrage with your initial post is that you seem to assume that wealth = manners. Just because people take advantage of an offer (or if that offer is the only way they can go to WDW) doesn't mean that they're the ones causing problems at WDW on any given day. Nor does being able to afford deluxe suites means that those families are better behaved than the Brady Bunch (any given episode of any given "Real Housewives" roves that some people are rotten no matter what).

I know that resort prices aren't so terribly out of line compared to hotel rooms at many other metropolitan areas. But the price of the parks, the water parks, snacks and souvenirs can really add up, to say nothing of getting there, if you need a rental car, if you plan on going anywhere BESIDES WDW...

And I know, nobody on a budget HAS to add all the incidentals to their vacation. But even a few "let's spoil ourselves" moments can add hundreds to an average family's vacation.

So I'd make the opposite argument - even with the special deals, WDW vacations are so expensive for so many people (or people make decisions that make the vacations even more expensive) that many of them feel entitled to do whatever the Hell they want. "For the money you charge, I'm sitting where I want, I'm eating fried chicken on Space Mountain, I'm not getting out of the water to ______..." And unless those people are causing a ruckus that might result in injury or death, CMs aren't gonna do much.

Our expensive theater is in the mall as well. Maybe it's because I am not watching movies that appeal to the teen set and parents with kids are taking them to the cheaper theater. It is also a LOT easier to park at the other theater. The Garden State Plaza is a madhouse. it may not be the biggest mall in the US (but it is one of them) but it has one of the highest sale volumes. Couple that with the fact that it's closed on Sundays and it is crazy

anyway ...

To discuss your ubrage I tried (but guess I failed at it) to show that I don't feel that wealth=manners, but more along the lines of "special moments" = manners. WDW has lost a lot of that "special moment" feeling, both from price and from what it offers.

In fact, I would argue that the wealthy are less mannered at times, because dropping the money on WDW is even less of a special event for them.

-dave

 

[janoimagine]

The picture below is a representation of a no flash photography deterrent system I would like to see in Disney attractions.

I am all for that, I may have just found my second career.

 

[DBF John]

....You want a great barometer to know if you're old? I can remember when people would enter a theatre (Captain EO, Muppets, Hall of Presidents, etc) and actually move to the end of the aisle as instructed over the intercom.

And for those that do not, I gleefully tromp on their feet as I move to the end.

 

[fosse76]

I am sure there are plenty that find WDW too pricey (especialy if airfare is part of the requirement)

I will however, use another entertainment venue to illustrate my point - movies/theater.

There are two movie theaters that I frequent. One is an older one, non-3D, standard seating. One of those ones with that used to have three concession stands at one time, and now two are shuttered. It is about $12 admission to go there.

The next is a newer one (about a year old). Brand new projection, 3D capable, stadium seating that reclines with flip up armrests. It is I think $16 or $17 (I go with my kids, I forget the adult/child breakout)

The behavior of people in the more expensive theater is most assuredly much better than those in the cheaper theater. The $4 or $5 difference is not going to make or break someone. It's the impression that you are in someplace better, that makes somone behave better.

I see the same thing when going to a off-Broadway to a Broadway show. Even something like Avenue Q, which is a fun, rowdy, type musical that the crowd gets into, has a well behaved considerate audience (At least when it was on-Broadway, I haven't seen it since it left). Part of it has to do with the amount of money you paid for the ticket, and the other part has to with the atmosphere.

Be careful,your elitism, as well as the elitest attitudes of a few others here, is showing. I have worked at Six Flags, The Art Institute of Chicago AND as an usher on Broadway. And I can assure you that the Membership of the Art Institute and the audiences of a Broadway show behave far worse than anything Six Flags threw at me. No contest. People with money (or, if you rather, people who are spending what they perceive to be a lot of money) pretty much expect to do whatever they want, and when you tell them they can't do something they become rather abusive.

I am currently working at A Steady Rain on Broadway. The last two months I was in the Orchestra (home to the $300 ticket). It was pretty much one rude person after another, not following instructions, arguing over seat locations, complaining about having to turn off phones, etc. The mezzanine, home to the $125 ticket and the student rush section, is practically a vacation in comparison. Lots of pleases and thank you's, following instructions, ask questions politely, etc.

At the Art Institute, having to deal with members (many of whom were obscenely wealthy) was just as irritating. I think many saw themselves as having an ownership stake in the museum, and often felt compelled to tell us what they deserve to get as opposed to what was being offered. They were some of the nastiest people to deal with.

At Six Flags, we had essentially the same problem with guest misbehavior that Disney does. But rarely did ever come close to what I dealt with daily on broadway or at The Art Institute.

To blame "lower-class" people (how dare they come to Disney World) is not only insulting, but not indicative of the problem at all. You would be hard-pressed to find any correlation between the opening of the "Value Resorts (which are ONLY a Value based on Disney's other hotels, and not a "value" by industry standards). The majority of Disney Parks' guests stay off-site, and most probably don't pay anywhere near the Deluxe or moderate prices.

By making the cost cheaper (not necessarly affordable, just cheaper) and maintaining the parks to match, WDW has lost some of that atmosphere that says "I better behave while I am here because it's a nice place"

-dave

I dare you to prove that the guests who misbehave are disproportionately staying at a "value" resort. I'd bet that most of the guests that cause problems (assuming they stay on property) are staying at a Deluxe or Moderate. I think the problem everyone is talking about is attributable to societal standards as a whole and not one sub-class.

 

[wm49rs]

OK - I am going to get smacked by some of you for this, but I will throw it out there anyway.

- The (To quote 47) 'Wal*Marting" of WDW

- Discounts and promos galore. Making a trip to WDW not something extra special, but a common occurrence (Disney would rather have 50 people pay $20 each, than 5 people pay $100 each)

- The recent thread about dress code, and how some people wish for a return to the time when going to WDW was something special and you took the time to look presentable.

Take all that into account, mix in the entitlement attitude of many people today and you have a recipe for parks filled with people who see them as nothing more special than a trip to the local Great Adventure, and act accordingly.

I will continue to defend Disney and WDW when I feel they are making good decisions, but in this case you reap what you sow. Disney has sown a crop of stinkweed.
-dave

No smacking here. I came back from my trip last week thinking much of the same. I can do without the 50's dress code, but the lack of respect or awareness on the part of so many (kids and adults alike) was really distressing to me. Especially in some of the queues whose walls were tore up simply because the people became (boo-hoo) a little bored standing in line. As if that's a good reason to pull off paint (or whole sections of drywall) from the queues.....

 

[Tom]

Some of the lack of rule enforcement by CMs can be traced (at least in some parts of the parks) to area management not backing up the CMs. I've heard many stories of CMs enforcing the rules, the Guests whining, crying and yelling at managers until the managers cave and *reward* the boorish Guests with free food, or free FastPasses, or whatever...

Eventually the CMs just get disheartened for not getting backed up by their boss and they stop making the effort.

What they need are middle managers who actually enforce the rules and who don't worry about losing customers who aren't the type of people that you want as your customer...

-Rob

This is a very good point. There may be really good, upstanding CMs - but then they get overruled by their superiors. If that happens enough, nobody would try anymore.

At the same time, there are plenty of CMs who are in the same "generation" as the people we're complaining about in this thread. Many who came from the same molds - the same type of non-discipline households. They don't care any more than the bad guests do.

It's a shame. It's our society going down the toilet at an exponential rate.

 

[DisneyJoe]

...snip...

fosse76 and I don't usually see eye to eye on things, but I am with him 100% on this one. Very well said.